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[Doubt] Is there Build focused on summons?

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#21
Marigoldran

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Helwalker/Ascendant (Monk and Cipher).  Grab the essence interrupter bow which you can get immediately at the beginning of the game and summon things by killing them.  

 

For monk abilities, get Dance of Death and Swift Strikes and Tenacious Blows.  For cipher, get Echoplastic Echo, Mind Blades, and all of the extra penetration cipher passives.  

 

I guess if you don't want more chanters, a druid is fine.  Get him Lord Darryn's Voulge and Deltro's Cage (provides electric power levels) and besides summoning stuff he'll electrocute everything around him.  


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#22
DozingDragon

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Or, you could just play the game on Classic or Veteran, and ignore most of the advice here which is highly tailored to playing on Path of the Damned, which may not be very enjoyable if you are completely new to playing Deadfire.

Either way, if you want to play with companions that can also summon, Tekehu as a single class Druid has access to many summoned creatures, including one of the best summons in the game, Watery Double. Other companions that can regularly summon include Pallegina (Herald), Maia (Geomancer), Aloth, Fassina, and Konstanten (Skald or Howler).
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#23
neotemplar

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I'm a summon freak! But summoner was way more fun in Divinity OS 2. Can't say that PoE is a summoner's dream.

In any other aspect I prefer PoE, but summoner was cooler in D:OS 2.

 

My additions

 

1) There are figurines. They allow you to summon creatures ASAP. So any class is able to summon immediately without chanting and waiting. You can make hunting for these figurines a cool roleplay flavour.

 

2) I don't like beckoners. Their creatures are x2 in quantity, but x2 smaller and weaker. Sometimes it's hard even to see them! I go base chanter (no subclass). Minmaxers should go beckoner. I prefer to summon 2 huge ogres, than 4 ogres half-sized. They look stupid. 

 

3) Ppl are right about Herald being the best combo (you heal summons and you are very sturdy). But mind the fact that you are locked from 2 top levels of both classes if you multiclass. Top-tier abilities are usually unused anyway, too expensive, but top level summon is a DRAGON. If your goal is to "get the full zoo" it may be a thing.

 

4) wizards and druids get summoned weaponry (think conjuration daedric weapons in TES)

 

5) there is a companion she can also be a herald if you choose


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#24
michel.montenegro

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Helwalker/Ascendant (Monk and Cipher).  Grab the essence interrupter bow which you can get immediately at the beginning of the game and summon things by killing them.  

 

For monk abilities, get Dance of Death and Swift Strikes and Tenacious Blows.  For cipher, get Echoplastic Echo, Mind Blades, and all of the extra penetration cipher passives.  

 

I guess if you don't want more chanters, a druid is fine.  Get him Lord Darryn's Voulge and Deltro's Cage (provides electric power levels) and besides summoning stuff he'll electrocute everything around him.  

x2 "Chanter / Paladin": Then,
As 3rd member says "Monk / Cipher"
as 4th member indicates "Druid"
And as a 5th member? (I thought of someone else's gross damage)



#25
michel.montenegro

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Or, you could just play the game on Classic or Veteran, and ignore most of the advice here which is highly tailored to playing on Path of the Damned, which may not be very enjoyable if you are completely new to playing Deadfire.

Either way, if you want to play with companions that can also summon, Tekehu as a single class Druid has access to many summoned creatures, including one of the best summons in the game, Watery Double. Other companions that can regularly summon include Pallegina (Herald), Maia (Geomancer), Aloth, Fassina, and Konstanten (Skald or Howler).

I'm playing just in PotD mode, it's my first game, but I like challenge.
These two are in my sights, but in doubt.
- Pallegina (Herald - Chanter / Paladin).
- Maia (Geomancer - Ranger / Wizard): Invocations of Magician + Animal Companion, correct?
Note: You have a romance with her, according to the website, I hope it's good.

I am in the doubt in the other 2, and if I repeat even the class "chanters / paladins", I was told that 2 is very strong the team.

I thought about this composition:
Herald * (Healing Wall)
Druid
Wizard
Ranger
? (Possible Rogue)

But it would be all paper except the Herald that would have a very strong healing power.



