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If you love the Tactician subclass as much as I do (Main Character Helwalker Tactician) then I highly recommend having a Witch in your party. Probably the best way to apply Flanked to all enemies at once is with Phantom Foes. This works incredibly well with the Barbarian Spirit Frenzy because Spirit Frenzy applies Staggered when scoring a hit with an attack (not weapon attack!) this includes being hit by Phantom Foes. This is basically one massive Debuff that that Flanks every enemy on the screen as well as prevents them from Engaging/Flanking instantly triggering Brilliant Tactician. As an added bonus it Debuffs Fort defense which is great for Fighter abilities, Cipher's Detonate and Barbarians with Brute Force. 

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Best if it's a Beguiler because he also fills his focus from recasting it multiple times to make sure that really everybody got hit by Phantom Foes. Casting Phantom Foes out of stealth also fills focus.

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Definitely, Phantom Foes is a must if you have a party with tacticians. Otherwise enemy could have immunity vs perception afflictions and what ya gonna do?

 


And there is one more thing about tacticians. It's common sense, but not necessary obvious:

- Brilliant provides resources on: 0s, 6s, 12s, 18s, and so on.

- i.e. the interval is kinda big

- so, once you qualify for Brilliant, you can try to self inflict the Flanked status and get rid of it immediately. And if you can repeat it faster than once in 6s - then you will get resources faster as well.

 

> My first idea was to use Sparkcrackers on yourself, since it's a DoT that ticks once per second. Unfortunately it has a fixed duration of 1s.

 

> Another idea is to use Blunderbuss modal. For example you have 5 tacticians/x, and 1 of them is using blunderbuss and Disciplined Strikes after every shot. So if he performs a shot every 3s, theoretically your party will have Brilliant effectively ticking every 3s.

In practice though there is a bug currently (more about it: here), and blunderbusser won't get Brilliant. But the others, yes, indeed are getting resources every 3s in this scenario.

 

> Another idea would be to use a monk (with a lot of duration decreasing effects) that stands in Chillfog. It could even be a Forbidden Fist (but that's not the point). The idea is to self-inflict flanked every 3s or even more often if possible, and immediately get rid of it, in order to make Brilliant tick from the start again.

Edited by MaxQuest
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Nice idea, but lots of tedium for faster resource gain - or not?


Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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^ I think the variant with blunderbuss could be partially automated.

 

E.g. you noticed that everyone got Brilliant inspiration.

And if team has enough resources, you do nothing.

But if they are low on guile/zeal/etc, you turn the blunderbuss modal on.

 

Just set a behavior: that when disoriented use Discipline Strikes.

 

So there are 3 questions:

1). how often will you need this?

2). how fast can you shoot with blunderbuss?

3). when will this bug get fixed? (because atm the blunderbusser doesn't receive Brilliant back, and thus this turbo-mode is limited by his discipline' and benefits his team mates but not himself).

 

 

Regarding 1): I'd say there are 3 types of fightes in terms of duration:

- under 30s - that's like 60% of fights for a well-built party. So starting resources + 3-4 from "basic" Brilliant will be enough.

- around 1 minute - that's bounties, steel clads and fights that you take while underleveled because your want some specific item to drop. If you use 1 resource every 3s, you would want to have 20+ guile/discipline/etc, or prepare for conservating and auto-attacking.

- attrition fights - e.g. Neryscirlas, megabosses. These are the fights where "turbo" Brilliant could be most useful. And these fights are tedious any way.

Edited by MaxQuest

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Not on Turn-Based Mode.  You can trigger Brilliance by simply moving in many cases :p

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If you set yourself up with a flanking-immune weapon in one set and get into a situation where you're flankable, will swapping weapons give you the 0s tick at will?

 

If the bug gets fixed, it's worth noting that Wizards get a .4s cast, 0 recovery Perception inspiration at PL 1. So a Tactician Battlemage should be able to get back Discipline only a bit slower than it can get back spells.

 

How does standing in a Chillfog work in turn-based? Could you get two ticks/turn (that is, you start the turn with an affliction, remove it to get one tick, get another tick at the start of your turn before afflictions are applied, then get the affliction applied to repeat the process)? I guess the Blunderbuss version probably solves the ordering here if the bug is fixed (since you're applying the affliction with your action).

