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#101
Kilburn

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I want to like cipher but the spells are just not good enough IMO. 

 

Too bad because on paper soul whip seems strong to go along with a melee build but cipher needs something else. 

 

I didn't know about the wizard/pally combo i just jumped in and started tinkering around with different builds. 

 

Dunno, im loving devoted more and more tho, might even be stronger than paladin. 



#102
Boeroer

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While I'm not a huge cipher lover in general I recently played a Beguiler because its mechanics were altered by a patch. And before starting the playthrough I did a solo test in Port Maje - just for trying it out under harsh conditions. lvl-1 mind control in general is so powerful that it can put all cipher subclasses into the top league of usefulness. For imps you need something else, sure. Good that a cipher isn't limited to mind powers.

I can't imagine what you are trying to do with your cipher but you seem to not use him properly.

Soul Whip's bonus damage is a nice little feature that adds a little bit of weapon damage - but it's only a 20% additive damage bonus (based on weapon base damage). That alone doesn't make a decent class. Inexperienced players are often gluttons for dmg bonuses - not realizing that they are all only additive (except Power Level bonus and lashes) and based on base damage (in case of weapons it's quite low). They forget about stuff like speed (multiplicative dps increase) and intelligence (which also means multiplicative increase of dps in cases of AoE and DoTs) and many other things. Like the synergy between debuffs that target a weak defense but lower another (high) defense and further CC or hit rolls. So they take Biting Whip and go "hell yeah - so much damage" not realizing that it increases your sabre hits by a meager 1.6 additive slash dmg. So... Soul Whip/Biting Whip... yeah... cipher would also work well enough without it. Draining Whip on the other hand: +100% focus generation. This means in most cases you don't have to hit an enemy twice to cast your next power but only once. A power that has way more impact than +1.6 dmg. That's powerful.

Eyestrike: blind on lvl 1 - powerful. Grab a morning star, target their deflection and lower their fortitude and then blind even "red skulled" foes. Then go back to attacking deflection. Rinse and repeat.

Whisper of Treason: hit them with a club (attack targets deflection and lowers will) and turn them into friends afterwards. An additional body on the field! Awesome!

It seems to me so far you tactics are a bit... plain? Hence Arcane Knights work so well for you. They combine high defenses with a decent dmg output and thus can brute-force better than some other combos.

Edited by Boeroer, 14 February 2019 - 11:37 PM.

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#103
Kilburn

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While I'm not a huge cipher lover in general I recently played a Beguiler because it's mechanics were altered by a patch. And before starting the playthrough I did a solo test in Port Maje - just for trying it out under harsh conditions. lvl-1 mind control in general is so powerful that it can put all cipher subclasses into the top league of usefulness. For imps you need something else, sure. Good that a cipher isn't limited to mind powers.

I can't imagine what you are trying to do with your cipher but you seem to not use him properly.

Soul Whip's bonus damage is a nice little feature that adds a little bit of weapon damage - but it's only a 20% additive damage bonus (based on weapon base damage). That alone doesn't make a decent class. Inexperienced players are often gluttons for dmg bonuses - not realizing that they are all only additive (except Power Level bonus and lashes) and based on base damage (in case of weapons it's quite low). They forget about stuff like speed (multiplicative dps increase) and intelligence (which also means multiplicative increase of dps in cases of AoE and DoTs) and many other things. Like the synergy between debuffs that target a weak defense but lower another (high) defense and further CC or hit rolls. So they take Biting Whip and go "hell yeah - so much damage" not realizing that it increases your sabre hits by a meager 1.6 additive slash dmg. So... Soul Whip/Biting Whip... yeah... cipher would also work well enough without it. Draining Whip on the other hand: +100% focus generation. This means in most cases you don't have to hit an enemy twice to cast your next power but only once. A power that has way more impact than +1.6 dmg. That's powerful.

Eyestrike: blind on lvl 1 - powerful. Grab a morning star, target their deflection and lower their fortitude and then blind even "red skulled" foes. Then go back to attacking deflection. Rinse and repeat.

Whisper of Treason: hit them with a club (attack targets deflection and lowers will) and turn them into friends afterwards. An additional body on the field! Awesome!

It seems to me so far you tactics are a bit... plain? Hence Arcane Knights work so well for you. They combine high defenses with a decent dmg output and thus can brute-force better than some other combos.

