If You Want Damage, Try HelWalker/Ascendant

[Marigoldran]

Use sceptre modal to get wounds.  Get 10 wounds.

 

+10 Might.  +10 Intellect with wounds.  Ascend (intellect from turning wheel increases ascending time).  Thunderous Blows for more Might and Penetration.  Cast swift flurry for more action speed.  

 

Then cast disintegrates and amplified waves and WIN.  Disintegrates with 25 might and 28 intellect are insane.  A single cast almost kills dragons.  

 

(Have heralds to provide healing and summons).  

 

Without the use of Per Encounter weapon abilties, I think this is the highest DPS in the game.  

Edited January 21, 2019 by Marigoldran

[Frak]

What to do if you don't like paladins in your party? Those zealf-righteous asses are a bloody pain in the derriere.

[Boeroer]

Yes, it's a nice combo.

 

But Swift Flurry doesn't work with Scepters. Instead use Lightning Strikes. Also speeds up focus generation.

 

The scepter modal is nice in theory, but its self dmg doesn't matter much at higher levels (when you want to spam Disintegration etc.). In the early game it's risky but works well.

 

Here are some faster ways to get to 10 wounds and become ascended faster at higher levels (especially when you're past lvl 16 to get Disintegration):

 

Get wounds:

• +1 wound from Helwalker -->  6 wounds at the start of battle
• start encounter with Enduring Dance of Death and  immediately gain 1 wound and 3 ACC (gain +1 wound and +3 ACC every 3 sec) -->  7 wounds at the start of combat
• trigger Mortification of the Soul --> 9 wounds
• after recovery of Motification is over you'll have 10 wounds from the second tick of Enduring Dance
• (at high levels you will even start with 7 wounds)

Become ascended (scepters are poor here because they only do single target dmg):

• you picked Draining Whip instead of Biting Whip
• trigger Lightning Strikes
• use Thunderous Report (Kitchen Stove) or
• use dual mortars with Stunning Surge (you have +10 INT which means a tremenous AoE) or
• use Flagellanth's Path with dual mortars or
• use Watershaper's Focus: one shot + Blast from stealth (no bonuses on MIG and INT) on a crowded group usually means you can start the encounter ascended right away (focus generation from stealth got fixed). If not: alternatively fire one round from it  when you have 10 wounds for more AoE and lashes.

 

Disintegration with +10 MIG and +10 INT is very nice - especially if you can also manage to do a crit with Enduring Dance's +12 ACC - it's not the highest dps in the game though.

 

First of all it's single target damage - so it's intrinsically less damage than a big and high dmg AoE ability that hits multiple foes at once.
A Berserker just using Driving Roar + Frenzy + Bloodlust + Blood Thirst does notably higher damage per second on a group of enemies. Just because he combines high attack speed + low to zero recovery while doing 80-100+ dmg per hit (and knocking down foes). With Blood Surge he can usually do that all encounter long.

  
And secondly Disintegration doesn't have that much damage per second (dps) in the first place. It has very high overall damage though (for a single target spell). Great on bosses. The best if you can overcome the fortitude defense.

 

Amplified Wave with +10 MIG and +10 INT is really bonkers. Not only because of the damage - but of course also because of it. It's rel. low level (good base dmg * PL scaling * MIG bonus) so it does great damage per hit (poor PEN though - you really need Thunderous Blows but will still have no PEN problems - better have a single class cipher in the party who casts Driving Echoes on you, right? ) and the prone effect helps a ton to control crowds - especially if you can spam it while ascended. However - I consider Witch (Berseker/Ascendant) with Frenzy/Bloodlust and Blood Thirst to do better dps with Amplified Wave in the end. I may be wrong though. Didn't directly compare.

Helwalker/Ascendant is def. a great multiclass.

(Have a Priest to provide Salvation of Time for your ascended status - because if you don't it's over rel. quickly even with +10 INT).       

Edited January 21, 2019 by Boeroer

[Kaylon]

DOTs aren't great vs bosses because of their high resolve. Disintegration was nice vs bosses when it did fixed damage, but now its damage sucks vs high resolve enemies (and all other afflictions are crippled too).

[Marigoldran]

it still does massive damage to bosses because of the DOT.  You only need to hit once in your ascended period to take a dragon down to Near Death.  With 30 int, a Disintegrate lasts 30 seconds, which is 10 ticks.  It's massive.  It's real power is the fact that you only need to hit once, which means that you can reliably Disintegrate even high fort enemies once you've ascended.  

 

The heralds keep everyone alive as you watch it tick down.  

Edited January 21, 2019 by Marigoldran

[Marigoldran]

What to do if you don't like paladins in your party? Those zealf-righteous asses are a bloody pain in the derriere.

 

Priests, I guess. But Paladins are simply better at keeping things alive (Lay of Hands IS Barring Death's Door, but more spammable and heals target too).  

