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14 minutes ago, thelee said:

mule kick doesn't interrupt per se. however, it will knock up dorudugan and cause it to require to stand back up again, even though normally prone (which is an interrupt) is prevented by concentration or interrupt immunity. the same thing is true for monk's knock up ability. this also works on the oracle and the memory hoarder in FS (who are interrupt immune). edit - unlike a true interrupt, knock up alone won't waste the enemy's resource when properly done during their action. however, you can mess up AI scripting a bit to buy yourself more time because enemies don't always try the same action again--they might do some other stuff for a while. 

more importantly, for a tactician, the brief window when an enemy is knocked up in the air, they are treated by the game as not being in combat. this can be bad if you have attacks or spells in mid-flight, because they'll whiff against the enemy. for a tactician, though, that brief window is enough that--if that was the only enemy around--you temporarily gain briliant. you lose brilliant as soon as the enemy lands back on the ground and re-enters combat, but a second or so of brilliant is all you need to restore a resource. in my ultimate run i would mule kick enemies if they were the only ones around, to help restore resources for the priest half of my character.

 

Would all this apply to turn-based as well?

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4 minutes ago, Lampros said:

Would all this apply to turn-based as well?

yes. i think it'd be harder to time the mule kick properly (i don't quite know how delaying your turn works especially when it come to cast times), but you would halt any currently active action. unfortunately, in turn-based, the enemy might just rev up their action on the immediate next turn, so you'd have to keep it up.

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1 minute ago, thelee said:

yes. i think it'd be harder to time the mule kick properly (i don't quite know how delaying your turn works especially when it come to cast times), but you would halt any currently active action. unfortunately, in turn-based, the enemy might just rev up their action on the immediate next turn, so you'd have to keep it up.

I see; I recall the video was turn-based though. It's just that the audio was difficult to understand for me to know precisely what was going on. It seems like the biggest dilemma I am having in finalizing my party composition has to do whether I want to try to attempt the mega-bosses or not. If I do, it probably requires a tank, Priest, Cipher, etc. and ways to reduce incoming damage as much as possible. So I was curious about Mule Kick - which this guy claimed act as a virtual stun in turn-based.

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19 hours ago, thelee said:

yes. i think it'd be harder to time the mule kick properly (i don't quite know how delaying your turn works especially when it come to cast times), but you would halt any currently active action. unfortunately, in turn-based, the enemy might just rev up their action on the immediate next turn, so you'd have to keep it up.

Delaying actions in this mode is the most lazy and simplistic implementation possible. You simply move to the end of the turn order. Its sadly not possible to effectively use it to interrupt enemy actions.

Edited by Haplok
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41 minutes ago, Haplok said:

Delaying actions in this mode is the most lazy and simplistic implementation possible. You simply move to the end of the turn order. Its sadly not possible to effectively use it to interrupt enemy actions.

Wait, so if you have multiple Mule Kickers, then the AI would theoretically never do anything since he'd be trying to complete the prior turn's action?

Is that what happened here? The audio is really difficult on my end, so I could not completely make him out:

Edit: I was curious that this video had 5 downvotes and 0 upvotes. So I am wondering if those who saw the video didn't think this was the right approach?

Edited by Lampros
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interesting - so i assumed that mule kick would act a lot like a prone in turn-based mode, which is simply an initiative delay. the video shows that the "knock up" effect lasts the entire round, so dorudugan stays down. i have a hard time figuring out what else is going on, so i don't know if the monk skyward kick is critical to stunlocking dorudugan. the big thing is that you need a generous amount of accuracy to hit dorudugan with mule kick; even with turn-based mode's more generous graze range, dorudugan has sky high fortitude defense.

think what's happening is that both mule kick and skyward kick expire their 1 round "knock up" duration when the person who did the action gets a turn again. so if you have two characters A and B who can both knock up, you have both use it, and by the time it's A's turn, dorudugan would try to stand up, but it still has a remaining knock up duration from B. So A mule kicks again, refreshing the knock up duration, and by the time dorudugan would try to stand up on B's turn, they are still affected by A's knock up. you would definitely needs lots of accuracy and/or redundancy to ensure this works (~180 accuracy to have 100% chance of landing mule kick). I see they use morning star modal, which would help alot (-25). I think returning storm might be for the might affliction for another -10. a monk could land sickened for another -10. single-weapon style (doesn't look like the video poster used it) would give a free +12 accuracy. devotions would give another +10. you'd need brilliant to keep everything up.

turn-based mode rounding ironically would make this strategy work a bit better because dorudugan's high resolve wouldn't matter, the durations of stuff would get rounded up to a minimum of 1 round.

 

4 hours ago, Lampros said:

Edit: I was curious that this video had 5 downvotes and 0 upvotes. So I am wondering if those who saw the video didn't think this was the right approach?

probably has downvotes because the audio is so poor quality it's almost impossible to tell what's happening

Edited by thelee
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38 minutes ago, thelee said:

interesting - so i assumed that mule kick would act a lot like a prone in turn-based mode, which is simply an initiative delay. the video shows that the "knock up" effect lasts the entire round, so dorudugan stays down. i have a hard time figuring out what else is going on, so i don't know if the monk skyward kick is critical to stunlocking dorudugan. the big thing is that you need a generous amount of accuracy to hit dorudugan with mule kick; even with turn-based mode's more generous graze range, dorudugan has sky high fortitude defense.

think what's happening is that both mule kick and skyward kick expire their 1 round "knock up" duration when the person who did the action gets a turn again. so if you have two characters A and B who can both knock up, you have both use it, and by the time it's A's turn, dorudugan would try to stand up, but it still has a remaining knock up duration from B. So A mule kicks again, refreshing the knock up duration, and by the time dorudugan would try to stand up on B's turn, they are still affected by A's knock up. you would definitely needs lots of accuracy and/or redundancy to ensure this works (~180 accuracy to have 100% chance of landing mule kick). I see they use morning star modal, which would help alot (-25). I think returning storm might be for the might affliction for another -10. a monk could land sickened for another -10. single-weapon style (doesn't look like the video poster used it) would give a free +12 accuracy. devotions would give another +10. you'd need brilliant to keep everything up.

turn-based mode rounding ironically would make this strategy work a bit better because dorudugan's high resolve wouldn't matter, the durations of stuff would get rounded up to a minimum of 1 round.

 

probably has downvotes because the audio is so poor quality it's almost impossible to tell what's happening

Yes, that is what I am thinking was happening, too. So you'd need 2 characters who can spam knock-up effects. In one of the turns, the mega-boss does get up and performs some sort of an AoE melee attack. So I assume that's because one of the "kickers" missed - meaning this is not a bullet-proof tactic either.

I am glad I wasn't the only person to have issues with the audio. My speakers are sort of broken, so I thought it was just an issue on my end!

Edit: By the way, how long do you imagine this tactic would take on turn-based to kill that thing? The Youtuber didn't post the whole thing.

Edited by Lampros
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