 

 

i didnt test eyestrike. it seems fine but is it really any better than chill fog? 

 

I did test the charm a bit. what is so great about it? It's only on one guy when you're usually fighting hordes of pirates in ship combat. and the duration is short. how are you using it that makes it so good? 

 

valor echoes seemed good but once again it falls short. it needs to be able to target yourself and also last 45 seconds. 

 

i just said biting whip looks good on paper but ya it falls short like cipher always does lol. I think the +2 pen from devoted is better than biting whip alone not to mention all the other amazing passives and skills fighters can take. 

 

cipher spells are so annoying to use. 

 

arcane knight is just one build i like. i also like devoted/trickster, -10% sneak attack is a small price to pay for mirror image. and although i havnt tested it i think devoted/paladin will be the melee king for obvious reasons. 



#104
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I suppose this is not that objective. I've had Serafen with me, and I feel he pulls his weight perfectly well. Some of the cipher spells are superb. (I never pay attention to stuff like -10% because let's face it, you can beat the game with any build.)



#105
Kilburn

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I was trying to make powerful melee soul blade ciphers BTW. I think if soul annihilation was a full attack it might be viable. as it is it comes up short.  

 

 

I suppose this is not that objective. I've had Serafen with me, and I feel he pulls his weight perfectly well. Some of the cipher spells are superb. (I never pay attention to stuff like -10% because let's face it, you can beat the game with any build.)

 
 
 
 
does the difficulty fall off a cliff at higher levels? because it sure is difficult at the start if you use the regular NPCs. 
 
and the ship combat still keeps me on my toes usually at level 5. the expert captains sometimes still kill me and i need to reload quite a bit. 

Edited by Kilburn, 14 February 2019 - 11:44 PM.


#106
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While I'm not a huge cipher lover in general I recently played a Beguiler because it's mechanics were altered by a patch. And before starting the playthrough I did a solo test in Port Maje - just for trying it out under harsh conditions. lvl-1 mind control in general is so powerful that it can put all cipher subclasses into the top league of usefulness. For imps you need something else, sure. Good that a cipher isn't limited to mind powers.

I can't imagine what you are trying to do with your cipher but you seem to not use him properly.

Soul Whip's bonus damage is a nice little feature that adds a little bit of weapon damage - but it's only a 20% additive damage bonus (based on weapon base damage). That alone doesn't make a decent class. Inexperienced players are often gluttons for dmg bonuses - not realizing that they are all only additive (except Power Level bonus and lashes) and based on base damage (in case of weapons it's quite low). They forget about stuff like speed (multiplicative dps increase) and intelligence (which also means multiplicative increase of dps in cases of AoE and DoTs) and many other things. Like the synergy between debuffs that target a weak defense but lower another (high) defense and further CC or hit rolls. So they take Biting Whip and go "hell yeah - so much damage" not realizing that it increases your sabre hits by a meager 1.6 additive slash dmg. So... Soul Whip/Biting Whip... yeah... cipher would also work well enough without it. Draining Whip on the other hand: +100% focus generation. This means in most cases you don't have to hit an enemy twice to cast your next power but only once. A power that has way more impact than +1.6 dmg. That's powerful.

Eyestrike: blind on lvl 1 - powerful. Grab a morning star, target their deflection and lower their fortitude and then blind even "red skulled" foes. Then go back to attacking deflection. Rinse and repeat.

Whisper of Treason: hit them with a club (attack targets deflection and lowers will) and turn them into friends afterwards. An additional body on the field! Awesome!

It seems to me so far you tactics are a bit... plain? Hence Arcane Knights work so well for you. They combine high defenses with a decent dmg output and thus can brute-force better than some other combos.

i didnt test eyestrike. it seems fine but is it really any better than chill fog?

I did test the charm a bit. what is so great about it? It's only on one guy when you're usually fighting hordes of pirates in ship combat. and the duration is short. how are you using it that makes it so good?

valor echoes seemed good but once again it falls short. it needs to be able to target yourself and also last 45 seconds.

i just said biting whip looks good on paper but ya it falls short like cipher always does lol. I think the +2 pen from devoted is better than biting whip alone not to mention all the other amazing passives and skills fighters can take.

cipher spells are so annoying to use.

arcane knight is just one build i like. i also like devoted/trickster, -10% sneak attack is a small price to pay for mirror image. and although i havnt tested it i think devoted/paladin will be the melee king for obvious reasons.

