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Are the Huana the worst? [spoilers]


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#21
TamTiTam

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At least, in Huana culture, people seriously believe in the responsibility to care for the wellbeing of the lower caste.

 
PILES OF BODIES

 


 

You do have a point there.
But we don't really know why there is not eough food for the roparu in Neketaka. Maybe it would be different without of the constant struggle against the Vailians, Principi and RCD (taking their stuff, skills and lands, producing more and more roparu)


Edited by TamTiTam, 22 December 2018 - 06:28 PM.


#22
Pus-in-Boots

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You do have a point there.

But we don't really know why there is not eough food for the roparu in Neketaka. Maybe it would be different without of the constant struggle against the Vailians, Principi and RCD (taking their stuff, skills and lands, producing more and more roparu)

 

 

It is just speculation. Perhaps, perhaps not. The state of the undercity of Neketaka didn't inspire my to give them a chance. I get it that people sympathize with the natives. I usually do too. Predatory/parasitic imperialism is bad. But sometimes natives just govern themselves horribly.


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#23
Mirandel

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My Watcher does not support anyone, but only because she is not their assassin for hire. If not for the last quest I would support Huana if only to give the nation a chance to survive.

 
And what makes you think that the nation is worthy of surviving?

 

 
The fact that my Watcher is no God to decide which nation should live and which should die?
 

Because it is there? I'm far from being a SJW and those bodies in the Old City ruins don't convice me that the Huana can govern themselves on a larger scale than a village. I haven't seen such a collection of cadavers beneath Defiance Bay, for instance.


Are you sure you played POE1? Because catacombs, graveyards, castles and even streets were very impressive dead-bodies-wise. Remember that lovely tree in Gilded Vale?
 
All nations - without exception - had in the past a stage with horrible mistreating of the citizens. Huana is in transition to the better society right now, if other nations will not destroy them. I can only wish them luck and help with what I can.
 
Btw, those "piles of bodies" ARE the criminals (by Huana laws) and - logically - result of bandits rule over Gullet (we can thank Principi for that).
 

am not sure what is "ts," but am recognizing straw man when we see it. ain't seen anybody suggest huana need be paragon o' a modern sjw to avoid being deemed a failure.

 
"TS" is "Topic Starter", in our case - Pus-in-Boots. And list of his disgust of Huana is a disgust of someone from a very modern world where all kind of benefits to the poor is a norm.
 

describe all that has been done to huana by valians, rdc and pirates is not making huana any more deserving o' praise.

 

Never said they deserve any praise, but they do deserve a chance. If anything, all other factions already very clear with direction of their development, while Huana can turn any way.

Huana is the only nation we can see "at home" - the rest are foreigners here (including Watcher). And what can be said for sure, at least Huana do not prey on other nations, while other three are eating them and each other.

 

They are all "bad", if you so sure you have right to judge, but I do not see how Huana are the worst.


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#24
Pus-in-Boots

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The fact that my Watcher is no God to decide which nation should live and which should die?

 

The game places you in that position. You can decide about the fate of the Huana, God or no. Not choosing is just an abandonment of responsibility and an instigation of the rule of chaos.

 

 

Are you sure you played POE1? Because catacombs, graveyards, castles and even streets were very impressive dead-bodies-wise. Remember that lovely tree in Gilded Vale?

 
All nations - without exception - had in the past a stage with horrible mistreating of the citizens. Huana is in transition to the better society right now, if other nations will not destroy them. I can only wish them luck and help with what I can.
 
Btw, those "piles of bodies" ARE the criminals (by Huana laws) and - logically - result of bandits rule over Gullet (we can thank Principi for that).

 

Not so impressive as rotting piles of bodies beneath Neketaka. Catacombs and graveyards were, at least in part, old. And the tree? How many kith were there? And it was a desperate situation caused by crisis-induced madness of a local nobleman. Not an expected product of a deliberately implemented social system.