Edited by MountainTiger

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If you set yourself up with a flanking-immune weapon in one set and get into a situation where you're flankable, will swapping weapons give you the 0s tick at will?

If you are sandwich-flanked by two enemies - yeah, it should.

It's not instant though, i.e. it looks like the game updates flanked status once per 1.5s, and sometimes you have to wiggle in place a bit.

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Afflictions get cleared pretty often in TB- Enemies tend to clear afflictions on their turn, and let enemies lose and reapply the flanked status.

 

Sometimes you can set up a situation where your tactician can reapply flanked simply by moving in/out of engagement- restoring you to full resources. I haven't worked out the perfect setup for this... it has happened often enough over the last week I haven't needed to.

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> My first idea was to use Sparkcrackers on yourself, since it's a DoT that ticks once per second. Unfortunately it has a fixed duration of 1s.

I think this was a stealth nerf in 4.1. It used to tick more than once. I noticed this in my current run where I was using it on a streetfighter. Went from being able to be really easy to trigger Distracted to slightly harder (at least I don't have to bother with trying to stand still anymore if the first tick misses).

 

That being said, Rokowa's Finger's sparkcrackers effect still makes multiple attempts. (This is why I think it was a specific nerf to sparkcrackers and not some incidental bug fix, because they forgot about rokowa's fingers's identifical effect.)

Edited by thelee
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Totally OT:

That's something I always wondered (also in times of PoE): when an item had/has a spell- or ability-binding (like for example Girdle of the Driving Wave had Knockdown, Rokowa's Fingers have "Sparkcrackers", Flames of Fair Rhian had Fireballs and so on) it seems to be a (code-)copy of the original ability, not the ability/spell/effect itself. Why would you do this? Whenever you alter the original effect you'll have to search for all the copies and alter them, too (or simply forget). Afaik Knockdown from the Girdle is still a Primary attack in PoE while the FIghter's version turned into a Full Attack.

 

Does anybody know if there's a good reason for this kind of implementation? Since it returned for Deadfire...

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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That's interesting...

 

I can't check ingame atm, nor have gamedatabundles from 4.1.0. But do have those from 4.0.0 beta.

 

And both Bomb_Sparkcrackers_Ability and Skillful_Dodger_Ability (from Rokowa's Fingers) point to the same Bomb_Sparkcrackers_Ability_AoEPrimary, which has 1s PulseIntervalRate and 1s Duration:

 

 

 

