Modding the XP gain: would be grateful for input from those who've done it

[xzar_monty]

So, I'm knocking on level 20 now. I've done a bit of SSS. I haven't even visited the areas for BoW and FS. I also haven't been to Crookspur or Splintered Reef. Plenty of bounties still left. Quite a few quests not finished. No faction chosen.

 

I'm reaching the level cap way too early, in my view, and knowing myself, I'm going to lose interest as a result.

 

I think the best thing to do at this point is to start again with XP gain modded. So, for those who have done it, what kind of multipliers have you used, and what kind of results have you got? I would be extremely grateful for all input on this question.

[xzar_monty]

So, I found the following rather old discussion (link below), and I wonder: does this stuff still work, and if my next game happens to be patched at some point, will it override any changes I may have made? Does anyone know?

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/98907-modtweak-xp-gain-modifier/

[Jaget80]

Thre's a mod in steam that decrese exp gained by 30% called less experiance gained.

[mychal26]

I've been using the mod that increases the level cap (purist version). Supposedly, the enemies levels will scale beyond 20 as well (anyone confirm?).

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/266

[xzar_monty]

I can see why people might want to use that, but it's not a mod I'd go for. I'm only genuinely interested in the content Obsidian has created -- therefore, only XP gain restrictions for me. But thanks, anyway.

[gloomseeker]

I don't have enough data since I was going to start a new game with such a mod but I never got around to actually playing. 

 

Like Xzar_Monty above, I do believe reducing XP is the most seamless way to achieve this since you won't be taking chances messing with the game. 

 

Basically the only issue to be expected would be to be stuck at a low level and not being able to get through an encounter but that may actually provide an interesting challenge in the long run (most level based games are only truly challenging at the beginning). 

[xzar_monty]

Regarding your very last point: indeed. I mean, in Deadfire, the Engwithian Digsite is the killer encounter. Hardest one for me by far.

 

(My perception of it may be skewed a little by the fact that later on, there are encounters I specifically avoid if I realize I'm not ready.)

[thelee]

is it just about not gaining levels, or is it that "experience gain" becomes meaningless?

 

put another way - back in Fallout 3 the cashregister "kaching" sound of experience gain was so satisfying that when you hit level 20 (pretty easy to do in that game) and you no longer got that feedback, it was an extreme bummer. I could care less about hitting a level 21 (though DLC did raise the cap), I just wanted the feedback. Similarly, in Deadfire, I don't mind hitting level cap relatively early since I like hitting peak power with plenty of content left, but it would be nice if I still had a ticking experience meter, even if I never hit a level 21.

 

Just wondering if this is a similar sentiment.

[mychal26]

is it just about not gaining levels, or is it that "experience gain" becomes meaningless?

 

put another way - back in Fallout 3 the cashregister "kaching" sound of experience gain was so satisfying that when you hit level 20 (pretty easy to do in that game) and you no longer got that feedback, it was an extreme bummer. I could care less about hitting a level 21 (though DLC did raise the cap), I just wanted the feedback. Similarly, in Deadfire, I don't mind hitting level cap relatively early since I like hitting peak power with plenty of content left, but it would be nice if I still had a ticking experience meter, even if I never hit a level 21.

 

Just wondering if this is a similar sentiment.

I do agree with this sentiment. In D:OS 2, doing primarily the main quest content you could get around level 20, but doing everything you'll hit 21, maybe 22, and I never had an issue with the level progression. It's about constantly progressing, whether or not you hit the next level. They could of just made the level 20 exp extremely high, so maybe you'll get an extra level if you do everything, but doesn't really matter in terms of power levels, etc. It just feels like an MMO when you hit the cap really early - you're character never really grows since an arbitrary ceiling has been hit and the power of your character is not determined from intrinsic strength, but extrinsic gear. Always hated that about MMOs - your character isn't that powerful, your gear is. Edited February 6, 2019 by mychal26

[thelee]

 

is it just about not gaining levels, or is it that "experience gain" becomes meaningless?

 

put another way - back in Fallout 3 the cashregister "kaching" sound of experience gain was so satisfying that when you hit level 20 (pretty easy to do in that game) and you no longer got that feedback, it was an extreme bummer. I could care less about hitting a level 21 (though DLC did raise the cap), I just wanted the feedback. Similarly, in Deadfire, I don't mind hitting level cap relatively early since I like hitting peak power with plenty of content left, but it would be nice if I still had a ticking experience meter, even if I never hit a level 21.

 

Just wondering if this is a similar sentiment.

I do agree with this sentiment. In D:OS 2, doing primarily the main quest content you could get around level 20, but doing everything you'll hit 21, maybe 22, and I never had an issue with the level progression. It's about constantly progressing, whether or not you hit the next level. They could of just made the level 20 exp extremely high, so maybe you'll get an extra level if you do everything, but doesn't really matter in terms of power levels, etc. It just feels like an MMO when you hit the cap really early - you're character never really grows since an arbitrary ceiling has been hit and the power of your character is not determined from intrinsic strength, but extrinsic gear. Always hated that about MMOs - your character isn't that powerful, your gear is.

