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I don't think there's any problem with the Ranger-As-Beastmaster class.  It's perfectly reasonable to balance and it's an evocative fantasy and something a lot of players demand.  I do think there is a problem in that 'Archer / long range DPS' is also a popular fantasy, and not one that has an obvious home in the PoE universe without being glued to the 'Beastmaster' that a lot of players don't want.

 

If starting from scratch and without the design debt to PoE1, I think the right thing to do would have been to make the animal companion the benefit of a single Ranger subclass, as part of a Beastmaster / Stalker / Sharpshooter trio, and balance accordingly.

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I would be fine with a Beastmaster class and a Ranger class, separately. Or a Ranger class as is, perhaps with a subclass to emphasize the Beastmaster style, and then a class geared for ranged attacking that isn't Ranger.

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Twinned Shot with Driving Flight + Watershaper's Focus + Blast + Heaven's Cacophony (Avenging Storm) is pretty bonkers. Add Wild Barrage for even more bonkeritis.

 

Also works well with mortars and Frostseeker.

 

Arcane Archer with the Watershaper's Focus, Driving Flight, Wild Barrage and Death Ring (up to 5 procs per shot) is also very good.

 

Does Blast proc Avenging Storm?

 

More generally, in your opinion, how would you rate those three different weapons to combo with Avenging Storm and Twin Shot/Driving Flight: Watershaper's Focus w/Blast, mortars, Frostseeker?

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Posted (edited)

If you're going to play solo ranger, id suggest you install PoE2 Deadfire Tweaks

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/72

It makes rangers viable on potd solo. Im lvl 17 now and loving my arcane archer.

My pet Comendante, is a semi decent tank. As long as i throw a heal on him.

 

As is usual with tweak/rebalance mods, this one comes with some interesting ideas and a host of questionable ones. The ranger changes do look pretty good, though.

 

I have to agree with those who say that the pet dies way too easily. I don't mind rangers having a pet, as such. It makes the class stand out, since otherwise it doesn't really have any kind of identity - D&D has tried and failed to give it some for 20 years. But that doesn't help much if the pet is a liability until you invest in it heavily. And the ranger also tries to be a "marksman" class, which ends up just straddling the fence. I don't think it should be a sharpshooting class, though. That's just too limiting and would interact poorly with ranged rogues.

 

I'm playing a single-class sharpshooter right now, and while it's not bad, it's not terrific, either. My wolf doesn't die quite as easily now that I took a bunch of buffs for it, at least. The highest power levels have some decent active abilities now, but 5-7 is still pretty sad. We can only hope Obsidian keeps tweaking rangers, I suppose.

Edited by MortyTheGobbo

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I feel like ranged rogues are always suboptimal. The identity of the class is linked to stealth... And the stealth buffs don't work from significant range. CAN you do a ranged rogue? Sure. You can also do a ranged fighter or monk, but that's not really the classes identity.

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I feel like ranged rogues are always suboptimal. The identity of the class is linked to stealth... And the stealth buffs don't work from significant range. CAN you do a ranged rogue? Sure. You can also do a ranged fighter or monk, but that's not really the classes identity.

Melee and ranged.

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Posted (edited)

I feel like ranged rogues are always suboptimal. The identity of the class is linked to stealth... And the stealth buffs don't work from significant range. CAN you do a ranged rogue? Sure. You can also do a ranged fighter or monk, but that's not really the classes identity.

 

Pretty much all their offensive powers work with ranged attacks. So does their main feature, sneak attack, and its upgrade, Deathblows. Ring the Bell has a clause for ranged attacks. So I'm not really seeing any of that.

Edited by MortyTheGobbo

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I feel like ranged rogues are always suboptimal. The identity of the class is linked to stealth... And the stealth buffs don't work from significant range. CAN you do a ranged rogue? Sure. You can also do a ranged fighter or monk, but that's not really the classes identity.

 

Pretty much all their offensive powers work with ranged attacks. So does their main feature, sneak attack, and its upgrade, Deathblows. Ring the Bell has a clause for ranged attacks. So I'm not really seeing any of that.

 

Stealth focused class, Backstabs, it's kinda their stereotype... And then Backstab is under 2M distance. Also can't self-flank from range, so Sneak Attack will only help after you STOP sneaking to apply an affliction.

 

I'm not saying it can't be DONE, or it isn't VIABLE... Just that it doesn't fit the class's standard identity, that of a sneaky, strike from the dark, assassin/thief type. I do think Rogue is currently the best ranged attacker, but I don't think that's Rogue's best role, and it's really only because the class that is supposed to take that position is Ranger, which really isn't great IMO.

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Backstab is rather weak post-nerf though, and not really worth building around IMO.

Backstabbing Assasins can be made to work and are quite flavorful, but even that is frankly a lot of effort for not very impressive results. Seems like the best use for an Assassin is to cast evocation spells from stealth.

 

Rogues use their resources much more efficiently as ranged characters, flankers, offtanks and even main tanks.