#26
michel.montenegro

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I'm a summon freak! But summoner was way more fun in Divinity OS 2. Can't say that PoE is a summoner's dream.

In any other aspect I prefer PoE, but summoner was cooler in D:OS 2.

 

My additions

 

1) There are figurines. They allow you to summon creatures ASAP. So any class is able to summon immediately without chanting and waiting. You can make hunting for these figurines a cool roleplay flavour.

 

2) I don't like beckoners. Their creatures are x2 in quantity, but x2 smaller and weaker. Sometimes it's hard even to see them! I go base chanter (no subclass). Minmaxers should go beckoner. I prefer to summon 2 huge ogres, than 4 ogres half-sized. They look stupid. 

 

3) Ppl are right about Herald being the best combo (you heal summons and you are very sturdy). But mind the fact that you are locked from 2 top levels of both classes if you multiclass. Top-tier abilities are usually unused anyway, too expensive, but top level summon is a DRAGON. If your goal is to "get the full zoo" it may be a thing.

 

4) wizards and druids get summoned weaponry (think conjuration daedric weapons in TES)

 

5) there is a companion she can also be a herald if you choose

About the figurines, I found it cool, did not I know it existed and are consumable?

What does "Minmaxers" mean?
And why beckoner, is indicated in this case?

Do not you like to see the little invocations in the beckoner? ^^
Neither do I, but it's so beautiful to see quantity.

Can I reset the build of the helpers and mine at any time?

Herald is very tank, so I saw and help the team a lot, but how does the Herald kill? (I wonder if he has little damage)

"3) Top-tier abilities are usually unused anyway, too expensive, but top level summon is a DRAGON.If your goal is to" get the full zoo "it may be a thing."
I did not quite understand the text above...

"4) wizards and druids get summoned weaponry (think conjuration daedric weapons in TES)"
Similar to Chanter's weapon invocation?

"5) there is a companion she can also be a herald if you choose"
x2 Heralds would be very strong in the Party?



#27
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Don't fall for the "Herald is god" blah.*

I mean unless you like to have boring, passive party members. Your initial idea about going with Wizard/Priest and Druid was totally fine. A herald can be very useful, but in my opinion it's boring to use too many of them.
What a herald can do for your party and all summons is quite nice though: they can combine Shared Flames (Upgrade of Flames of Devotion) and combine it with the chant "Mith Fyr" and the Zealous Focus aura. Both will stack and give all party members +30% (afaik) burning lash for their weapon attacks. Then he could switch to "survival mode" and deliver bonus armor and healing with Ancient Memory and Exalted Endurance. Both can be done parallel with two Heralds, true - but as I said that's also quite boring since it's very passive.

Paladins can't buff as good as Priests, Paladins can't heal as good as Druids (except single allies) nor can they deal that amount of damage nor can they do CC as well nor can they summon anything. So the statement "Paladins can do everything better" is utter nonsense. It's misleading and totally subjective. They can do SOME things better than others. But what a crappy class it would be if that wasn't the case, right?

The most powerful summon overall is upgraded Ancient Weapons, not the Dragon. But the dragon is more impressive.

Also the dragon (and drakes and spore) can be affected by Wild Growth (Ancient Druid ability) which is fun to use. It makes your beast/primordial summons bigger, gives them more armor and heals them.

Priests can be very helpful since the can provide a ACC of +15 for the whole party rel. early and also can prolong all positive effects (how short they may be) with Salvation if Time. This can be very powerful.

All casters (Wizard/Druid/Priest) start a bit weaker because they simply lack spell uses in the lower levels. But that gets better with each level.

Wizard's and Priest's summoned weapons are not like the Chanter's. They will summon them into their hands and fight with them.

With a Chanter you need to pick at least one invocation that has the highest possible phrase cost. Your phrase counter will stop at the amount of the most costly invocation you have. If you only pick cheap ones your counter will not go above them which is bad. It can be very beneficial to have a phrase counter of 6 and then dish out two invocations in a row that only cost 3.