{
  "$type": "Game.GameData.AttackPulsedAOEGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
  "DebugName": "Bomb_Sparkcrackers_Ability_AoEPrimary",
  "ID": "c3a666da-0d6f-4efd-98b4-0023f105b956",
  "Components": [
      {
          "$type": "Game.GameData.AttackBaseComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
          "KeywordsIDs": [
              "94e6077c-dbb7-44d7-8c30-ff4984bfeff7",
              "f0dbb330-1b06-4175-8ce4-efe790b99213"
          ],
          "AttackDistance": 8,
          "MinAttackDistance": 0,
          "AttackVariationID": "97969269-856b-478e-83ff-f752f50cc0a1",
          "UseParentEquippableHand": "false",
          "CastSpeedID": "eacb53e3-6eb5-422a-92ca-99cc883ae4a9",
          "RecoveryTimeID": "566840d9-1561-4243-8ca7-889df9869847",
          "OverrideTacticalActionType": "None",
          "ImpactDelay": 0,
          "ForcedTarget": "None",
          "AffectedTargetType": "All",
          "AffectedTargetConditional": {
              "Conditional": {
                  "Operator": 0,
                  "Components": []
              }
          },
          "AffectedTargetDeathState": "Alive",
          "HostilityOverride": "Default",
          "PushDistance": 0,
          "FaceTarget": "true",
          "AccuracyBonus": 0,
          "PenetrationRating": 7,
          "DamageData": {
              "DamageType": "None",
              "AlternateDamageType": "None",
              "Minimum": 0,
              "Maximum": 0,
              "DamageProcs": []
          },
          "Require****Object": "false",
          "StatusEffectKeywordsIDs": [],
          "StatusEffectsIDs": [
              "96e95d0d-3e97-441a-b06d-40cb44d3f938"
          ],
          "RandomizeStatusEffect": "false",
          "CanGraze": "false",
          "CanCrit": "true",
          "DefendedBy": "Deflect",
          "AfflictionsDefendedBy": "Will",
          "AfflictionApplicationModifier": "None",
          "SubstituteHitVisualEffect": "",
          "VisualEffects": [
              {
                  "VisualEffect": "prefabs/effects/items/bombs/fx_bomb_noisemaker_hand.prefab",
                  "AttachPoint": "RightWeapon",
                  "AttachObject": "Caster",
                  "AttachMode": "Attach",
                  "MeshType": "None",
                  "Event": "OnAnimEvent",
                  "AnimEventID": 0,
                  "Loop": "true",
                  "Scale": "false"
              },
              {
                  "VisualEffect": "prefabs/effects/items/bombs/fx_bomb_noisemaker_aoe.prefab",
                  "AttachPoint": "Ground",
                  "AttachObject": "Target",
                  "AttachMode": "Position",
                  "MeshType": "None",
                  "Event": "OnImpact",
                  "AnimEventID": 0,
                  "Loop": "true",
                  "Scale": "false"
              }
          ],
          "AttackOnImpactID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
          "ExtraAttackID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
          "LaunchBone": "RightWeapon",
          "HitBone": "Ground",
          "OnHitShakeDuration": "None",
          "OnHitShakeStrength": "None",
          "NoiseLevelID": "82bc1ce9-3a81-41ca-a61a-cc1f73a53de7",
          "AllReactNoise": "true",
          "InterruptsOn": "None",
          "InterruptType": "Normal",
          "TargetAngle": 0,
          "ApplyOnceOnly": "false",
          "PathsToTarget": "true",
          "HideFromCombatLog": "false",
          "AdditionalAttackOnTooltip": "false",
          "DoesNotApplyDamage": "false",
          "TreatAsWeapon": "false",
          "BounceData": {
              "Bounces": 0,
              "Multiplier": 0.5,
              "Range": 10,
              "InRangeOrder": "false",
              "NoRepeatTargets": "false",
              "AlwaysBounceAtEnemies": "false",
              "Delay": 0,
              "NeverBounce": "false"
          },
          "AttackValidityConditional": {
              "Conditional": {
                  "Operator": 0,
                  "Components": []
              }
          }
      },
      {
          "$type": "Game.GameData.AttackAOEComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
          "BlastSize": "Small",
          "BlastRadiusOverride": 1.5,
          "DamageAngle": 360,
          "ExcludePrimaryTarget": "false",
          "IgnoreParentTarget": "false",
          "ExcludeSelf": "false",
          "BlastPhysicsForce": 100,
          "PushFromCaster": "false"
      },
      {
          "$type": "Game.GameData.AttackRangedComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
          "LaunchAttackOnCollision": "true",
          "ProjectileCount": 1,
          "IgnoreMagicDefense": "false",
          "ProjectileConeAngle": 145,
          "ProjectilePrefab": "prefabs/projectiles/items/fx_bomb_noisemaker_projectile.prefab",
          "IsMultiHit": "false",
          "MultiHitTravelDist": 10,
          "MultiHitMaxHits": 0,
          "LaunchSource": "Caster",
          "LaunchOffset": {
              "x": 0,
              "y": 0,
              "z": 0
          },
          "LaunchOffsetRandom": {
              "x": 0,
              "y": 0,
              "z": 0
          }
      },
      {
          "$type": "Game.GameData.AttackPulsedAOEComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
          "Duration": 1,
          "PulseIntervalRate": 1,
          "OneValidTargetPerPulse": "false",
          "PulsedVisualEffect": "",
          "LingerVisualEffect": "prefabs/effects/items/bombs/fx_bomb_sparkcrackers_pulse.prefab",
          "LingerEffectAttachMode": "Attach",
          "LingerEffectAttachPoint": "Ground",
          "Scale": "true"
      }
  ]
}

 

 

So in 4.0.0 beta they were the same, and both had 1s duration...

And tbh 1s - looks kinda weird for a "periodic" effect.