You are power gaming and doing boarding fights? Somewhat contradicts itself. ;)

Devoted/Paladin is not really the king of anything. It can be a good balance of defense and offense though or a no-frills tank that can't be disenchanted by Arcane Dampener. King of melee combat is anything with Monk I'd say. Devoted is for players who are too lazy to switch weapon sets or can't let go of their favorite weapon. ;)
I mean if you only recently discovered PEN/AR that totally explains why you think Devoted is so good. You have to know that the malus of underpenetration is multiplicative in most cases. So if a Devoted helps you to not underpenetrate then the gain is massive, yes. But you can achieve the same without Devoted.

Whisper of Treason is great because it's like taking away an enemy while calling a summon at the same time. Obviously you shouldn't attack the charmed enemy - else it flips back immediately. But you can still apply stuff like Miasma or other debuffs that have friendly fire but don't do damage. The charmed and further debuffed enemy will distract other enemies and get shred to pieces by his former fellows. That's why it's powerful. The only drawback of Whisper of Treason is its short range. Bit it's still doable (with a bit of stealth) to charm enemies from stealth. That is very powerful. The combat starts and the party is still stealthed while the enemies attack each other. Puppet Master is even better because the range is a lot higher.
Don't forget that base duration scales with Power Level. That means that a lvl-1 power like Whisper of Treason lasts a very long time after some levels with decent INT (even more so if you are a single class Cipher which I personally value over multiclass ones).

Eyestrike is foe-only and lasts quite long for a replenishable cipher power. But the best part is that you are not limited to 2 (or 3) casts per encounter. It also doesn't take too long to cast/recover. Only 3/2 secs.

For a Soul Blade you can use Sun & Moon: it applies the raw damage with the first hit and refills focus with these second flail head. Also here don't pick Biting Whip. Pick Draining Whip. Then you can spam Soul Annihilation more often or with more damage. More effective than Biting Whip.

Edited by Boeroer, 15 February 2019 - 12:01 AM.


#107
xzar_monty

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I was trying to make powerful melee soul blade ciphers BTW. I think if soul annihilation was a full attack it might be viable. as it is it comes up short.  

 

 

I suppose this is not that objective. I've had Serafen with me, and I feel he pulls his weight perfectly well. Some of the cipher spells are superb. (I never pay attention to stuff like -10% because let's face it, you can beat the game with any build.)

 
does the difficulty fall off a cliff at higher levels? because it sure is difficult at the start if you use the regular NPCs. 
 
and the ship combat still keeps me on my toes usually at level 5. the expert captains sometimes still kill me and i need to reload quite a bit.

 

Yes it very much does. What difficulty level do you use? You might turn it down one notch. I'm quite happy with Veteran myself (most of the time).

 

Simply avoid ship combat that early on. You can outrun other ships.



#108
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You can totally sink all ships (maybe not the Deck) with the sloop and Iron Thunderer cannons right from the start (if you pick Berath's Blessing for the expert crewmen). Because char level has zero impact on ship fights. Without the Blessing you just sink some easy ships (Diccla, Beggar Winfrud etc.) and you are there as well. Grab high quality gear without a fight while sparing time and powergame on! ;)

Edited by Boeroer, 15 February 2019 - 12:06 AM.


#109
xzar_monty

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Ha! I still haven't fired my cannons once in the entire game. :no:



#110
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Assassin/Beguiler was my most fun build to play and opening from stealth with 'Whispers of treason' was my favourite d†ck move.  Focus I had at the start was enough for two whispers and a truckload of entertainment as a result.  :biggrin:


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#111
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I'm def on board with Cipher. They have amazing crowd control and buffs/debuffs. Mental Binding should be a PL7 spell. Plus they are fit in perfectly with the story. What elevates them imho is strength in both single and multi class builds.

Edited by Verde, 15 February 2019 - 05:50 AM.


#112
MountainTiger

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I've been unimpressed by Mental Binding in Deadfire. It was one of my favorite Cipher spells in the first game, but Paralyze just isn't what it used to be.