*Because God is a Morning Star who's dual wielding Hand Mortars. ;)

Edited by Boeroer, 25 January 2019 - 10:23 PM.

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#28
michel.montenegro

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Don't fall for the Herald blah.

I mean unless you like to have boring, passive party members. Your initial idea about going with Wizard/Priest and Druid was totally fine. A herald can be very useful, but in my opinion it's boring to use too many of them.

Paladins can't buff as good as Priests, Paladins can't heal as good as Druids (except single allies) nor can they deal that amount of damage nor can they do CC as well nor can they summon anything. So the statement "Paladins can do everything better" is utter nonsense. It's misleading and totally subjective. They can do SOME things better than others. But what a crappy class it would be if that wasn't the case, right?

The most powerful summon overall is upgraded Ancient Weapons, not the Dragon. But the dragon is more impressive.

Also the dragon (and drakes and spore) can be affected by Wild Growth (Ancient Druid ability) which is fun to use. It makes your beast/primordial summons bigger, gives them more armor and heals them.

Priests can be very helpful since the can provide a ACC of +15 for the whole party rel. early and also can prolong all positive effects (how short they may be) with Salvation if Time. This can be very powerful.

All casters (Wizard/Druid/Priest) start a bit weaker because they simply lack spell uses in the lower levels. But that gets better with each level.

Wizard's and Priest's summoned weapons are not like the Chanter's. They will summon them into their hands and fight with them.

With a Chanter you need to pick at least one invocation that had the max phrase cost. Your phrase counter will stop at the amount of the most costly invocation you have. If you only pick cheap ones your counter will not go above them which is bad.

** My team (What I plan):
[Me]
GodLike Moon - Herald (Beckoner)
Might 18, Intelect 19, other 10
Note: Basically the "Healing Wall" build I saw here on the site, I LIKE a lot of invocations (I like to see volume).
Note2: But I'm afraid to do something stupid, because they keep complaining about Backoner and at the same time praising ...

My other favorite RPG classes:
Druid, Ranger, Priest, (Wizard or Rogue)
Note: I have not added Monk since I usually use it as main, never secondary (Helper). And I'm not much of a fan of Barbaro.

I wanted them to release 6 slots: /

So far I do not know which RPG character I could compare with Cipher, nor do I have any idea of ​​the character's proposal. Was it a "Mesmer"?

What is "Wild Growth"? It still exists, how does it work? Is the effect good?

What is ACC and Rel?
How could this help my team?

True, casters (Wizard / Druid / Priest) in the beginning are sad, basically no option.

"With a Chanter you need to pick at least one invocation that has the highest possible phrase cost. Your phrase counter will stop at the amount of the most costly invocation you have. If you only pick cheap ones your counter will not go above them which is bad. It can be very beneficial to have a phrase counter of 6 and then dish out two invocations in a row that only cost 3."
- Backoner would be good in this case?

*Because God is a Morning Star who's dual wielding Hand Mortars. ;)
- Did not I understand.


Edited by michel.montenegro, 25 January 2019 - 10:41 PM.


#29
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Don't fall for the Herald blah.

I mean unless you like to have boring, passive party members. Your initial idea about going with Wizard/Priest and Druid was totally fine. A herald can be very useful, but in my opinion it's boring to use too many of them.

Paladins can't buff as good as Priests, Paladins can't heal as good as Druids (except single allies) nor can they deal that amount of damage nor can they do CC as well nor can they summon anything. So the statement "Paladins can do everything better" is utter nonsense. It's misleading and totally subjective. They can do SOME things better than others. But what a crappy class it would be if that wasn't the case, right?

The most powerful summon overall is upgraded Ancient Weapons, not the Dragon. But the dragon is more impressive.

Also the dragon (and drakes and spore) can be affected by Wild Growth (Ancient Druid ability) which is fun to use. It makes your beast/primordial summons bigger, gives them more armor and heals them.

Priests can be very helpful since the can provide a ACC of +15 for the whole party rel. early and also can prolong all positive effects (how short they may be) with Salvation if Time. This can be very powerful.