[Boeroer]

DOTs aren't great vs bosses because of their high resolve. Disintegration was nice vs bosses when it did fixed damage, but now its damage sucks vs high resolve enemies (and all other afflictions are crippled too).

No so much with Helwalker because the +10 INT does help. Which other single target spell is there for a cipher? And you can also cast a fine Miasma onto a boss in advance (together with a Body Blow to land the Disentegration in the first place).

 

I'm not speaking about Mega Bosses. Those have so much health that it doesn't matter that much how much damage per ability use you do - as long as you can survive long enough to whittle them down with whatever suits you.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

it still does massive damage to bosses because of the DOT.  You only need to hit once in your ascended period to take a dragon down to Near Death.  With 30 int, a Disintegrate lasts 30 seconds, which is 10 ticks.

You forgot two things: Power Level scaling and enemies' RES.

 

If the enemy has high RES it's a lot less than 30 secs even with 30 INT. Still good in my opinion though.

 

For example on Neriscyrlas it lasts 15 secs with 30 INT on a graze. And nothing stops you from casting it onto the boss again and again onve you are ascended (besides getting killed or interrupted/hard CC'd of course). The durations stack. So two grazes cumulate to 30 secs again. Plenty damage for a "non-mega" boss.

 

Also because it's raw - and most bosses have very high AR on PotD which is annoying.

 

(In case of Neriscyrlas however it's less effective than using Combusting Wounds) 

Edited January 21, 2019 by Boeroer

[Kaylon]

 

it still does massive damage to bosses because of the DOT.  You only need to hit once in your ascended period to take a dragon down to Near Death.  With 30 int, a Disintegrate lasts 30 seconds, which is 10 ticks.

You forgot two things: Power Level scaling and enemies' RES.

 

If the enemy has high RES it's a lot less than 30 secs even with 30 INT. Still good in my opinion though.

 

For example on Neriscyrlas it lasts 15 secs with 30 INT on a graze. And nothing stops you from casting it onto the boss again and again onve you are ascended (besides getting killed or interrupted/hard CC'd of course). The durations stack. So two grazes cumulate to 30 secs again. Plenty damage for a "non-mega" boss.

 

Also because it's raw - and most bosses have very high AR on PotD which is annoying.

 

(In case of Neriscyrlas however it's less effective than using Combusting Wounds) 

 

And Belranga has 25, Hauani has 28, Dorudugan has 35... But if you don't care about them I suppose it's ok...

[Boeroer]

I'll quote myself:

I'm not speaking about Mega Bosses. Those have so much health that it doesn't matter that much how much damage per ability use you do - as long as you can survive long enough to whittle them down with whatever suits you.

See, I quoted myself.

[MaxQuest]

The durations stack. So two grazes cumulate to 30 secs again.

Are you sure that they stack?

 

In statuseffects.gamedatabundle it has the "UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied" behaviour and not "AddDurationIfAlreadyApplied".

 

Btw, in PoE1 v3.0+, Disintegration was completely stacking with itself. It was not apparent because it would still show only 1 icon on target, but if you applied 2 disintegrations immediately one after another, enemy will take complete damage from both. Just like with Dragon Trashed.

 

I'll quote myself:

I'm not speaking about Mega Bosses. Those have so much health that it doesn't matter that much how much damage per ability use you do - as long as you can survive long enough to whittle them down with whatever suits you.

See, I quoted myself.

 

Ehh, and that's why Disintegration is the power I love to hate...

Despite of permanently ciphering around, I've used it 10 times tops during two playthroughs. And yeap, was considering multi-classing with helwalker at the release, for the idea of maximizing it's damage.

But gave up on that, because:

- majority of enemies die quicker than Disintegration hit elapses. Mind Blades and Amplified Wave usually result in higher effective DPS.

- the enemies I really would like to use Disintegration against... are Neriscyrlas and Mega Bosses. And the issue is their high Resolve (as already mentioned by Kaylon) and especially their very high Fortitude. The rate of misses and grazes, made me switch to Bleeding Cut instead, since it's so much easier to deal with their deflection.

 

Also, wasn't Disintegration considered a "bad dot"?

Edited January 21, 2019 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

I tested it one minute before posting: two grazes for 15 secs each and suddenly I had ~30 secs on the dragon. I wasn't expecting that. I also checked if I hit the second time instead of graze - but no. Originally I just wanted to check how good/bad the duration with 30 INT on the Dracolich would be. Don't know if that's intended behavior.

 

Afaik the "weird" DoT mechanics (less INT = higher dps) got fixed through the board. 

 

Yes, as I said: Disintegration doesn't do enormous dps. I would prefer Amplified Wave any time. But against certain tough enemies with high AR (Dracolich with Llengrath's Safeguard on is a pain) it's nice - if you are ascended. With any other cipher it's too expensive for my taste - so I skip it. To be honest I don't use it at all in "real" playthroughs.