#113
Kilburn

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While I'm not a huge cipher lover in general I recently played a Beguiler because it's mechanics were altered by a patch. And before starting the playthrough I did a solo test in Port Maje - just for trying it out under harsh conditions. lvl-1 mind control in general is so powerful that it can put all cipher subclasses into the top league of usefulness. For imps you need something else, sure. Good that a cipher isn't limited to mind powers.

I can't imagine what you are trying to do with your cipher but you seem to not use him properly.

Soul Whip's bonus damage is a nice little feature that adds a little bit of weapon damage - but it's only a 20% additive damage bonus (based on weapon base damage). That alone doesn't make a decent class. Inexperienced players are often gluttons for dmg bonuses - not realizing that they are all only additive (except Power Level bonus and lashes) and based on base damage (in case of weapons it's quite low). They forget about stuff like speed (multiplicative dps increase) and intelligence (which also means multiplicative increase of dps in cases of AoE and DoTs) and many other things. Like the synergy between debuffs that target a weak defense but lower another (high) defense and further CC or hit rolls. So they take Biting Whip and go "hell yeah - so much damage" not realizing that it increases your sabre hits by a meager 1.6 additive slash dmg. So... Soul Whip/Biting Whip... yeah... cipher would also work well enough without it. Draining Whip on the other hand: +100% focus generation. This means in most cases you don't have to hit an enemy twice to cast your next power but only once. A power that has way more impact than +1.6 dmg. That's powerful.

Eyestrike: blind on lvl 1 - powerful. Grab a morning star, target their deflection and lower their fortitude and then blind even "red skulled" foes. Then go back to attacking deflection. Rinse and repeat.

Whisper of Treason: hit them with a club (attack targets deflection and lowers will) and turn them into friends afterwards. An additional body on the field! Awesome!

It seems to me so far you tactics are a bit... plain? Hence Arcane Knights work so well for you. They combine high defenses with a decent dmg output and thus can brute-force better than some other combos.

i didnt test eyestrike. it seems fine but is it really any better than chill fog?

I did test the charm a bit. what is so great about it? It's only on one guy when you're usually fighting hordes of pirates in ship combat. and the duration is short. how are you using it that makes it so good?

valor echoes seemed good but once again it falls short. it needs to be able to target yourself and also last 45 seconds.

i just said biting whip looks good on paper but ya it falls short like cipher always does lol. I think the +2 pen from devoted is better than biting whip alone not to mention all the other amazing passives and skills fighters can take.

cipher spells are so annoying to use.

arcane knight is just one build i like. i also like devoted/trickster, -10% sneak attack is a small price to pay for mirror image. and although i havnt tested it i think devoted/paladin will be the melee king for obvious reasons.

You are power gaming and doing boarding fights? Somewhat contradicts itself. ;)

Devoted/Paladin is not really the king of anything. It can be a good balance of defense and offense though or a no-frills tank that can't be disenchanted by Arcane Dampener. King of melee combat is anything with Monk I'd say. Devoted is for players who are too lazy to switch weapon sets or can't let go of their favorite weapon. ;)
I mean if you only recently discovered PEN/AR that totally explains why you think Devoted is so good. You have to know that the malus of underpenetration is multiplicative in most cases. So if a Devoted helps you to not underpenetrate then the gain is massive, yes. But you can achieve the same without Devoted.

Whisper of Treason is great because it's like taking away an enemy while calling a summon at the same time. Obviously you shouldn't attack the charmed enemy - else it flips back immediately. But you can still apply stuff like Miasma or other debuffs that have friendly fire but don't do damage. The charmed and further debuffed enemy will distract other enemies and get shred to pieces by his former fellows. That's why it's powerful. The only drawback of Whisper of Treason is its short range. Bit it's still doable (with a bit of stealth) to charm enemies from stealth. That is very powerful. The combat starts and the party is still stealthed while the enemies attack each other. Puppet Master is even better because the range is a lot higher.
Don't forget that base duration scales with Power Level. That means that a lvl-1 power like Whisper of Treason lasts a very long time after some levels with decent INT (even more so if you are a single class Cipher which I personally value over multiclass ones).

Eyestrike is foe-only and lasts quite long for a replenishable cipher power. But the best part is that you are not limited to 2 (or 3) casts per encounter. It also doesn't take too long to cast/recover. Only 3/2 secs.

For a Soul Blade you can use Sun & Moon: it applies the raw damage with the first hit and refills focus with these second flail head. Also here don't pick Biting Whip. Pick Draining Whip. Then you can spam Soul Annihilation more often or with more damage. More effective than Biting Whip.