All casters (Wizard/Druid/Priest) start a bit weaker because they simply lack spell uses in the lower levels. But that gets better with each level.

Wizard's and Priest's summoned weapons are not like the Chanter's. They will summon them into their hands and fight with them.

With a Chanter you need to pick at least one invocation that had the max phrase cost. Your phrase counter will stop at the amount of the most costly invocation you have. If you only pick cheap ones your counter will not go above them which is bad.

** My team (What I plan):
[Me]
GodLike Moon - Herald (Beckoner)
Might 18, Intelect 19, other 10
Note: Basically the "Healing Wall" build I saw here on the site, I LIKE a lot of invocations (I like to see volume).
Note2: But I'm afraid to do something stupid, because they keep complaining about Backoner and at the same time praising ...

My other favorite RPG classes:
Druid, Ranger, Priest, (Wizard or Rogue)
Note: I have not added Monk since I usually use it as main, never secondary (Helper). And I'm not much of a fan of Barbaro.

I wanted them to release 6 slots: /

So far I do not know which RPG character I could compare with Cipher, nor do I have any idea of ​​the character's proposal. Was it a "Mesmer"?

What is "Wild Growth"? It still exists, how does it work? Is the effect good?

What is ACC and Rel?
How could this help my team?

True, casters (Wizard / Druid / Priest) in the beginning are sad, basically no option.

"With a Chanter you need to pick at least one invocation that has the highest possible phrase cost. Your phrase counter will stop at the amount of the most costly invocation you have. If you only pick cheap ones your counter will not go above them which is bad. It can be very beneficial to have a phrase counter of 6 and then dish out two invocations in a row that only cost 3."
- Backoner would be good in this case?

*Because God is a Morning Star who's dual wielding Hand Mortars. ;)
- Did not I understand.

Chanter subclasses don't matter when it comes to my above hint. It's the case for all of them. Troubadour is widely considered more powerful than a Beckoner and can also dish out summons very quickly. Beckoner summons twice the amount of summons but they are smaller and have less health. They also cost more. You decide what's best for you. I would say generally for beginners the Troubadour is better since it's less niche/more versatile.

That part about the Morning Star was just a little inside-joke.


Edited by Boeroer, 25 January 2019 - 11:38 PM.

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#30
Frak

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About the figurines, I found it cool, did not I know it existed and are consumable?

What does "Minmaxers" mean?
And why beckoner, is indicated in this case?

Do not you like to see the little invocations in the beckoner? ^^
Neither do I, but it's so beautiful to see quantity.

Can I reset the build of the helpers and mine at any time?
 

 

 

 

 

"Minmaxing" is RPG-language for "mechanically optimizing your character/team at the possible cost of roleplay". It's when you choose certain, races, classes, abilities, items, and companions for mechanical reasons instead of going with what you like for a roleplay-perspective. Some people enjoy min-maxing and figuring out new combinations/compositions.

 

Min-maxers will show you big colourful Excel-graphs and say something like: "Due to diminishing returns we can clearly see in this pivot that the optimal resolve value is 12,65, if you also choose to have dexterity at 5.43. Unfortunately we cannot have 0.65, so we round it down to 12. The damage increase will be 1.8% better than my previous build".

 

You can respec/reset at most merchants/inns. Look or the dice-icon in the left side

 

 

PS. Also, chanter is best class! This is a fact! There is no scientific evidence for it, but it is a fact!


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#31
michel.montenegro

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About the figurines, I found it cool, did not I know it existed and are consumable?

What does "Minmaxers" mean?
And why beckoner, is indicated in this case?

Do not you like to see the little invocations in the beckoner? ^^
Neither do I, but it's so beautiful to see quantity.

Can I reset the build of the helpers and mine at any time?
 

 

 

 

 

"Minmaxing" is RPG-language for "mechanically optimizing your character/team at the possible cost of roleplay". It's when you choose certain, races, classes, abilities, items, and companions for mechanical reasons instead of going with what you like for a roleplay-perspective. Some people enjoy min-maxing and figuring out new combinations/compositions.