 

Also, why the roparu most likely turn to crime? Because they aren't very inclined to eat gooy, fun snacks from a pile of refuse provided for them by the higher castes. Do you really think this is justice and is this an alluring circumstance for you that promises the brighter future? I think not. I think it demonstrates that the Huana stick to rigid, morderous traditions. Even inspector Javert sentenced Valjean (for stealing because of starvation) to hard labor and not straight to his death, off as another corpse on one of many piles beneath the city. And Paris has an impressive system of canals, as Victor Hugo would tell you. Many corpses would fit there.


Edited by Pus-in-Boots, 23 December 2018 - 02:43 PM.

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#25
Gromnir

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Huana is the only nation we can see "at home" - the rest are foreigners here (including Watcher).

 

 

 

and so we come full circle, eh?

 

"am thinking folks is reflexive sympathetic towards real world indigenous peoples"

 

thanks.

 

HA! Good Fun!


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#26
Verde

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Huana play the victim's card - they hate other factions but need em anyway. Remember, it was their stubborn, foolish King who let Thaos and Co. in.

Edited by Verde, 23 December 2018 - 03:16 PM.


#27
uuuhhii

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Huana play the victim's card - they hate other factions but need em anyway. Remember, it was their stubborn, foolish King who let Thaos and Co. in.

engwithan also have od nua

it seems like a theme with the poe



#28
Mirandel

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The fact that my Watcher is no God to decide which nation should live and which should die?

The game places you in that position. You can decide about the fate of the Huana, God or no. Not choosing is just an abandonment of responsibility and an instigation of the rule of chaos.

 


The game only present you a situation. What your character is doing in that situation - is up to your character (in a good game. And PoE 2 IS good).
Should I come across a "red button" starting a nuclear war in real life, I would not try to push it, just because I've got an opportunity.
 

 

Are you sure you played POE1? Because catacombs, graveyards, castles and even streets were very impressive dead-bodies-wise. Remember that lovely tree in Gilded Vale?

All nations - without exception - had in the past a stage with horrible mistreating of the citizens. Huana is in transition to the better society right now, if other nations will not destroy them. I can only wish them luck and help with what I can.

Btw, those "piles of bodies" ARE the criminals (by Huana laws) and - logically - result of bandits rule over Gullet (we can thank Principi for that).


Not so impressive as rotting piles of bodies beneath Neketaka. Catacombs and graveyards were, at least in part, old. And the tree? How many kith were there? And it was a desperate situation caused by crisis-induced madness of a local nobleman. Not an expected product of a deliberately implemented social system.

Also, why the roparu most likely turn to crime? Because they aren't very inclined to eat gooy, fun snacks from a pile of refuse provided for them by the higher castes. Do you really think this is justice and is this an alluring circumstance for you that promises the brighter future? I think not. I think it demonstrates that the Huana stick to rigid, morderous traditions. Even inspector Javert sentenced Valjean (for stealing because of starvation) to hard labor and not straight to his death, off as another corpse on one of many piles beneath the city. And Paris has an impressive system of canals, as Victor Hugo would tell you. Many corpses would fit there.

 


And again, totally ignoring the stage of the society here. Having one mad ruler allowed to kill so many people (really? you are comparing numbers?! How many is OK for you to have killed on a regular basis?) - is a shame for Deerwoodians. Being that socially evolved, yet killing, experimenting on people, tolerating murders and so on - inexcusable. Huana only began their journey. And already you are able to explain to them necessity of changes. They are changing their ways (and faster with your help) instead of flat refusing. That is far from "rigid". No other nation is even thinking about changes.

But I am preaching to a deaf ear if you compare dramatic background of a "dead city" in the game to the catacombs of a real city with a writer as a solid source of information.
 

 

Huana is the only nation we can see "at home" - the rest are foreigners here (including Watcher).



and so we come full circle, eh?

"am thinking folks is reflexive sympathetic towards real world indigenous peoples"

thanks.