 

 

 

I was farming loot with the board fights and upgrading everything to superb. 

 

9 base penetration sabers seems very good. with the modal and good weapons you're pushing 14 or 15 pen before expose vulnerability or other buffs. wouldn't you start overpening everything?? and fighter has lots of other great passive abilities. 

 

what is good about monk? does it shine late game? because nothing is jumping out at me when i look at the class. 

 

wouldn't sun and moon result in a very weak soul annihilation though? I was thinking the best way to deliver it must be a two handed weapon but i could be wrong. 


Edited by Kilburn, 15 February 2019 - 09:13 AM.


#114
xzar_monty

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While I'm not a huge cipher lover in general I recently played a Beguiler because it's mechanics were altered by a patch. And before starting the playthrough I did a solo test in Port Maje - just for trying it out under harsh conditions. lvl-1 mind control in general is so powerful that it can put all cipher subclasses into the top league of usefulness. For imps you need something else, sure. Good that a cipher isn't limited to mind powers.

I can't imagine what you are trying to do with your cipher but you seem to not use him properly.

Soul Whip's bonus damage is a nice little feature that adds a little bit of weapon damage - but it's only a 20% additive damage bonus (based on weapon base damage). That alone doesn't make a decent class. Inexperienced players are often gluttons for dmg bonuses - not realizing that they are all only additive (except Power Level bonus and lashes) and based on base damage (in case of weapons it's quite low). They forget about stuff like speed (multiplicative dps increase) and intelligence (which also means multiplicative increase of dps in cases of AoE and DoTs) and many other things. Like the synergy between debuffs that target a weak defense but lower another (high) defense and further CC or hit rolls. So they take Biting Whip and go "hell yeah - so much damage" not realizing that it increases your sabre hits by a meager 1.6 additive slash dmg. So... Soul Whip/Biting Whip... yeah... cipher would also work well enough without it. Draining Whip on the other hand: +100% focus generation. This means in most cases you don't have to hit an enemy twice to cast your next power but only once. A power that has way more impact than +1.6 dmg. That's powerful.

Eyestrike: blind on lvl 1 - powerful. Grab a morning star, target their deflection and lower their fortitude and then blind even "red skulled" foes. Then go back to attacking deflection. Rinse and repeat.

Whisper of Treason: hit them with a club (attack targets deflection and lowers will) and turn them into friends afterwards. An additional body on the field! Awesome!

It seems to me so far you tactics are a bit... plain? Hence Arcane Knights work so well for you. They combine high defenses with a decent dmg output and thus can brute-force better than some other combos.

i didnt test eyestrike. it seems fine but is it really any better than chill fog?

I did test the charm a bit. what is so great about it? It's only on one guy when you're usually fighting hordes of pirates in ship combat. and the duration is short. how are you using it that makes it so good?

valor echoes seemed good but once again it falls short. it needs to be able to target yourself and also last 45 seconds.

i just said biting whip looks good on paper but ya it falls short like cipher always does lol. I think the +2 pen from devoted is better than biting whip alone not to mention all the other amazing passives and skills fighters can take.

cipher spells are so annoying to use.

arcane knight is just one build i like. i also like devoted/trickster, -10% sneak attack is a small price to pay for mirror image. and although i havnt tested it i think devoted/paladin will be the melee king for obvious reasons.

You are power gaming and doing boarding fights? Somewhat contradicts itself. ;)

Devoted/Paladin is not really the king of anything. It can be a good balance of defense and offense though or a no-frills tank that can't be disenchanted by Arcane Dampener. King of melee combat is anything with Monk I'd say. Devoted is for players who are too lazy to switch weapon sets or can't let go of their favorite weapon. ;)
I mean if you only recently discovered PEN/AR that totally explains why you think Devoted is so good. You have to know that the malus of underpenetration is multiplicative in most cases. So if a Devoted helps you to not underpenetrate then the gain is massive, yes. But you can achieve the same without Devoted.