 

 

it might be interesting to do something like paragon levels in Diablo 3.

 

Extremely slow progress to levels 21 and up, and each level you gain past 20 grants you stacking bonus +PL. In practice, you may never get more than a couple, if that, but just having that open ended progression might be OK.

[house2fly]

It's the trickle of experience, yeah. I felt it with Fallout 3 because the kaching was the most rewarding thing in that game. I never much cared in this game or Pillars 1, but then I play in weird ways like saving the Endless Paths and bounties for after White March so I can level my soulbounds up all the way, so I might level at a different pace. But I went through all 3 Deadfire DLC at level 20 with no real issues

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Personally, what I'd like is a mod that left XP gain as current until level 12, then reduced gain after that significantly, such that you needed to do all three DLC's to hit Ukaizo at level 20. 

 

That's just me though. I feel the game is at its strongest in the level 12-16 or so range. The 18+ level powers were never reallly balance tested adequately and it still shows. Some are obscenely wonderful and some are obscenely horrible.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[gloomseeker]

I personally prefer lower levels because at that point in any game every little thing can have an impact on your success or your failure. Once you get enough skills and abilities you don't really have to worry about having the proper tools or consumables. 

 

I don't mind the level cap being relatively low, what I do mind is the absence of progression because it makes things feel pointless. 

 

I went through all the content in the first Pillars and ended up reaching the cap with plenty of content to play through and it is true that it tends to shift the focus from the character to the gear and loot while making choices less significant simply because you have gathered so much resources that you can get the stuff you want anyway. 

 

Managing the endgame is always tricky and there are some good ideas in this thread.

 

My favourite model is the open one XP model like in Fallout 2 in which the cap is so high nobody can ever get there without cheating (unless they've been playing the game continuously for the last 20 years). 

 

It's funny that some players actually enjoyed the cash register sound from Fallout 3 (and 4), that's probably the first thing I got rid of. I don't mind having some cues but that was just too much of an immersion breaker. 

[dukeisaac]

I like the mod that reduces xp by 30 %. It has really made my games much more enjoyable, along with the obligatory UI mod. That last one is heaven

[xzar_monty]

is it just about not gaining levels, or is it that "experience gain" becomes meaningless?

 

put another way - back in Fallout 3 the cashregister "kaching" sound of experience gain was so satisfying that when you hit level 20 (pretty easy to do in that game) and you no longer got that feedback, it was an extreme bummer. I could care less about hitting a level 21 (though DLC did raise the cap), I just wanted the feedback. Similarly, in Deadfire, I don't mind hitting level cap relatively early since I like hitting peak power with plenty of content left, but it would be nice if I still had a ticking experience meter, even if I never hit a level 21.

 

Just wondering if this is a similar sentiment.

 

It is partly this, yes, but this is not all it is.

 

It's a combination of

1) hitting the XP cap really quite early -- look at my OP to see where I haven't been and what I haven't done. As for the main quest line, I don't know how much is still in store, because I have no idea where it's going to lead.

2) nothing happening after the XP cap. I've been playing RPGs since the mid-eighties, and the idea of being able to go further, to develop more, has always been a key thing for me. Once that goes, quite a lot goes. (Having said that, though, I would also say that high levels are not the most enjoyable -- things tend to be most fun from approximately level 5 to level 15 or so. The early levels are quite limited, and the high levels often give you unreasonable power.)

[gloomseeker]

I like the mod that reduces xp by 30 %. It has really made my games much more enjoyable, along with the obligatory UI mod. That last one is heaven

 

Is that the Enhanced User Interface mod? 

 

I've been wary of adding this mod because I didn't want to take chances and break things (especially considering turn based mode is not final yet). 

 

By the way which mod have you been using to lower the XP? Is it Deadly Deadfire? 

 

There is a thread with instructions regarding the changes needed to be made to edit XP values:

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/98907-modtweak-xp-gain-modifier/

 

50% may be a bit steep but if it is playable (I'm thinking about the early fights) the good thing is that it will make reaching the level cap take a bit longer which can't possibly be a bad thing. 

[xzar_monty]

I also wouldn't want to use a mod as such, having had problems with them before. The suggestions given in the thread you bring up above seem clear enough. I hope they work, too.

Edited February 7, 2019 by xzar_monty

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

I also wouldn't want to use a mod as such, having had problems with them before. The suggestions given in the thread you bring up above seem clear enough. I hope they work, too.

The game is pretty mod friendly overall and it's hard for a mod to break things.

 

The Enhanced User Interface mod is its own separate thing and just changes the UI so you can uninstall and revert it no problem.

 

Less Exp mod is also distinct (I think it's part of the "Deadly Deadfire" package but you can download it independently). I generally install it around level 13.

[Harpagornis]

Reworking the XP tables should be no big deal so all we need are some concrete XP numbers for each level. Go, go, go!

 

Beside XP reduction we are also experimenting with increased enemy damage and lower player damage which so far is a lot of fun too!

Edited February 7, 2019 by Harpagornis