HA! Good Fun!

 


How come "the only one we see at home" equals "you are sympathetic to the real world indigenous peoples"? What I meant is, dead bodies count and horrors of other societies in their homes are not so obvious to paint them all white. Though their behavior in Deadfire does not make them look good.


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#29
InsaneCommander

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Huana play the victim's card - they hate other factions but need em anyway. Remember, it was their stubborn, foolish King who let Thaos and Co. in.

 

Loved that part of SSS when we learn what happened in the Deadfire. Maybe they were better at governing themselves back them.



#30
Verde

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Huana play the victim's card - they hate other factions but need em anyway. Remember, it was their stubborn, foolish King who let Thaos and Co. in.


Loved that part of SSS when we learn what happened in the Deadfire. Maybe they were better at governing themselves back them.

Ah I didn't play :/ mind spoiling it for me?

#31
InsaneCommander

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Huana play the victim's card - they hate other factions but need em anyway. Remember, it was their stubborn, foolish King who let Thaos and Co. in.


Loved that part of SSS when we learn what happened in the Deadfire. Maybe they were better at governing themselves back them.

Ah I didn't play :/ mind spoiling it for me?

 

Spoiler


#32
Verde

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Ah those tricky scoundrels!

#33
Cartoons Plural

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huana is our social order with the facade peeled away, so yes

#34
Pus-in-Boots

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Huana play the victim's card - they hate other factions but need em anyway. Remember, it was their stubborn, foolish King who let Thaos and Co. in.


Loved that part of SSS when we learn what happened in the Deadfire. Maybe they were better at governing themselves back them.

Ah I didn't play :/ mind spoiling it for me?

 

Spoiler

 

 

Isn't that from The Beast of Winter though?



#35
InsaneCommander

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Huana play the victim's card - they hate other factions but need em anyway. Remember, it was their stubborn, foolish King who let Thaos and Co. in.


Loved that part of SSS when we learn what happened in the Deadfire. Maybe they were better at governing themselves back them.

Ah I didn't play :/ mind spoiling it for me?

 

Spoiler

 

 

Isn't that from The Beast of Winter though?

 

No, it's from SSS.

 

Spoiler

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#36
Tagaziel

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Not so impressive as rotting piles of bodies beneath Neketaka. Catacombs and graveyards were, at least in part, old.


The Defiance Bay riots that have hordes of bloodthirsty Dyrwoodans take to the streets murdering animancers left and right come to mind. Or Readceran fanaticism. Or arbitrary abductions by the Steel Garrote. Or... You're taking an example of the Huana extant governance struggling to scale up as evidence that the system is unfixable.

I'm not a big fan of the Huana caste system, but the broader point here is that the Huana can and will change if they gain access to Ukaizo, their long-lost heritage denied them by Engwithans.

And the tree? How many kith were there? And it was a desperate situation caused by crisis-induced madness of a local nobleman. Not an expected product of a deliberately implemented social system.


That's an excuse if I ever saw one. You're ignoring the fact that this was a an example of a deliberately implemented social system at work, i.e. a local noble ruler preying on the local population with no oversight. It's a fundamental flaw with Dyrwoodan society and governance. Another flaw is the fact that your claim to Caed Nua can be contested by another noble leading to a full-out battle.

What happens at Neketaka is not the expected product, because you can (and should) fix it. It's a bug, not a feature. If you want to dismiss it, sure, but then you have to dismiss every society in existence, fictional or otherwise.
 

Also, why the roparu most likely turn to crime? Because they aren't very inclined to eat gooy, fun snacks from a pile of refuse provided for them by the higher castes. Do you really think this is justice and is this an alluring circumstance for you that promises the brighter future? I think not. I think it demonstrates that the Huana stick to rigid, morderous traditions. Even inspector Javert sentenced Valjean (for stealing because of starvation) to hard labor and not straight to his death, off as another corpse on one of many piles beneath the city. And Paris has an impressive system of canals, as Victor Hugo would tell you. Many corpses would fit there.