Whisper of Treason is great because it's like taking away an enemy while calling a summon at the same time. Obviously you shouldn't attack the charmed enemy - else it flips back immediately. But you can still apply stuff like Miasma or other debuffs that have friendly fire but don't do damage. The charmed and further debuffed enemy will distract other enemies and get shred to pieces by his former fellows. That's why it's powerful. The only drawback of Whisper of Treason is its short range. Bit it's still doable (with a bit of stealth) to charm enemies from stealth. That is very powerful. The combat starts and the party is still stealthed while the enemies attack each other. Puppet Master is even better because the range is a lot higher.
Don't forget that base duration scales with Power Level. That means that a lvl-1 power like Whisper of Treason lasts a very long time after some levels with decent INT (even more so if you are a single class Cipher which I personally value over multiclass ones).

Eyestrike is foe-only and lasts quite long for a replenishable cipher power. But the best part is that you are not limited to 2 (or 3) casts per encounter. It also doesn't take too long to cast/recover. Only 3/2 secs.

For a Soul Blade you can use Sun & Moon: it applies the raw damage with the first hit and refills focus with these second flail head. Also here don't pick Biting Whip. Pick Draining Whip. Then you can spam Soul Annihilation more often or with more damage. More effective than Biting Whip.

 


what is good about monk?

 

In a word, everything. In PoE, monk was probably the most powerful class (not going to argue about this; I don't powergame and I don't calculate stuff, I just found monk unbelievably strong), and things haven't changed that much in Deadfire. Unarmed monk, for instance, basically never has problems with penetration. Hits twice as often as most other classes. Etc.



#115
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You get basically the same loot when sinking ships. Plus you can get much higher quality than when boarding (sice it's no big problem to sink a ship with lvl-16 chars on it as lvl-5 MC - but nigh impossible to win such a boarding fight).

Soul Annihilation's raw damage does not depend on weapon base damage. It's mostly a flat bonus. Thus it doesn't matter that much if you deliver it with a low dmg hit or a two hander. So Sun and Moon is one of the best weapons for Soul Blade. Also single handed Rapier wit modal is a good way to apply Soul Annihilation in the early game since you nearly can't miss with it (+37 ACC).

Monk have some of the best active abilities which you can spam endlessly with the right setup. And they work against single targets as well as multiple ones (Raised Torment). They also pair very well with rogues since then you'll combine high dmg bonuses with multiplicative lash damage. A single class Monk is one of the best late game options for melee because his high level abilities Resonant Touch and Whispers of the Wind or Inner Death are very good. But they also start very strong. Having a replenishable resource is a big advantage.

Edited by Boeroer, 15 February 2019 - 09:29 AM.


#116
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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I want to like cipher but the spells are just not good enough IMO. 

 

Too bad because on paper soul whip seems strong to go along with a melee build but cipher needs something else. 

 

I didn't know about the wizard/pally combo i just jumped in and started tinkering around with different builds. 

 

Dunno, im loving devoted more and more tho, might even be stronger than paladin. 

 

 

I'm into Seeker, Slayer, Survivor now with a full-PotD run as an Ascendant cipher (they're my thing) and the game is fully beatable with the class even on PotD.

 

That said the class abilities peak at around level 7. The level 8 Powers are nice-but-underwhelming (time parasite is decent in RTWP; defensive mindweb can be useful if you build your entire party around it). The level 9 powers are just broken though -- they clearly never went through significant play or balance testing. Driving echoes is both overkill (in that it breaks the game's penetration mechanic with a ridiculously overblown bonus) and somewhat annoying to use (because it's single target; I'd change it to +4 Pen party-wide buff); Haunting Chains is literally worse in every way than a fifth-level Wizard AoE; Death of 1,000 cuts seems good until you realize it's ljust (****ty disintegrate + ****ty combusting wounds element) and mechanically inferior to both or either.  The passives aren't much better; Shared Nightmare is mostly gratuitous given that cipher aoe's generally have ample range anyway; protective soul might be good for a barbaric retaliation build or something but is gonna be relatively useless as a 9th level power for a single class. 

 

That said the lower level powers are still dandy and the mechanics of the Ascendant are fun and going single class gets you playing with even the lower level toys sooner, so it's not a particularly bad choice. It's just not the optimal choice like it was in the first game. 



#117
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What? :blink: 
 
Reaping Knives (so good for Soul Blade & also Ascendant), Time Parasite (stacks! I get up to 175% bonus), Driving Echoes (put on a caster) and Death of 1000 Cuts (best bosskiller) are all really great. But even more so Shared Nightmare (paired with Reaping Knives). With 200 Focus you'll have +200% AoE size. 
 
