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The Political Thread - Browncoat edition... down with the Alliance!


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#41
injurai

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People are afraid if they strike they will struggle to find work again, especially when it's on record with a federal work record. It's easier when it's a private/public company that you say **** off to. The feds employ a **** load of people and it's often people struggling to find compensation from a profit-minded business owner. I can understand people wanting to wait things out, in theory the shutdown could end any day now... right? Probably not but they don't want to get stuck in a worse situation is my guess.



#42
Guard Dog

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in optimal world, opportunities should be enough.  is plenty of opportunities for folks with a little self-motivation to succeed with or without college.  real world is not optimal.  real world has kids believing they is failures, convinced they is failures before they hit age twenty. send off to colleges their high school didn't or couldn't prepare them for and then nod sadly when they fail.

 

am not certain o' solutions. encouraging more kids to start college ain't working particular well. 

 

HA! Good Fun! 

 

This. If a high school kid of average intelligence and academic inclination asked me for career advice I'd tell them to think long and hard before going into serious debt to pay for college. If you have a burning passion for a particular field that is one thing. But if you don't know what you want to do with your life do NOT go to college to try and figure that out. That is not what they do there. Don't put the cart before the horse. 

 

Besides like Grom said a degree itself might be overvalued in terms of the qualifications you get while earning it. Back in the 90's I threw some $60k at FAU for a degree completely irrelevant to my current profession. Granted it wasn't my money mostly... my rich Uncle Sam took care of most of it. But still...

 

You know what is seriously undervalued? Trade schools. HVAC Mechanics will never want for work. I read somewhere once there was over 100 billion square ft of commercial building space in the US. You have to figure times two for homes and other spaces. Almost all of it cooled by HVAC. I had to get mine fixed last spring and the wait was three days. They are that busy even here in the back end of nowhere TN. 


Edited by Guard Dog, 22 January 2019 - 01:09 AM.

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#43
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I tell kids all the time about the importance and financial viability of trade schools. Also I talk up agriculture and the transportation industry. But nobody listens to the Social Science teacher.  ;(  


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#44
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There's also a deficit of skills trade workers across the nation at the moment.

 

Unfortunately I think schools and colleges are doing a poor job of actually advising students before they ever enroll in a college about their options to meet their goals.  Unfortunately, the general incentives from state funding to college and universities is still enrollment. 

 

One thing that frustrated me when I worked in advising was seeing students on their way out of college, having struggled for some reason or another, and in talking with them finding out their goal was to get two years of classes and a degree and get a job.  The school was 90% two year transfer programs to complete a bs/ba, not 2 year terminal degree programs leading to a job.  The vast majority of students in this situation should have been in a trade school, got the trade degree, got a job and then once their financial situation was stable, decide whether pursuing a further degree was worth it.

 

But instead they're looking at no longer being eligible for financial aid to go to the trade school and some are looking at paying back pricey loans with no way to do it (and often times, it'll take whatever housing they're at with them).



#45
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A college or university is a business. An indecisive student that takes a lot of unrelated classes and muddles around for a while is good for business. Why do you think Wal-Mart & Target arranges their stores they way they do? The WANT you walking around and seeing stuff. I was an engineering student. Did I need to take Psycology, American Lit. Creative Writing, etc? No I did not. But I HAD to take, and PAY, for all of them and others. Would you advise someone with no income who didn't know what they wanted or needed to go Target and buy a bunch of things on a credit card?

 

Of course they recoil like Dracula from a cross when you point this out.  I really upset one of my instructors one time. He made a rather glib comment about his role as our professor. I told him he had a fundamental misconception about our relationship. Miami Dade CC offers to teach people things for a price. I paid the price and "hired" them to teach me Calculus. As their employee they assigned him to fulfill their part of the contract. I was not his student, I was his customer. My contract with MDCC is if I pay and show up for class I'll be taught Calculus. That's our "relationship".  He was NOT pleased. But I was right, he was wrong. 


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#46
SonicMage117

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Agreed.

#47
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A college or university is a business. An indecisive student that takes a lot of unrelated classes and muddles around for a while is good for business. Why do you think Wal-Mart & Target arranges their stores they way they do? The WANT you walking around and seeing stuff. I was an engineering student. Did I need to take Psycology, American Lit. Creative Writing, etc? No I did not. But I HAD to take, and PAY, for all of them and others. Would you advise someone with no income who didn't know what they wanted or needed to go Target and buy a bunch of things on a credit card?

 

Sounds like they made you take an elective humanities course to check off "we tried to make engineers well rounded", like they did with us.  Was a nice break from the endless math and abuse to get a relaxed course :lol:



#48
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As someone who did a computer science degree, it's honestly depressing to see how many low quality "tech schools" and "bootcamps" there are that chew through peoples wallets then hand them the most wage-slavey jobs that the tech industry has to offer. I really have a sense of just how bad the scam is now. Never mind the horrific blobs of technical debt these coders end up creating because they are all too gungho on being a "hyper-productive silicon valley geniuses." In reality they work out of some remote office in the midwest for $36000 of which 20% of that is actually going to the recruiters that got them the **** job in the first place, and often times are more in debt than if they went to a decent community college.

 

As someone that just got through the ringer of the modern state university system, I feel like I ran across an open field in ww1 and managed to get to the tree line with only some flesh wounds. Which is to say I barely navigated that battlefield. It wasn't the difficulty of the courses, it was the whole financial affair just to carve out the opportunity to attend. The amount of people I see permanently ruined for not being on the right professional track is absolutely depressing. These people will not be able to afford anything in life without taking on more debt, and could have been very well off if they worked their current jobs since straight out of high school. What's worst is many of them, have had their bitterness ideological co-opted by their program of studies while in school, and it's apparently not the schools fault in their eyes for getting them into these deep waters. I still think Universities are the best place to learn if you take the programs seriously and stick to the classical subjects and hard skills / sciences, but man are they also used to create a dis-empowered skilled working class.