Edited by Haplok

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While it's not the most efficient use of spells, I like playing an Assassin/Wizard who uses Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure a lot (for increasing the number of invisibility uses).

 

- sometimes I summon Concelhaut's Draining Touch (has highest melee weapon base damage)

- I sneak up and do an Assassination + Backstab + Sneak Attack + Sash of Judgement (+10% dmg) + Pregognition (+25% crit damage) + Hylea's Talons.

- Usually I turn invisible because of Slippers of the Assassin + kill

 

Powerful weapons for an Assassin are also Dragon's Dowry and Chromoprismatic Staff. Guns have the huge advantage that you can immediately cast stuff after the assassination while with a melee weapon you'll have to wait for recovery to be done. That's why I would argue that the perfect weapon for a backstabbing assassin is the arquebus. WHile being fun it is totally counterintuitive - and I still don't know why the devs didn't change the mechanics of Backstab from a percentage-based dmg bonus to a flat one (see Soul Annihilation) so that light weapons won't face a disadvantage anymore. Wael knows we've been suggesting that a lot of times now. I guess nobody's reading it... ;)

 

Now I'm thinking about Assassin/Bloodmage because I could use Blood Sacrifice to regain Draining Touches and Brilliant Departure while the Assassination/Backstab + Draining Touch would give me back plenty ot health.

 

Hm... actually that' exactly the char I want to try next. :)

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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While it's not the most efficient use of spells, I like playing an Assassin/Wizard who uses Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure a lot (for increasing the number of invisibility uses).

 

- sometimes I summon Concelhaut's Draining Touch (has highest melee weapon base damage)

- I sneak up and do an Assassination + Backstab + Sneak Attack + Sash of Judgement (+10% dmg) + Pregognition (+25% crit damage) + Hylea's Talons.

- Usually I turn invisible because of Slippers of the Assassin + kill

 

Powerful weapons for an Assassin are also Dragon's Dowry and Chromoprismatic Staff. Guns have the huge advantage that you can immediately cast stuff after the assassination while with a melee weapon you'll have to wait for recovery to be done. That's why I would argue that the perfect weapon for a backstabbing assassin is the arquebus. WHile being fun it is totally counterintuitive - and I still don't know why the devs didn't change the mechanics of Backstab from a percentage-based dmg bonus to a flat one (see Soul Annihilation) so that light weapons won't face a disadvantage anymore. Wael knows we've been suggesting that a lot of times now. I guess nobody's reading it... ;)

 

Now I'm thinking about Assassin/Bloodmage because I could use Blood Sacrifice to regain Draining Touches and Brilliant Departure while the Assassination/Backstab + Draining Touch would give me back plenty ot health.

 

Hm... actually that' exactly the char I want to try next. :)

Is the damage from CDT so much higher than, say, using Sanguine Great Sword with modal?  Does it give back life in DoT vs one hit, and that's why it's better than Sanugine?

I also though the heal from Twin Eels with stacked religion was pretty decent, but I don't know how it compares to CDT.

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It's great in a lot of cases because:

 

a) it's one handed and thus you will get +12 ACC

b) it has an average base damage of 28 (from memory), Great Sword only has 21.

c) it targets Will instead of Deflection (can be debuffed to the ground with Miasma + clubs' Bewildering Blows or The Willbreaker)

d) it weakens the target on hit (for base 15 sec I believe?)

e) it drains 20% of damage done as health. That's not too much, but with Assassinate + Backstab it's okish

f) you can summon it and then summon an Essential Phantom which will use it until its summoning time is over (Draining Touch will not get removed after a hit) 

 

Cons:

1) gets removed after successful attack

2) you have to use a spell slot

3) you have either to pick the ability or carry a grimoire with it

4) You have to summon it (costs time)

 

Of course the biggest downside is that it is gone after a successful attack. I would have liked it better if it had a normal summoning time - shorter than the other summoned weapons though.

 

But most of all it's just fun to use. The screen shakes a bit when you crit with it and the damage numbers after a crit from stealth with all the Assassin's dmg bonuses are cool. With the right equipment I get ~140 crit damage with an auto-attack.  With Zandethus Draconic Fury it's over 200. With all that + Crippling Strike I get ~250 - up to 300. Then add Deep Wounds (although it says pierce/crush/slash damage it works with Draining Touch which does corrode damage)... ;)

It won't kill the big monsters with those high health pools, but it will take out the squishies reliably. It's just fun to sneak in, kill some casters, become invisible and repeat - before you storm in with the rest of the crew. It's not the usual "moar dps!" apporach but a sneaky one. Also powerful because the enemy can't get you. Takes some time though...

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Out of curiosity have you ever tested draining touch with the copies spawned by the phantasmal cloak (or whatever its name is)?  I wonder if they get repeat attacks with it as well.

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On 1/7/2019 at 3:25 AM, Nssheepster said:

Also, I realize, it's a fantasy game, realism isn't a focus... But how did a STAG Animal C ompanio n survive a ship wreck and g et to the be ach, exactly?

Probably the same way everyone who was wearing plate, chain and leather armour and pollaxes/2 handed swords got to shore.

