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[Doubt] Is there Build focused on summons?

SummonsBuilds Strategies invoker Necromancer Summoner Totemic

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#41
Frak

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Seems more danish to me than vailian. :)

 

The original name is "Börör", but umlauts could annoy english forum software back in the days, so I circumvented them. 

 

Nah mate. That's just me.  ;)

 

Oh, those umlauts. Ah duck it. I'm just gonna use 'oe'. Why confuse other posters?


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#42
Frak

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Watch out when testing: since the scaling is messed up (still) it may be that one summon you call is scaled differently (and thus has different health) than a second one. You will have to check if the compared summons are of the same level. 

 

 

I dpn't use the console. Which means testing will be on Maje Island with low-level summons.


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#43
Boeroer

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Jeez - why not? Speeds things up so profundly. 


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#44
michel.montenegro

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see
"More characters means more hits, which means more interrupts and a wider wall in front of your squishies, among other things."
"Beckoner is way better. Two drakes using empowered breaths will end every fight in seconds. There's no cooldown on their breath uses."

"Chanter: Troubadour vs Beckoner"
Source: https://www.reddit.c...ur_vs_beckoner/


Edited by michel.montenegro, 26 January 2019 - 12:13 AM.


#45
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They omit the fact that the Beckoner pays more phrases for an invocation AND can't generate phrases as quickly as a Troubadour. That means he usually can't keep summons on the field all the time. He will be busy only summoning if he wants to do that. Nothing else. It also means that the Troubadour can summon more creatures in a given time. Because he can generate twice as fast (so twiche the summoning frequency) while his "Many Lives Pass By" will produce a skeleton passively ever 3 seconds! 


Edited by Boeroer, 26 January 2019 - 12:18 AM.

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#46
Frak

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1) I don't use console because old computer and I am a bit of purist. I like to play the game without mods.

 

2) Chanter is s magic-user with default points in arcana. People tend to forget they can use scrolls when gathering phrases.

 

3) I still find that troubadour is overtuned (compared to default). I don't usually cry for nerfs, but I think troubadour is in need of a minor one/penalty.

 

 

But yeah, action economy of several more summons from beckoner is also an important thing. Go beckoner! ;-)


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#47
michel.montenegro

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They omit the fact that the Beckoner pays more phrases for an invocation AND can't generate phrases as quickly as a Troubadour. That means he usually can't keep summons on the field all the time. He will be busy only summoning if he wants to do that. Nothing else. It also means that the Troubadour can summon more creatures in a given time. Because he can generate twice as fast (so twiche the summoning frequency) while his "Many Lives Pass By" will produce a skeleton passively ever 3 seconds! 

You say that in 18 seconds, you would have more invocations in the field with Troubadour than Beckoner?



I'm reading:
https://www.reddit.c...r_subclass_now/
https://www.reddit.c..._or_troubadour/
https://www.reddit.c...ner_multiclass/

 



#48
Frak

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With "brisk recitation" on, a troubador gets 6 phrases in 18 seconds (but loses linger). Which means he can cast skeletons almost (costs 4, right?) twice. Nerf troubadour!

 

A beckoner gets 3 phrases in 18 seconds. which means he can cast skeletons almost (costs 4, right?) once. Same amount and they fill more on the battlefield, but are smaller and shorter duration.


Edited by Frak, 26 January 2019 - 12:30 AM.

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#49
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Let's say 24 seconds and forget the casting time for a bit:

 

Troubadour: generates 8 phrases --> can cast 2 skeleton invocations that cost 4 each --> 6 skeletons 

Beckoner: generates 4 phrases --> can cast 1 skeleton invocation that costs 4 --> 6 skeletons 

 

So in 24 secs the troubadour summons the same amount of summons - but they are sturdier and bigger. At the same time he can produce a skeleton every 3 seconds whith "Many Lives Pass By" while the Beckoner can only produce eone every 6 seconds:

 

So in 24 seconds the Troubadour summons 12 skeletons while the Beckoner summons 9. 6 of those are whimpy.

 

The advantage of the Beckoner is that all 6 come out at once and do damage right away - and that you can profit from killed summons. Which is easier if they die faster.


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#50
Kaylon

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The main issue of the beckoner is the short duration of their summons. Even 35int isn't enough to keep the summons 100% of the time (and it becomes even worse if the summons are killed before they expire).


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#51
michel.montenegro

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Let's say 24 seconds and forget the casting time for a bit:

 

Troubadour: generates 8 phrases --> can cast 2 skeleton invocations that cost 4 each --> 6 skeletons 

Beckoner: generates 4 phrases --> can cast 1 skeleton invocation that costs 4 --> 6 skeletons 

 

So in 24 secs the troubadour summons the same amount of summons - but they are sturdier and bigger. At the same time he can produce a skeleton every 3 seconds whith "Many Lives Pass By" while the Beckoner can only produce eone every 6 seconds:

 

So in 24 seconds the Troubadour summons 12 skeletons while the Beckoner summons 9. 6 of those are whimpy.