#49
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When did this 'technical debt' buzzphrase come about ?  My first suspicion that it has come from Agile cultists. :p


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#50
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Imo, the community college course and book prices are very fair. The five books I just paid for (used mind you) came to ~160.00 and the courses themselves ~1100.00.


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#51
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A college or university is a business. An indecisive student that takes a lot of unrelated classes and muddles around for a while is good for business. Why do you think Wal-Mart & Target arranges their stores they way they do? The WANT you walking around and seeing stuff. I was an engineering student. Did I need to take Psycology, American Lit. Creative Writing, etc? No I did not. But I HAD to take, and PAY, for all of them and others. Would you advise someone with no income who didn't know what they wanted or needed to go Target and buy a bunch of things on a credit card?
 
Of course they recoil like Dracula from a cross when you point this out.  I really upset one of my instructors one time. He made a rather glib comment about his role as our professor. I told him he had a fundamental misconception about our relationship. Miami Dade CC offers to teach people things for a price. I paid the price and "hired" them to teach me Calculus. As their employee they assigned him to fulfill their part of the contract. I was not his student, I was his customer. My contract with MDCC is if I pay and show up for class I'll be taught Calculus. That's our "relationship".  He was NOT pleased. But I was right, he was wrong.

 
You took Psychology, etc because that's what a Liberal Arts program does.  The goal is to expose you to a variety of subjects to make you a 'well rounded' individual with a broad and basic knowledge of a lot of things.  We can debate whether the liberal arts model works for the modern day, but you weren't taught things for no reason.

 

It is completely fair to feel these classes had no bearing on what you wanted to do certainly one of the biggest debates in higher ed is the utility of the liberal arts model in the modern day.  Designed centuries ago so graduates would have a broad base of knowledge to make them flexible and well rounded; able to converse or make informed decisions on a large number of topics followed by a lot of specific knowledge on their preferred subject of expertise which would be applicable to a particular career.  However college degrees were never intended to be a 'gate keeper' to employment like modern society has made them, thus leading to the natural debate as to whether colleges and universities should change their focus to one more in line with what business and industries expect their employees to do rather than the well-rounded individual approach.
 

Colleges weren't originally supposed to act like a business, although a lot of decisions through the years have forced them to act more and more as one creating its own level of problems.

 

Sounds like they made you take an elective humanities course to check off "we tried to make engineers well rounded", like they did with us.  Was a nice break from the endless math and abuse to get a relaxed course :lol:

 
Every liberal arts college will do this.  Its what a liberal arts degree means.  Even engineering schools, although most of them that I'm familiar with will make the liberal arts portion as small as their governing and accrediting bodies will let them get away with.



#52
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Of course they recoil like Dracula from a cross when you point this out.  I really upset one of my instructors one time. He made a rather glib comment about his role as our professor. I told him he had a fundamental misconception about our relationship. Miami Dade CC offers to teach people things for a price. I paid the price and "hired" them to teach me Calculus. As their employee they assigned him to fulfill their part of the contract. I was not his student, I was his customer. My contract with MDCC is if I pay and show up for class I'll be taught Calculus. That's our "relationship".  He was NOT pleased. But I was right, he was wrong. 

 

I would argue that it isn't a straight customer relationship, because it is also falls to the professor to hold you accountable for that information. You are paying for the credit as much as the lessons. The professor isn't just hired to serve the students, they are hired to create and implement a curriculum that will allow the school to give those credits. You then pay the school for that credit. Hopefully those credits are then useful to you in pursuit of a career or financial growth. That's one reason why tenure exists. In most service jobs, keeping the customer happy is a top priority. In education, it is secondary.

 

Realistically if you are just in school for personal growth, you should have the financial flexibility to do so, because you are a hobbyist at that point.



#53
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When did this 'technical debt' buzzphrase come about ?  My first suspicion that it has come from Agile cultists. :p

 

In response to agile most likely.


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#54
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Agreed.

She's creepy.


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#55
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FAKE NEWS tricks Obsidianites again!

 

https://ca.news.yaho...-043042380.html


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#56
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I knew they were all Nazis all along.



#57
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Why are Kanadians so ignorant and obtuse? Nothing in that video shows them being 'nazis'. LMAO BTW, If you watched the black Jewish folk attacked the Natives ther eby telling them' you lost your lkand because you worshipped the wrong god'. Where's your outrage over that, racist?


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#58
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Why are Kanadians so ignorant and obtuse? Nothing in that video shows them being 'nazis'. LMAO BTW, If you watched the black Jewish folk attacked the Natives ther eby telling them' you lost your lkand because you worshipped the wrong god'. Where's your outrage over that, racist?

 

I said all of them.  The students. The native guy. The black guys.  That one lady at 03:33 in one frame on the left.  Nazis.


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#59
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So.. now you are a thief stealing my shtick. Good troll.... NAZI.


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#60
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Imo, the community college course and book prices are very fair. The five books I just paid for (used mind you) came to ~160.00 and the courses themselves ~1100.00.

 

Depends on the state, depends on the college. Even a lot of community colleges around here cost upwards of 3 grand a semester to attend full time, and the "textbooks" come with mandatory CD keys to unlock online content that is a requirement to even be in the class (since professors will use that online platform to do all coursework, and you can't get on it without the CD key)...and those CD keys are only good when purchasing new, and new usually costs 120-200 per class.






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