 

P.S. Here's the full pastebin for them (in 4.0.0 beta):

- rokowa's fingers: link

- sparkcrackers: link

Edited by MaxQuest

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This may be obvious to others, but I didn't think about it until I saw it: Mule Kick breaks Flanked. So against big single enemies (I was fighting the Memory Hoarder), you can get pretty quick Brilliant toggling by just spamming that (my script is just Intellect inspiration+at least 5 Discipline).

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^ Does it remove flanked even if it was applied via Phantom Foes?

 

But hey, it's a great tip even if it works with just sandwich flanking))

4 tacticians, each use Mule Kick in a sequence, and every time all of them get +1 to resources. Nice)

 

P.S. But it doesn't work vs all enemies right? I've never seen Rathun being launched in the sky.

Edited by MaxQuest

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That's interesting...

 

I can't check ingame atm, nor have gamedatabundles from 4.1.0. But do have those from 4.0.0 beta.

 

And both Bomb_Sparkcrackers_Ability and Skillful_Dodger_Ability (from Rokowa's Fingers) point to the same Bomb_Sparkcrackers_Ability_AoEPrimary, which has 1s PulseIntervalRate and 1s Duration:

 

 

 

{
  "$type": "Game.GameData.AttackPulsedAOEGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
  "DebugName": "Bomb_Sparkcrackers_Ability_AoEPrimary",
  "ID": "c3a666da-0d6f-4efd-98b4-0023f105b956",
  "Components": [
      {
          "$type": "Game.GameData.AttackBaseComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
          "KeywordsIDs": [
              "94e6077c-dbb7-44d7-8c30-ff4984bfeff7",
              "f0dbb330-1b06-4175-8ce4-efe790b99213"
          ],
          "AttackDistance": 8,
          "MinAttackDistance": 0,
          "AttackVariationID": "97969269-856b-478e-83ff-f752f50cc0a1",
          "UseParentEquippableHand": "false",
          "CastSpeedID": "eacb53e3-6eb5-422a-92ca-99cc883ae4a9",
          "RecoveryTimeID": "566840d9-1561-4243-8ca7-889df9869847",
          "OverrideTacticalActionType": "None",
          "ImpactDelay": 0,
          "ForcedTarget": "None",
          "AffectedTargetType": "All",
          "AffectedTargetConditional": {
              "Conditional": {
                  "Operator": 0,
                  "Components": []
              }
          },
          "AffectedTargetDeathState": "Alive",
          "HostilityOverride": "Default",
          "PushDistance": 0,
          "FaceTarget": "true",
          "AccuracyBonus": 0,
          "PenetrationRating": 7,
          "DamageData": {
              "DamageType": "None",
              "AlternateDamageType": "None",
              "Minimum": 0,
              "Maximum": 0,
              "DamageProcs": []
          },
          "Require****Object": "false",
          "StatusEffectKeywordsIDs": [],
          "StatusEffectsIDs": [
              "96e95d0d-3e97-441a-b06d-40cb44d3f938"
          ],
          "RandomizeStatusEffect": "false",
          "CanGraze": "false",
          "CanCrit": "true",
          "DefendedBy": "Deflect",
          "AfflictionsDefendedBy": "Will",
          "AfflictionApplicationModifier": "None",
          "SubstituteHitVisualEffect": "",
          "VisualEffects": [
              {
                  "VisualEffect": "prefabs/effects/items/bombs/fx_bomb_noisemaker_hand.prefab",
                  "AttachPoint": "RightWeapon",
                  "AttachObject": "Caster",
                  "AttachMode": "Attach",
                  "MeshType": "None",
                  "Event": "OnAnimEvent",
                  "AnimEventID": 0,
                  "Loop": "true",
                  "Scale": "false"
              },
              {
                  "VisualEffect": "prefabs/effects/items/bombs/fx_bomb_noisemaker_aoe.prefab",
                  "AttachPoint": "Ground",
                  "AttachObject": "Target",
                  "AttachMode": "Position",
                  "MeshType": "None",
                  "Event": "OnImpact",
                  "AnimEventID": 0,
                  "Loop": "true",
                  "Scale": "false"
              }
          ],
          "AttackOnImpactID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
          "ExtraAttackID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
          "LaunchBone": "RightWeapon",
          "HitBone": "Ground",
          "OnHitShakeDuration": "None",
          "OnHitShakeStrength": "None",
          "NoiseLevelID": "82bc1ce9-3a81-41ca-a61a-cc1f73a53de7",
          "AllReactNoise": "true",
          "InterruptsOn": "None",
          "InterruptType": "Normal",
          "TargetAngle": 0,
          "ApplyOnceOnly": "false",
          "PathsToTarget": "true",
          "HideFromCombatLog": "false",
          "AdditionalAttackOnTooltip": "false",
          "DoesNotApplyDamage": "false",
          "TreatAsWeapon": "false",
          "BounceData": {
              "Bounces": 0,
              "Multiplier": 0.5,
              "Range": 10,
              "InRangeOrder": "false",
              "NoRepeatTargets": "false",
              "AlwaysBounceAtEnemies": "false",
              "Delay": 0,
              "NeverBounce": "false"
          },
          "AttackValidityConditional": {
              "Conditional": {
                  "Operator": 0,
                  "Components": []
              }
          }
      },
      {
          "$type": "Game.GameData.AttackAOEComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
          "BlastSize": "Small",
          "BlastRadiusOverride": 1.5,
          "DamageAngle": 360,
          "ExcludePrimaryTarget": "false",
          "IgnoreParentTarget": "false",
          "ExcludeSelf": "false",
          "BlastPhysicsForce": 100,
          "PushFromCaster": "false"
      },
      {
          "$type": "Game.GameData.AttackRangedComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
          "LaunchAttackOnCollision": "true",
          "ProjectileCount": 1,
          "IgnoreMagicDefense": "false",
          "ProjectileConeAngle": 145,
          "ProjectilePrefab": "prefabs/projectiles/items/fx_bomb_noisemaker_projectile.prefab",
          "IsMultiHit": "false",
          "MultiHitTravelDist": 10,
          "MultiHitMaxHits": 0,
          "LaunchSource": "Caster",
          "LaunchOffset": {
              "x": 0,
              "y": 0,
              "z": 0
          },
          "LaunchOffsetRandom": {
              "x": 0,
              "y": 0,
              "z": 0
          }
      },
      {
          "$type": "Game.GameData.AttackPulsedAOEComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
          "Duration": 1,
          "PulseIntervalRate": 1,
          "OneValidTargetPerPulse": "false",
          "PulsedVisualEffect": "",
          "LingerVisualEffect": "prefabs/effects/items/bombs/fx_bomb_sparkcrackers_pulse.prefab",
          "LingerEffectAttachMode": "Attach",
          "LingerEffectAttachPoint": "Ground",
          "Scale": "true"
      }
  ]
}