 

The advantage of the Beckoner is that all 6 come out at once and do damage right away - and that you can profit from killed summons. Which is easier if they die faster.

The cost of Beckoner skeletons is not less?
Except for mistake is 3, and the one of the Troubadour is 4.

In the end the Troubadour, ends up doing better the role of summoner (Beckoner invocations do not last less, they die faster, and make this impression). Beckoner is a subclass for specific strategies by sight.



#52
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Beckoner summons had the same duration as Troubadour summons when I checked 5 min ago. Did they change that? Because the description of the Beckoner passive still says shorter duration. But in my case they were all the same - just smaller and less durable. 


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#53
neotemplar

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The mentioned figurines are once-per-encounter items. They recharge after each battle and can be used again.

They add the shaman fetish flavour to chanter + allow non-summon classes to still summon smth

 

Has anyone tested chanters in turn-based mode?

Do they feel different, like firearms?

There were complaints about troubadours not working correctly.


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#54
michel.montenegro

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Beckoner summons had the same duration as Troubadour summons when I checked 5 min ago. Did they change that? Because the description of the Beckoner passive still says shorter duration. But in my case they were all the same - just smaller and less durable. 

In my description of the Beckoner in Pt-Br, it says that the invocations have 50% of the original life and are smaller (visually). Just say that, nothing to last less, this is the invention of the people.

Note: The cost of Beckoner invocations is -1 (I think in this case they are cheaper), if the default is 4 the Beckoner would be 3.



#55
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Figurines have charges. If you use them too often they are empty and you can throw them into the trashbin.


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#56
michel.montenegro

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The mentioned figurines are once-per-encounter items. They recharge after each battle and can be used again.

They add the shaman fetish flavour to chanter + allow non-summon classes to still summon smth

 

Has anyone tested chanters in turn-based mode?

Do they feel different, like firearms?

There were complaints about troubadours not working correctly.

They are like the "Quick Items" items of Baldur's Gate 2, where they have invocations they use and only return after resting.



#57
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Beckoner summons had the same duration as Troubadour summons when I checked 5 min ago. Did they change that? Because the description of the Beckoner passive still says shorter duration. But in my case they were all the same - just smaller and less durable. 

In my description of the Beckoner in Pt-Br, it says that the invocations have 50% of the original life and are smaller (visually). Just say that, nothing to last less, this is the invention of the people.

Note: The cost of Beckoner invocations is -1 (I think in this case they are cheaper), if the default is 4 the Beckoner would be 3.

 

What game version do you have? Because Beckoner Summons are actually one point more expensive (4 instead of 3 in case of skeletons) and the description of the Beckoner passive clearly states that the summons are smaller, have less health and less duration (actual game version 4.1):

 

beckoner_passive.png?dl=1

 

So it's def. not "the invention of the people". :)


Edited by Boeroer, 26 January 2019 - 08:15 AM.

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#58
michel.montenegro

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Beckoner summons had the same duration as Troubadour summons when I checked 5 min ago. Did they change that? Because the description of the Beckoner passive still says shorter duration. But in my case they were all the same - just smaller and less durable. 

In my description of the Beckoner in Pt-Br, it says that the invocations have 50% of the original life and are smaller (visually). Just say that, nothing to last less, this is the invention of the people.

Note: The cost of Beckoner invocations is -1 (I think in this case they are cheaper), if the default is 4 the Beckoner would be 3.

 

What game version do you have? Because Beckoner Summons are actually one point more expensive (4 instead of 3 in case of skeletons) and the description of the Beckoner passive clearly states that the summons are smaller, have less health and less duration (actual game version 4.1):

 

beckoner_passive.png?dl=1

 

So it's def. not "the invention of the people". :)

 

 

  • The chanter's summons are smaller and have half their normal health.
  • Summon Invocations cost +1 Phrases.

Source: https://pillarsofete...lasses#Beckoner

Worse than the description does not match with the official site, and unless cheat pt-Br (Translation) does not have the part of least duration, I tested here too and all skulls lasted exactly 18 seconds. as it is in the description (Unless the description shows, the duration already with the reduction of time)



#59
michel.montenegro

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In the game also comes written that has lesser duration, in addition to having half of life and a smaller size. (I.e.

Now in Portuguese it says that it costs -1 Sentence, in English +1 phrase (In this case I believe that the correct one is)
 

 

fe278c010ca5c50a6427735e8bfc6688-full.jp


What is the real cost of the initial skeletons? (In the game it appears that they cost 3), I am Backoner; and in the Troubadour, how much?
 

66859f3ac254cdefdc93108f95d24dcd-full.jp



#60
Elric Galad

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So it's def. not "the invention of the people". :)

 

 

I disagree. Obsidian devs are people.


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