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TURN BASED combat in Deadfire?!


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#21
InsaneCommander

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Then there's other things like how would engagement even work?

 

I understand that many people prefer turn based, but just imagining an enemy going around my tank is enough for me to want to stick to RTwP. :p But let's see how they deal with this and other problems.

 

If this makes battles longer, then I'll definitely play with RTwP because it took a lot of time for me to finish my first pt. One way or another, it's a great option for players.


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#22
Daled

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I'm really happy for this and eager to try it out but to make it work a lot of changes are needed to the rules and even after fixing that many combat encounters would strech for an unbearable amount of time if the number of NPCs (most of the time enemies) stays the same, I find unlikely that they'll rebalance all encounters for this mode.

 

Edit: I don't know if someone already posted this somewhere else but it seems something else might have been slipped out 

 

https://old.reddit.c...ship_combat_ui/


Edited by Daled, 20 December 2018 - 05:13 PM.

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#23
protopersona

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I'm really happy for this and eager to try it out but to make it work a lot of changes are needed to the rules and even after fixing that many combat encounters would strech for an unbearable amount of time if the number of NPCs (most of the time enemies) stays the same, I find unlikely that they'll rebalance all encounters for this mode.

I'm fine with longer encounters if it means I have more room to make tactical choices. Currently I've been mindlessly firing off the same rotation in every combat and only changing anything if there's something to react to.



#24
Saito Hikari

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I'm really happy for this and eager to try it out but to make it work a lot of changes are needed to the rules and even after fixing that many combat encounters would strech for an unbearable amount of time if the number of NPCs (most of the time enemies) stays the same, I find unlikely that they'll rebalance all encounters for this mode.

 

They probably will rebalance most, if not all encounters around this. Mostly the superbosses and ending DLC/dragon fights especially. They've already tweaked individual encounters before.

 

It's likely the reason why when this patch went live for the hour and a half that it was available, only new games had the option and no one noticed it on existing saves. The game just won't let you switch between either mode at once.


Edited by Saito Hikari, 20 December 2018 - 05:17 PM.

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#25
Lamppost in Winter

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aKztz1Z.png

 

 

I slightly prefer TB to RTWP so if they pull this off well and manage to convert and balance everything well then mad props honestly.


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#26
Zinnwaldite

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Tried it for a bit. Was fun in the early game at least, but i have no idea how it would feel later on.



#27
AndreaColombo

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I commend Obsidian for their commitment to supporting Deadfire long after its release, not giving up on it despite the fact that it probably didn’t sell as much as expected, and listening to player feedback.

I too prefer RTwP but if there can be an option for TB, that’s great. I’m all for player options and flexibility—and where else would you find a game that offers this kind of flexibility?

Looks like there’s at least one more big patch to go, then :)

EDIT: I’m also intrigued by that new ship combat UI.

Edited by AndreaColombo, 20 December 2018 - 11:34 PM.

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#28
Manveru123

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Then there's other things like how would engagement even work?

 

I understand that many people prefer turn based, but just imagining an enemy going around my tank is enough for me to want to stick to RTwP. :p But let's see how they deal with this and other problems.

 

If this makes battles longer, then I'll definitely play with RTwP because it took a lot of time for me to finish my first pt. One way or another, it's a great option for players.

 

RTwP is fantastic in this game because of scripts. Normally, if you have a big group, micromanagement is a beach. But with scripts, you skip most of that!


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#29
Saito Hikari

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The more I think about this, the more I wish Obsidian just let us test this turn-based mode through the holidays while making it clear that this was an accidental release and it's still in a rather unfinished state. Call it an early Christmas gift to the fans that bought the game or something.

 

I am already theorycrafting possible mechanics and builds for turn-based mode that most people probably wouldn't even bother with in RTwP mode, although it all hinges on how engagement/attack of opportunities are handled. If it works the way I think it does (merely moving past a non-blinded/immobilized melee character provokes an attack of opportunity), reach weapons/equipment that specifically boosts or counters attack of opportunities are going to see a LOT more use.

 

This leak did tell me some important things, however. Obsidian isn't going to half-ass turn-based mode if they kept this under wraps for MONTHS. The fact that this was only accessible through a new playthrough rather than allowing us to switch on the fly means that if you choose to go turn-based, you're going to essentially play an entirely rebalanced game designed specifically for turn-based combat.


Edited by Saito Hikari, 21 December 2018 - 01:24 AM.

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#30
Silvaren

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Then there's other things like how would engagement even work?

 

I understand that many people prefer turn based, but just imagining an enemy going around my tank is enough for me to want to stick to RTwP. :p But let's see how they deal with this and other problems.

