What PoE2 needs to become an rpg masterpiece...? (SPOILERS)

[Urokor 2]

Alright, I just finished the game, over 70 hours of gameplay. Yet, I don't know, I have this feeling of, empty in my belly. Really enjoyed the playthrough, the random companion chitchats, and every single part of the game. It really is one of the best games I've played in a lot of time, but like I said before, i feel kind of empty or dissapointed from some stuff. So here is a List of the things I think that if improved in game, this game could become an incredible piece of an RPG to be enjoyed by the future generations. Because as it is RN, Its good, but. I dont think it will have a space in my heart such as other incredible RPG's.

 

Game

-Chatting with an npc sometimes makes your companions staying away and thus, not getting their stat boosts for conversations, even tho they participate in the conversation.

 

-Stealth is rlly clumsy.

 

-Optimization with particles and effects.

 

-Feeling alone in a sea FULL of pirates(?. I got this feeling, that sometimes sea traveling is really straight in a game supposed to be played around the sea. I mean, music from crew singing is cool. But I got to a part in the game that all the ships would completely ignore me. Also, I could do 5-6 trips from isle to isle with nothing happening. It would be Lovely to have more sea events, and a LOT more crew events and interactions, in 70 hours i could barely get 4 crew events lul.

 

Companions

Ok this is super important, even tho each companion has its side-quest, conversation,etc,etc. It left me really really REALLY sad that there is no deep development on the companions, I mean, yes, depending on your actions you get endings for each one... But still, this is a huge suggestion that I think all players think in the same way as I do, the lack of conversation is just depressing, I managed to get Eder and Xoti reputations to max in the first 5 hours of gameplay, I took my time to do their quests, but after that. Nothing, even I managed to have a relation with Xoti, i got nothing, no interactions no special conversations, no nothing. I have to read the same conversations 65 hours just to keep my mind busy and hoping I would unlock something else. But sadly, I didnt, that was all.

 

Adding at least  a level 3 reputation, with a level 4 being like a blessing for role-players. And more intuitive and huge companion conversations would be incredible, conversations with most companions are really simple tbh It feels like interacting with WoW npc for a "King's Honor, friend". More quests, more interactions.  Not asking maia about her bird over and over...

 

ENDINGS:

 

Ok, so this was the most depressing part of the WHOLE game, after such a long gameplay I was expecting more, this left me completely depressed. Alone, at 3am, wanting to know more about my companions. Expecting an ending scene with the romanced companion, some "[insert companion name] and the watcher travel back home on a long journey, adventures await them".

 

I know that an open window was left for future games, or something similar. But still, all endings are too unrewarding for everything I did. Got nothing from the Watcher dispositions, no "The watcher will be remembered from its kind and wise words" or "The watcher is to be remembered in deadfire, as a strong simbol of cruelty, yet, he/she/it was a hero".

 

I still live with the dream of seeing Xoti and the watcher leave deadfire in the ship, watching each other and after some "Xoti and the watcher forged such a wonderful bond, that they left, to build a future together"  and a banishing and the credits <3. Or any other thing that would leave me crying from happiness xd.

 

I know it is really impossible that they would change some things like that in the game, but dreams never die folks. 

 

That and some more stuff I got in my are things I would change/add to PoE2. If they wish their game to be kept in our hearts such as masterpieces like baldur gate, NWN, divinity, Mass Affect.

 

Would be awesome to read what everyone else think, thanks! and have a good day

 

 

 

[Verde 516]

A PoE 3

[InsaneCommander 3,054]

A PoE 3

 

And one day the devs would put them together in a trilogy.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad 238]

Masterpieces only happen by mistake imo - most of them are flawed to **** one way or another but they transcend by virtue of nailing one aspect or whole being greater than sum of its parts.

 

I dont think trying to create them is a great idea. Perfect is the enemy of the good etc.

 

Also no one agrees on what masterpiece is. I personally dont feel Larian have made anything remotely in that category, tho i enjoy most of their games well enough.

 

I stan Mass Effect 2. I legit feel thats one of biowares god tier efforts, but not 1 and 3. and what sets it apart is the feeling of isolation and dissolution, not any particular design decision.

 

As for the nwn series, think only mask of the betrayer warrants that title. Think u could make an argument for the psychedelic lunacy of hordes of the underdark as well, if only because it commits so hard to being epic level its hard not to bask in its enthusiasm.

 

Also poe leans heavily towards 'anti-resolution' for want of a better word. If u want any kinda catharsis, u have to apply ur own reading or play something else.

 

As for the companions and romances etc. I love that stuff. Ive wasted a small fortune on visual novels and so forth. Ive written romance in my spare time. However its not what i play obs games for. I dont mind them having a crack at it, but ive ignored all of the romance options in deadfire so far.

 

I grow attached to my companions in rpgs cos they share the road with me. Anything they do or say is secondary to that.

 

In bg I was mega attached to imoen (ye ye i suck and im part of the problem. Stone me if ye want) simply bcs she was the only person from candlekeep - and ur childhood - who gave up their life to stand by you. She couldve eaten kittens and talked utter gibberish after that for all i cared. The character concept and backstory was all i needed from that game.