Note that most of the Mataru and Kuaru aren't even aware of the situation down in the Gullet. Tekehu is a fine example of this ignorance - and ignorance breeds neglect.
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#37
ilsendoodle

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I'd say Huana are the best in terms of 1) endings, 2) theorycrafting, and 3) unsavory things they make you do in game in support of their endings.  If you support RDC, but then refuse to kill the queen, which is unsavory, they attack you.  Queen doesn't make you do anything bad at that point.  Everyone else wants you to kill people or blow stuff up.  In terms of endings, pirates are obviously out.  Can't get behind RDC militancy.  Valians might be okay, second best probably, but they support a lot of ugly stuff and will clearly exploit/abandon the area.  Huana have best claim to the region and the caste system is obviously bad, but its their religion/culture.  They needed that as to not be the slam dunk best choice that the developers obviously wanted to avoid.  I can see some people might put Valians first, although I disagree, but no way Huana are last.    


Edited by ilsendoodle, 27 December 2018 - 05:12 PM.

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#38
uuuhhii

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I'd say Huana are the best in terms of 1) endings, 2) theorycrafting, and 3) unsavory things they make you do in game in support of their endings.  If you support RDC, but then refuse to kill the queen, which is unsavory, they attack you.  Queen doesn't make you do anything bad at that point.  Everyone else wants you to kill people or blow stuff up.  In terms of endings, pirates are obviously out.  Can't get behind RDC militancy.  Valians might be okay, second best probably, but they support a lot of ugly stuff and will clearly exploit/abandon the area.  Huana have best claim to the region and the caste system is obviously bad, but its their religion/culture.  They needed that as to not be the slam dunk best choice that the developers obviously wanted to avoid.  I can see some people might put Valians first, although I disagree, but no way Huana are last.    

the same refuse assassin queen trick work on vtc too

and castol are the only ending choice can compare with huana

but the sell soul thing and the fact castol are not one of the big shareholder make this choice very unstable



#39
Vaneglorious

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I think the only unredeemable faction is the pirate one. I mean, all they want is either to sow chaos or to enslave. Nothing productive or good can come out of it.

 

The other three factions could all be okay with some reforms, changes here and there. I personally think Rautai is the least evil of them all. Naturally, they are far from perfect, they are highly imperialistic, but they bring order, security and trade. The Vailians also improve on order, security and economy, but their main goal seems to be exploiting the Huana lands. The Huana have backwards traditions that halts any kind of meaningful progress, and the ruling tribe (Kahanga) seems really oppressive towards their own lower caste, not to mention a caste system is extremely backwards on its own.

 

So for me, in a best-to-worst order, right now:

1. RDC

2. Kahanga

3. VTC

4. Pirates


Edited by Vaneglorious, 30 December 2018 - 01:23 PM.


#40
Pus-in-Boots

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I think the only unredeemable faction is the pirate one. I mean, all they want is either to sow chaos or to enslave. Nothing productive or good can come out of it.

 

The other three factions could all be okay with some reforms, changes here and there. I personally think Rautai is the least evil of them all. Naturally, they are far from perfect, they are highly imperialistic, but they bring order, security and trade. The Vailians also improve on order, security and economy, but their main goal seems to be exploiting the Huana lands. The Huana have backwards traditions that halts any kind of meaningful progress, and the ruling tribe (Kahanga) seems really oppressive towards their own lower caste, not to mention a caste system is extremely backwards on its own.

 

So for me, in a best-to-worst order, right now:

1. RDC

2. Kahanga

3. VTC

4. Pirates

 

I would rate VTC above the Kahanga because of the animancy. I consider the prospect of scientific progress very promising, giving hope for better understanding of the life itself and for dethroning the Eoran pantheon. I'm aware however that animancy can be used for evil, like in the case of Engwithians.


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