 

If this makes battles longer, then I'll definitely play with RTwP because it took a lot of time for me to finish my first pt. One way or another, it's a great option for players.

 

Engagement can be solved just the same as in D&D. Ofcourse without attacks of oportunity while someone cast spell near enemy, but walking nearby - yes.

 

The Temple of Elemental Evil done this right. Every character and monster have threat range. Enemies running in or out of this range provokes attack of oportunity. Number of possible engagement can determine how many of those attacks can be performed.


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#31
Quillon

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RTwP is best when the game's fully 3D/with custom viewing angles for clarity & fun :p TB might be better on the 2D maps of PoE but I prefer RTwP either way.



#32
Wormerine

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RTwP is fantastic in this game because of scripts. Normally, if you have a big group, micromanagement is a beach. But with scripts, you skip most of that!


What’s the fun in not playing the game? I have everyone on autoattack (and occasional no AI if I want to time my recovery) and manage every ability use. It’s way more fun that way, than watching figurines smash it out with little imput from yours truly (what can I say - I am a control freak).

Edited by Wormerine, 21 December 2018 - 02:42 AM.


#33
Manveru123

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RTwP is fantastic in this game because of scripts. Normally, if you have a big group, micromanagement is a beach. But with scripts, you skip most of that!


What’s the fun in not playing the game? I have everyone on autoattack (and occasional no AI if I want to time my recovery) and manage every ability use. It’s way more fun that way, than watching figurines smash it out with little imput from yours truly (what can I say - I am a control freak).

 

It gets extremely tedious after a while. Most non-boss fights look exactly the same: I always use the same abilities in the same order, because it works best. Why wouldn't I want to automate it? In my opinion customizable scripts is the second greatest thing in Deadfire (after Eder).

 

It's the same with stuff like pre-buffing in other games of this type. Like in Kingmaker you can have a party of 6, but I always run with 4 people just to cut down on tedious buffing between each rest.



#34
gkathellar

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WANT

 

 

 

RTwP is fantastic in this game because of scripts. Normally, if you have a big group, micromanagement is a beach. But with scripts, you skip most of that!


What’s the fun in not playing the game? I have everyone on autoattack (and occasional no AI if I want to time my recovery) and manage every ability use. It’s way more fun that way, than watching figurines smash it out with little imput from yours truly (what can I say - I am a control freak).

 

It gets extremely tedious after a while. Most non-boss fights look exactly the same: I always use the same abilities in the same order, because it works best. Why wouldn't I want to automate it? In my opinion customizable scripts is the second greatest thing in Deadfire (after Eder).

 

It's the same with stuff like pre-buffing in other games of this type. Like in Kingmaker you can have a party of 6, but I always run with 4 people just to cut down on tedious buffing between each rest.

 

A lot of that is a function of having too many fights.

 

Tbh, for all that I like both PoEs, they've given me a newfound respect for the pacing of tactics RPGs, where fights tend to be long and involved enough that they can also be relatively few in number and integrated more fully into the narrative. So you might have a "drake and boars fight," but you'd only have one, instead of three.


Edited by gkathellar, 21 December 2018 - 04:16 AM.


#35
juanval

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Why to develop a new game when you can implement turn based combat and multiplayer in a GOTY rpg game?

If technically is possible, turn combat feature is a great idea.

Perhaps we can see one day PoE3 with 2 combat options and multiplayer ;)

#36
Ancelor

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TB for POE will be a dream come true for me. I've been thinking about combining POE with first dos when they both came out. Recovery will need serious rework though

#37
gloomseeker

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I prefer turn based games myself. No need to hit the space key so much. :)



#38
Triple - A Foxy Lad

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the great virtue of rtwp is being able to steamroll trivial mobs. the devs can safely provide enough of them to give a sense of activity without slowing the game down. also it gives the players a chance to mindlessly enjoy their power for stretches. if every battle is meaningful it can numb a sense of mastery over the world

 

turn based games - that arent attrition based like jrpgs and wizardry - hinge on having talented set piece designers. u have too many trash encounters and the game becomes a chore. too few, and the game feels empty - also if game consists of only a few impeccably sculpted tactical challenges, replayability suffers because everything is a puzzle u solve only once.

 

that said, i dont have a great preference either way. varietys the spice of love and life etc.

 

if they do seriously have a crack at implementing turn-based combat in deadfire, then ill be very eager to play it. i might even try to push the game on a couple of friends who might find the rushing river of rtwp overwhelming.


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#39
MaxQuest

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How do "action speed" and "recovery time" modifiers translate to this turn-based mode?

#40
Wormerine

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I wonder if it will be getting inspirations from Josh's tabletop design.






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