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Matt

Documentation/Outline for turn based mode request

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It's exceedingly difficult to generate a bug/anomaly report without knowing what should be.  Often these reports take the form of:

 

X is.

Y should be.

 

e.g.

 

Ability shows 0 bonus acc in combat log.

Ability should have +10 acc bonus per tooltip.

 

To aid in assessing this beta turn based mode for bugs as well as design issues, it would be immensely helpful to have a specification.  Even in the absence of a full specification, some statement of general principles or goals would quite helpful.

 

I briefly checked the cyclopedia and didn't find much, although I wasn't thorough.  Any help along these lines would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks.

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I second this.

 

I didn't have much time to play with the new patch so far, but I'm still trying to figure out how Initiative, action speed and casting time interact.

 

So far my only feedback would be "There needs to be an extensive tutorial for the turn-based mode."

 

A blogpost explaining how it works (or is suposed to work) would be extremely helpful.

Edited by BlackVader
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Was about to make a thread saying pretty much the same thing.

 

This is necessary not only for bug reports but also just for playing it. The in-game information is not enough for me to know in detail how initiative works, and that's pretty damn important. Knowing how long a cast will take, currently, is half guesswork for me.

 

For the purposes of beta, I agree with BlackVader above: even just a blog post would be nice. 

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Knowing how long a cast will take, currently, is half guesswork for me.

 

 

 

Just in case you're not aware: When you hover the curser above ANY action (like a spell, ability or over an anemey for basic attack), the initative order shows you when your next turn comes up and when a spell will trigger (if applicable).

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Maybe I missed it, but does it show the calculation involved as well (e.g. acc calculations show class/attribute/skill/etc. bonuses).

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Hey everyone!

 

Thank you for the feedback :)  I'll put in a request for tutorializing Turn-Based Mode.  If you have other thoughts about what could use a tutorial, please continue to post about it here as I'll be putting a link to this thread into the report as a reference.

 

Thanks for the help everyone!

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Hey everyone!

 

Thank you for the feedback :)  I'll put in a request for tutorializing Turn-Based Mode.  If you have other thoughts about what could use a tutorial, please continue to post about it here as I'll be putting a link to this thread into the report as a reference.

 

Thanks for the help everyone!

Sorry for the bump, but given I've seen no movement about this, I figured the team might be interested in an opinion (granted, this list was compiled by me and another person, which doesn't make for much of a case, but hopefully our arguments are sound?)

 

Personally, I think these aspects of combat should be elaborated on in tutorials and the Cyclopedia:

 

- Initiative is a key aspect of the current implementation of Turn-Based, but the intended behavior is not very clear. So far it seems like it benefits casters the most and that it does not grant extra rounds at any point. It would be interesting to know exactly what the intended behavior is. Of course, I can understand that maybe the team is still considering changing this mechanic, which is why they might not have committed to a tutorial.

 

- Interrupts and Prone. What is the intended effect of Interrupts outside of interrupting spellcasting? Is Prone supposed to inflict any kind of penalty on a character?

 

- Durations. This isn't really completely tied to tutorials, but tooltips often reference seconds. As far as I can tell, a bunch of helpful fellows in the community have figured out the conversion method, but it would be better if all tooltips in Turn-Based mode referenced how things work in the turn-based combat.

 

- Action Speed. Action Speed is still a mechanic in turn-based but it is not completely clear how it operates. It obviously has an influence on Initiative, but how exactly does that work, and how useful is it?

- Losing Turns. Currently, there are situations in which a character can lose their turn during a round, e.g. when casting a spell with a low Initiative and long Casting Time. is that intentional? How exactly can a player anticipate these situations and plan accordingly?

 

There might be something else I'm missing, but for now it would help if the devs could give more information on these mechanics/potential issues.

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Sorry for the bump. I was starting a new turn-based playthrough and noticed that the tutorials still reference the old miss range. If there is no way to split the tutorials between turn-based and RTwP, then at least the tutorial should have a small addition noting that the range is different in turn-based.

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"There needs to be an extensive tutorial for the turn-based mode."

 

Having played a bit of turn based (mind you, my observations are heuristic) this is an assume you know nothing low-down on how turn-based works:

 

Initiative has a base value of 6, is reduced by positive action speed and increased by negative action speed and armor recovery. The increases are percentage based and appear to be additive. E.g. with +55% from heavy armor and +10% from having 5 dex, you get a +65% increase, so your initiative is 9.9 (6 + 6 * 0.65). When a round starts, characters with lower initiative go first (as a benchmark, most enemies have initiative 7 to 8).

 

The way how casts seem to work (again, facts drawn from pure examination) is that casts have an initiative which is added to your current initiative and cast at that initiative step. For example, if you have an initiative of 7 and a spell with an initiative of 4 (the spell initiatives are in the tooltips), the spell gets cast at initiative 11. I base this observation partially on the fact that spells with initiative 0 get cast instantly, i.e. at the same initiative step as when the casting character acts. I'm not entirely certain how spells being cast across rounds work - I believe that if your initiative + the spell's initiative exceeds a certain value (12?) then that number has 12 subtracted from it and is cast at that initiative step on the next round: if you have 11 initiative and cast a spell with initiative 4, then you have initiative 15 -> 15 - 12 = 3, so the spell would be cast at initiative 3 next round (I could be entirely wrong about this).

 

There's already been a gripe-post about how durations work in turn-based. To re-iterate what was said there: 1 round = 6 seconds in RTWP but the duration is always rounded down to the nearest factor of six unless it is less than 6. Quick example, Eldritch Aim has a duration of 10 seconds/1 round since 10 rounded down to the nearest factor of 6 is 6. Arcane Veil has a duration of 12 seconds/2 rounds. Unfortunately, the case ATM is that intelligence still affects the per-second duration which is then directly translated into number of rounds duration. At the Sound of His Voice has a base duration of 4 seconds (1 round), and so you would need +200% duration from INT and power level (an additional 8 seconds of duration) for it to last 2 rounds. This is a bit irritating, since a 6-second duration spell needs only +100% duration to get it to 12 seconds/2 rounds.

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