Check out my Amplified Wave with 230 Focus:  :w00t:
shared_nightmare.png?dl=1

Or my Whispers of the Endless Paths:

shared_nightmare_2.png?dl=1


Edited by Boeroer, 15 February 2019 - 01:44 PM.

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#118
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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What? :blink: 
 
Reaping Knives (so good for Soul Blade & also Ascendant), Time Parasite (stacks! I get up to 175% bonus), Driving Echoes (put on a caster) and Death of 1000 Cuts (best bosskiller) are all really great. But even more so Shared Nightmare (paired with Reaping Knives). With 200 Focus you'll have +200% AoE size. 
 

 

 

Yeah, but amplified wave (note, that's a level 6 ability -- I said those were great!) already has a huge radius. It's enough to take on the whole battlefield even without the benefits of Shared Nightmares, at least if you have decent intelligence (which you should if you're a single classed cipher). Main benefit of SN is if you want to turn Eyestrike into Phantom Foes, or amplify the AoE radius of specific weapons in niche builds. Most Cipher powers already have more AoE than they really need even without it.

 

Reaping Knives might be great with the right build, sure.  Time Parasite is good but you get diminishing returns from increasing action speed bonuses in deadfire, so it's not as good as it was in the first game just because of how that's changed mechanically. 

 

Driving Echoes is probably too good -- it trivializes the whole armor penetration system. It's also balanced badly, but in the other direction people don't usually complain about. It' should probably be +3 or +4 penetration max, but a party buff (just because at that point you're running out of time to cast different buffs ).  

 

1,000 Cuts seems nice at first but mathematically, in a party setting, it's going to be superseded almost every time by Combusting Wounds, because CW re-triggers additional damage off of every wound, whereas 10k only triggers additional DoT duration off of specific "shred" keyword attacks (i.e., Mind Blades or Disintegrate, since Ectopsychic Echo and Amplified Wave are both Echo keyword). It's basically just Disintegrate's expansion pack. Not bad, but far from the best boss killer in the game, unless you're talking specifically fire-damage-immune enemies. 

 

I mean, don't get me wrong, the only cipher power that right now I think is genuinely *bad* is Haunting Chains (*maybe* screaming souls given Cipher's limited power selections). Everything else I can at least conceive a build that could get some worthwhile mileage out of it, HC though just make a wizard instead.


Edited by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy, 15 February 2019 - 02:29 PM.


#119
Boeroer

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Time Parasite is good but you get diminishing returns from increasing action speed bonuses in deadfire.


Actually, you do not. You get linear returns. And especially not with Time Parasite - since it doesn't seem to add multiple separate speed boost instances that get multiplied but instead it seems to sum those up and then applies them in a big chunk. I didn't mean that it stacks if you cast it repeatedly, but if you cast it once and it jumps so often (and that stacks) that I got +175% attack speed (in one chunk!) from one cast several times when enemies where standing densely and were debuffed properly before. I didn't analyze this too much but... try to cast with that 175% speed boost (says tooltip) while ascended... whooha... :)

If Driving Echoes is too good the class can't peak at PL7 though, can it? ;)

Combusting Wounds is nice but rel. weak against most bosses with high AR. It then often suffers from -75% (double inverted) dmg reduction which results in puny dmg ticks. I tested Death of 1000 Cuts quite excessively to get the most out of it and it's def. better suited to kill a high AR/high RES boss than Disintegration or CW is (except Neriscyrlas maybe since she's vulnerable to fire).

Disintegration is not that good on high RES enemies (most bosses have very high RES) since its duration gets reduced a lot by the high RES. Even more so when you only graze. THen it's not worth the focus at all. Secondly its dps is not that good to begin with.

Death of 1000 Cuts, once applied, does good dps once you get an Antipathetic Field going. It's 31 raw base dmg per second then (on top of the raw DoT ticks). If you have two ciphers it's 62 raw per second and so on. And you don't need that much initial duration as long as you can apply enough shred hits - so it's no problem if you only graze with in initially. The whole "trick" is to use Antipathetic Field - since it's a 1-sec-pulse beam but also a shred spell (not an echo spell like Ectopsychic Echo). Mind Blades also kind of works if there are only two enemies left. But Antip. Field is better. The good thing about the Field is that it doesn't hurt the weaker enemy you are attaching it to - it hurts only the boss (we don't want the ad to die too soon). Even without any ads you can use the Belt of Magran's Chosen to spawn a (weak and manageable) hostile Flame Blight which will stay forever. So you can anchor your AField to it. If you do stuff like that then Death of 1000 Deaths is indeed one of the best (what's the best anyway) boss killer for me. Bit fiddly maybe - but works very well.