 

Min-maxers will show you big colourful Excel-graphs and say something like: "Due to diminishing returns we can clearly see in this pivot that the optimal resolve value is 12,65, if you also choose to have dexterity at 5.43. Unfortunately we cannot have 0.65, so we round it down to 12. The damage increase will be 1.8% better than my previous build".

 

You can respec/reset at most merchants/inns. Look or the dice-icon in the left side

 

 

PS. Also, chanter is best class! This is a fact! There is no scientific evidence for it, but it is a fact!

 

At least as MultiClass Looks Like! ^^
But I understood your explanation, thank you.

"Minmaxers should go beckoner"
Does the above text excerpt make me think that beckoner would be the top statistic build (Herald), or did I misinterpret it?



#32
michel.montenegro

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Chanter subclasses don't matter when it comes to my above hint. It's the case for all of them. Troubadour is widely considered more powerful than a Beckoner and can also discuss out summons very quickly. Beckoner summons twice the amount of summons but they are smaller and have less health. They also cost more. You decide what's best for you. I would say generally for beginners the Troubadour is better since it's less niche/more versatile.

That part about the Morning Star was just a little inside-joke.

 


x1 monster of 100hp or x2 of 50hp?
Technically x2 will last much less (dying in few hits in area), but has a greater potential for damage.

And realizing that the community has difficulty using the Beckoner, on account of the speed with which the invocations die, apparently. It is not yet for a player to speak with confidence that he uses Backoner and likes him in PotD.



#33
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Beckoner is a subclass that is clearly designed to focus on summons. I would go beckoner if I liked summons.

It fits roleplay-wise and I imagine you get more "oomph" with a beckoner due to the many summons.

 

If I wanted to focus on summon, I'd go beckoner. Maybe default chanter if - as one poster stated - you don't like the small size of the summons.

 

I'm a great chanter-fan, but I am more of a melee guy, so I go skald. ;-)


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#34
Frak

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Wait! It has not been proven that the smaller summons have half the hp. Some people just assume it! They could have 75% of the hp.

 

Assumptions are the mother of all duck-ups. And without data, they are just opinions and hearsay.


Edited by Frak, 25 January 2019 - 11:44 PM.

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#35
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The best Herald (in my opinion) comes with Goldpact Knight/Troubadour. You'll have tremendous staying power while being able to keep up two active phrases OR speed up your invocation frequency by 100%. If you go for Shared Flames and Exalted Endurance (Paladin part) + Ancient Memory only (Troubadour part) and dish out invocations like there is no tomorrow you will have a less boring and very powerful Herald who heals the party passively and gives them armor, gives them a lash for offense, doesn't die and actively casts invocations a lot (which includes summons).  


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#36
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Wait! It has not been proven that the smaller summons have half the hp. Some people just assume it! They could have 75% of the hp.

They have half. They are whimpy.

 

michel.montenegro is right: they die more quickly but deal more damage. They also have more CC potential since there are mory bodies on the field. For example skeletons have engagement which stops all rushers. Double Skeletons = twice the engagement slots.

 

There are also some tricks where you profit from killed summons since they count as allies and you get on-kill effects if you kill them yourself. Look at Paladin's abilites or the Grave Calling sabre.


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#37
Frak

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Troubador is fine subclass for a min-maxer [winks at Børør. Can I call you Børør, Boeroer? I'mma gonna call you Børør], but is vailian.

 

Vailians are bad people. You don't want to run around with a jaunty cap and talk with that arrogant accent they all have. 


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#38
Frak

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Wait! It has not been proven that the smaller summons have half the hp. Some people just assume it! They could have 75% of the hp.

They have half. 

 

Challenge accepted. I'm going to test that!


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#39
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Seems more danish to me than vailian. :)

 

The original name is "Börör", but umlauts could annoy english forum software back in the days, so I circumvented them. 


Edited by Boeroer, 25 January 2019 - 11:53 PM.

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#40
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Watch out when testing: since the scaling is messed up (still) it may be that one summon you call is scaled differently (and thus has different health) than a second one. You will have to check if the compared summons are of the same level. 


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