 

I debuff Fortitude in every encounter by the way. There are too many good abilites that target it - so debuffing fort. is usually one of my top priorities. That's why I'm a big fan of Morning Stars.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

I tested it one minute before posting: two grazes for 15 secs each and suddenly I had ~30 secs on the dragon. I wasn't expecting that. I also checked if I hit the second time instead of graze - but no. Originally I just wanted to check how good/bad the duration with 30 INT on the Dracolich would be. Don't know if that's intended behavior.

That's strange tbh

 

Afaik the "weird" DoT mechanics (less INT = higher dps) got fixed through the board.

Hmm, didn't see this mentioned in the patch notes. Gotta check this in the weekend)

 

I debuff Fortitude in every encounter by the way. There are too many good abilites that target it - so debuffing fort. is usually one of my top priorities. That's why I'm a big fan of Morning Stars.

Well yes, I've seen you mentioning morning stars in general and The Willbreaker in particular several times already ))

I do agree, that's a great weapon and the player can debuff enemies fortitude.

 

My point was though that it's easier to deal with bosses deflection. E.g:

Neriscyrlas (with Safeguard):

- deflection: 125

- fortitude: 160

 

Dorudugan:

- deflection: 159

- fortitude: 192

 

Yes you can lower fort by 25 via Body Blows, and by 20 more via MIG/CON afflictions (provided that you have landed them).

But their deflection still gonna be lower with just Confounding Blind.

[Boeroer]

Yes, but in case of the Dracolich you only need to land that one Combusting Wound cast and the rest is missiles and tiny hits from Walls etc. So it's totally worth it to debuff Fortitude for that one cast. Makes the whole fight a cakewalk (with a party). You don't have to target fortitude all the time. Only when it counts.

 

Megabosses I exclude as you said. They do favor classes without Power Pools and fixed spell uses because the fights will last forever. I find the design of the Mega Boss battles underwhelming. I would have liked them to be more like Titan Souls encounters.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Boeroer

[Marigoldran]

Hence: heralds - and 1 rogue- (for the megabosses).  

[Razorchain]

I have one ranged helwalker/cipher in my current party and she's great. Helwalker is great just because of the might and int bonus and you don't have to take any damage for it and get +12 acc as well with enduring dance.

[Marigoldran]

Which synergizes well with a Hunting Bow (modal gives -10 Acc and -50% recovery time).  

 

You're shooting once every 1.5 seconds.  

[Squilla]

Did I miss a change on the hunting bow modal? I thought it was 15% recovery

[Marigoldran]

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Weapons_(Deadfire)

 

-15 Accuracy, my bad.  But -50% recovery.  

Edited January 22, 2019 by Marigoldran

[Squilla]

That is still really good, I thought it was 15 accuracy penalty and 15 recovery benefit - I’m going to definitely use this!

[Razorchain]

Which synergizes well with a Hunting Bow (modal gives -10 Acc and -50% recovery time).  

 

You're shooting once every 1.5 seconds.  

 

I find it very situational in upscaled Potd where you are often wanting for accuracy. One thing which I find great about hunting bows is the fact that they have +5 acc bonus which means when you grab Essence interrupter it gives you a +13 acc boost which makes it the best early weapon you can get your hands on. 

[Marigoldran]

Yes but you shoot so fast that even if you miss it's not big deal.  

 

Dance of Death gives a ton of accuracy, and when you add in flanking bonuses from allies that's enough to consistently hit.  

 

Also, Tekehu has Nature's Mark.  

 

There's a ton of things that can give you accuracy and when you combine it with a super fast bow that means a TON of damage. 

[Boeroer]

You can do the same with a one handed pistol by the way: gain +12 ACC and 20% hit to crit, then use the modal  to suffer 15 ACC but half your reloading time. All in all it's "only" a loss of 3 ACC and a big gain in speed and crit conversion. Especially if you have a pistol that you want to attack/hit with a lot (see Opening Barrage of Scordeo's Trophy or Bullet Time of Eccea's Arcane Blaster): sometimes you don't want to alternate between dual pistols but hit with one exclusively. The modal gives you higher speed than dual wielding + two weapon style - which means dps doesn't drop compared to these - while you can make sure your weapon procs occur more often.

 

I find this actually better than hunting bow + modal (which is also fine in some situations of course). Also because you can always skip reloading which makes a gun user more reactive.

 

Drawback is the single damage type (not when using Eccea's Arcane Blaster though) and the shorter range.

 

I mean when I compare generic pistols to generic hunting bows. Unique weapons are a different thing, depends on the enchantments.    

Edited January 22, 2019 by Boeroer

[Marigoldran]

The single damage type of Pistols is the reason why I chose Essence over Unique Pistols.  Also, you get the essence much earlier.

 

Still, there's no reason not to carry the Arcane Blaster.  

Edited January 22, 2019 by Marigoldran