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Stags can swim quite well without any swimming lessons. Better than humans who had no swimming lessons. ;)


Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Posted (edited)

Hearth orlan + sharpshooter + veilpiercer/saint omaku mercy + takedown is a powerful combo. The last one is an underrated ability but if you buff the pet with some INT inspiration it's still +100% damage received for 15s. Acina's trikorn + ring of the marksman + gauntlets of accuracy + marskman + stalker's link + survival of the fittest + accurate wounding + legendary warbow + marked for the hunt  put your accuracy at 5 + 4 + 3 + 4 + 10 + 10 + 20 + 16 + 10= +82. WIth devotions for the faithful +92 accuracy. If you max PER you can get near +110/+120 accuracy depending on target's health.

With a +15% + 10% hit to crit conversion add some potions and alchemy for tough encounters and you have a character with a 80% crit ratio with a 50% chance of ignoring recovery. SC rangers may seem weak early game but late on are stupidly powerful.

Edited by indika_tates

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Posted (edited)

Takedown Combo gets removed after a successful hit, so it doesn't matter how long its duration is as long as you can hit the enemy within that duration. It's a bonus for 1 hit only.

Still good if you combine it with high base dmg attacks such as certain direct damage single target spells (e.g Killing Bolt).

St. Omaku's Mercy is indeed great. Also on a Ranger/Berserker or Ranger/Monk due to the very high ACC and/or conversion rate. Berserker is especially cool because if recovery doesn't get removed you can still count on Blood Thirst and Bloodlust/Frenzy as speedups. Driving Flight also helps to trigger it a lot since the bounce also counts.

Very nice weapon which doesn't get mentioned often enough.

Edited by Boeroer

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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3 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Takedown Combo gets removed after a successful hit, so it doesn't matter how long its duration is as long as you can hit the enemy within that duration. It's a bonus for 1 hit only.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but the description is not accurate. I don't remember takedown being removed at all. https://pillarsofeternity2.wiki.fextralife.com/Takedown+Combo

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Posted (edited)

I soloed with a Geomancer who used Takedown Combo excessively. If they didn't change the implementation it's exactly how I said. The description states the duration of Takedown Combo - bit it's the timespan during which you need to hit the enemy to trigger the one-time bonus.

Once Takedown Combo is applied (as hostile effect on the enemy) the next successful hit during that duration receives +100% and then the effect gets removed. This means that if you use a Blunderbuss to execute that attack your first pellet will get +100% and the remaining 3 will not.

I can't test atm because on vacation - but I'm pretty sure this mechanic didn't change. Because else it would be crazy OP in a party formation.

Also the description says "the next attack" (singular). 

Edited by Boeroer

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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22 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Once Takedown Combo is applied (as hostile effect on the enemy) the next successful hit during that duration receives +100% and then the effect gets removed. This means that if you use a Blunderbuss to execute that attack your first pellet will get +100% and the remaining 3 will not.

You're right :)

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 I am noob but I never liked the ranger class, in PoE I it was not good, not cool at all, I hope in PoE II it might turn out better, I never played a ranger in PoE II ... 

😄

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On 6/8/2019 at 2:34 PM, IamNOOB said:

 I am noob but I never liked the ranger class, in PoE I it was not good, not cool at all, I hope in PoE II it might turn out better, I never played a ranger in PoE II ... 

😄

I feel like they were just a vessel for Stormcaller in PoE1.

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In the latest version of PoE1, Rangers were a powerful class because :
- Pet was quite strong
- Twin Arrows bascially doubled their DPS with bows
- Driving Flight added a bit of AoE as a damage multiplicator
- Stunning Shots provided recursive CC.

Stormcaller was incredibly convenient (acquired relatively early, not requiring rare components for upgrade), but was arguably not even the best weapon for Ranger (Pesistence for example was the best for pure DPS).

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Posted (edited)

I like rangers but I think they are better single classed. Otherwise the pet is too vulnerable as you don't have the ability points spent on it to make it tough. Also it's a "pet", not a substitute tank... if you put on the front line with eder he will die often. Stalker is best if you want to fight hand-to-hand

Edited by ArnoldRimmer

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56 minutes ago, ArnoldRimmer said:

I like rangers but I think they are better single classed. Otherwise the pet is too vulnerable as you don't have the ability points spent on it to make it tough. Also it's a "pet", not a substitute tank... if you put on the front line with eder he will die often. Stalker is best if you want to fight hand-to-hand

The pet is not going to hold the line because it's frail and it dies too fast. But it can hold against single targets that are also threatened by the ranger. After your tanks pin the enemy frontline the pet has some room to move so you can pick rogues/spellcasters and give them pain. This is the real value of rangers, the ability to eliminate dangerous targets from afar with unmatched accuracy.

You don't have to invest a single skill point on the pet if you don't want to. If the pet dies, use a paladin or a chanter to revive it. Or you can go ghost heart because in the end paying 1 bond for summoning the pet is cheaper than paying 2 to heal/revive it.

 

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