 

 

So in 4.0.0 beta they were the same, and both had 1s duration...

And tbh 1s - looks kinda weird for a "periodic" effect.

 

P.S. Here's the full pastebin for them (in 4.0.0 beta):

- rokowa's fingers: link

- sparkcrackers: link

 

 

i haven't been able to verify, but it might not be the ability that change, but how it scaled. when i was scratching my head trying to figure out why my streetfighter was having a harder time i seem to remember looking at the tooltip and noticing the AoE duration for sparkcrackers wasn't scaling up anymore, whereas Rokowa's was up to 1.8s from whatever. Again, memory being what it is I could be misremembering, but that was my current operating theory. it could be that at the default 1s aoe duration, the aoe expires before the periodic effect can pulse again.

Edited by thelee
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I haven't done any real testing, was just pleasantly surprised to see Brilliant toggling during the fight. My assumption is that it wouldn't work with Phantom Foes or Perception afflictions with a duration. But it should work with Persistent Distraction.

 

In terms of immunities, apparently Interrupt immunity isn't good enough (the Memory Hoarder has that), but there are probably immunes somewhere.

 

Thinking about it now, I'm a bit surprised that it worked given that Mule Kick applies Disoriented. But I guess the knock up effect (breaking targeting, including sandwich flanking) and Disoriented are applied sequentially. Disoriented also should limit how often you can get the effect-but it has a pretty short duration (8s base), and for a lot of characters stealing a tick every 2-3 cycles should be enough to bottleneck them on resource spending. But you probably can't do the multiple Tacticians in a circle thing.

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