 

Edit: ROFL... wrote "Cut of 1000 Deaths" at some point. Hilarious...


Edited by Boeroer, Yesterday, 03:16 AM.


#120
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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Combusting Wounds is nice but rel. weak against most bosses with high AR. It then often suffers from -75% (double inverted) dmg reduction which results in puny dmg ticks. I tested Death of 1000 Cuts quite excessively to get the most out of it and it's def. better suited to kill a high AR/high RES boss than Disintegration or CW is (except Neriscyrlas maybe since she's vulnerable to fire).

Disintegration is not that good on high RES enemies (most bosses have very high RES) since its duration gets reduced a lot by the high RES. Even more so when you only graze. THen it's not worth the focus at all. Secondly its dps is not that good to begin with.

Death of 1000 Cuts, once applied, does good dps once you get an Antipathetic Field going. It's 31 raw base dmg per second then (on top of the raw DoT ticks). If you have two ciphers it's 62 raw per second and so on. And you don't need that much initial duration as long as you can apply enough shred hits - so it's no problem if you only graze with in initially. The whole "trick" is to use Antipathetic Field - since it's a 1-sec-pulse beam but also a shred spell (not an echo spell like Ectopsychic Echo). Mind Blades also kind of works if there are only two enemies left. But Antip. Field is better. The good thing about the Field is that it doesn't hurt the weaker enemy you are attaching it to - it hurts only the boss (we don't want the ad to die too soon). Even without any ads you can use the Belt of Magran's Chosen to spawn a (weak and manageable) hostile Flame Blight which will stay forever. So you can anchor your AField to it. If you do stuff like that then Death of 1000 Deaths is indeed one of the best (what's the best anyway) boss killer for me. Bit fiddly maybe - but works very well.

 

 

Edit: ROFL... wrote "Cut of 1000 Deaths" at some point. Hilarious...

 

 

 

Ahh, yeah, I can see the use with Antipathetic Field. I tend to avoid that one because EE is superior in just about every other way except lacking the keyword, and I do extremely heavy scripting so I'm less fond of the micro-intensive powers, so generally one beam is enough (I mostly only use EE to trigger repeat hits of CW).  Still, a ping with Mind Blades is generally enough to do the job anyway, since all you need is the duration reset. 

 

I haven't had any low-duration issues with CW or Disintegrate on bosses this run because I've been using Konstanten with the "stacked morningstar modal + chanter debuffs" build so everything important has forty-five points whacked off of its Fortitude right away, making Disintegrate and CW crits relatively easy to land. 

 

That said i think we're disagreeing less than it might seem -- I'm not saying that single class ciphers are "bad," just that their endgame powers never got the final tuning-balance patch they probably needed. When I say they're "broken" I don't mean necessarily bad, just "not appropriately tuned." So the class peaks somewhere between tier 6 and 8 powers in terms of, like, play experience: that's when you get the good stuff. The level nine stuff is either stupid good to the point that it trivializes a big aspect of the game (driving echoes) or stupid bad (haunting chains), or just kinda gilding the lily (the expanded AoE passive).

 

 

 

 I didn't analyze this too much but... try to cast with that 175% speed boost (says tooltip) while ascended... whooha...  :)

 

I've actually gotten as high as 225% before -- wizard casts pull of eora first, etc. Still, more typical is 2-4 stacks at any one time. The (slight) downside to the power is that the duration and strength is dependent on the target, not an independent buff on the cipher, so Time Parasite won't lengthen its duration and if you kill off your concentrated enemies (rather likely if they're all bunched up with Eora) then your buff goes away also. Result is that practically speaking you don't often stay at more than +100% for very long....  :)

 

At some point I want to experiment with using casts of the "enfeebled" affliction to lengthen the duration of cipher parasitic buffs, but Konstanten is taking up the off-tank slot right now where a forbidden fist monk would go. 


Edited by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy, Yesterday, 10:31 AM.





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