[Dryden 37]

What Triple said! But I'm just happy if we get a pillars 3 at all

[uuuhhii 195]

far surpass expectation

but without a good poe3

deadfire will be another “what it could have been” regretful memory for rpg players

Edited November 18, 2018 by uuuhhii

[Hawke64 270]

I think, PoEII already is a masterpiece. At least, it's the best RPG I've played this year. Though, I'd prefer it to be shorter (~40 hours) and to be launched as a complete and finished product (i.e. no balance changes or DLCs).

[anameforobsidian 858]

Pillars II is the second best rpg I've played in the new CRPG Renaissance.  The first was White March.

[topologista 115]

eothas romance dlc

[Verde 516]

Masterpieces only happen by mistake imo - most of them are flawed to **** one way or another but they transcend by virtue of nailing one aspect or whole being greater than sum of its parts.

 

I dont think trying to create them is a great idea. Perfect is the enemy of the good etc.

 

Also no one agrees on what masterpiece is. I personally dont feel Larian have made anything remotely in that category, tho i enjoy most of their games well enough.

 

I stan Mass Effect 2. I legit feel thats one of biowares god tier efforts, but not 1 and 3. and what sets it apart is the feeling of isolation and dissolution, not any particular design decision.

 

As for the nwn series, think only mask of the betrayer warrants that title. Think u could make an argument for the psychedelic lunacy of hordes of the underdark as well, if only because it commits so hard to being epic level its hard not to bask in its enthusiasm.

 

Also poe leans heavily towards 'anti-resolution' for want of a better word. If u want any kinda catharsis, u have to apply ur own reading or play something else.

 

As for the companions and romances etc. I love that stuff. Ive wasted a small fortune on visual novels and so forth. Ive written romance in my spare time. However its not what i play obs games for. I dont mind them having a crack at it, but ive ignored all of the romance options in deadfire so far.

 

I grow attached to my companions in rpgs cos they share the road with me. Anything they do or say is secondary to that.

 

In bg I was mega attached to imoen (ye ye i suck and im part of the problem. Stone me if ye want) simply bcs she was the only person from candlekeep - and ur childhood - who gave up their life to stand by you. She couldve eaten kittens and talked utter gibberish after that for all i cared. The character concept and backstory was all i needed from that game.

I felt ME2 was a step back from ME1 in the RPG dept, but understand Im not in the majority opinion. ME1 has some of my favorite gaming moments, including meeting Sovereign and Vigil, the freakin music (my God, orgasmic) and the "oh ****" decisions to choose between squad mates and whether to blow up the Krogan facility. Plus the Krogan were actually fearsome adversaries. Not even mention the great squad mates (they did get better as the series went on). But I can't deny the clumsiness of gameplay and inventory system. Regardless, for me ME1 was top tier Bioware. Coming in second to BG2 ofcourse .

 

Controversial opinion - The Citadel DLC for ME3 was Bioware's best DLC.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Verde

[house2fly 1,207]

I haven't played it but I watched all the cutscenes on youtube, and unless it's horrible to actually play I don't think I'd call that a controversy opinion

[Cartoons Plural 40]

far surpass expectation

but without a good poe3

deadfire will be another “what it could have been” regretful memory for rpg players

 

seems like most people enjoyed the game actually

 

why are some of you guys so incredibly invested in what other people think of it at the moment or that it didn't fulfill your expectations

Edited November 28, 2018 by Cartoons Plural

[Triple - A Foxy Lad 238]

ME1's not bad to play at all. It gets more fun the harder it gets and gives u gameplay incentive to mix and match ur team.

 

ME2 brutally streamlined the gameplay in favour of better set pieces and more self-contained stories.

 

That's not normally something I'd approve of - but ME2 knew what it wanted to be, did so without apology and made the most of its change of direction.

 

For me, there are three reasons that set ME2 apart. Well - one big reason and two smaller reasons.

 

1st simple reason - The rush of personal missions and side quests greatly expand the universe.

 

2nd reason - The game has a controlling emotion at its core: loneliness. Ur thrown out of ur old life and have to operate outside the system. U lose all ur old friends - with two surprising exceptions. The meat of the game has u putting together a team of people who are also misfits and trying to help them find a place. Ur not just rebuilding ur life, ur rebuilding ur village, so to speak.

 

Being thrown out into the cold world and striving to find ur place is an almost universal experience, and its a common theme in a lot of YA literature. As a more casual game, ME2's positioned well to capture that audience.

 

The final reason is that the gameplay's streamlined to pump all this directly into ur veins. ME2's aware of its core strength and plays to it.

 

The first game was perfectly fine. Ye, some aspects were a bit wonky and underdeveloped but not fatally so. The story was fun 'you are cassandra saving the universe stuff'. It did a good job establishing its IP. There wasnt much going on under the surface but that might have been for the best. It gave the writers a foundation to be more ambitious the second time around.

 

ME3 came with two fatal problems. The theme of loneliness and rebuilding was gone. Instead, u were saving the world from inside the system.

 

The other issue was that it started *contracting* the universe, undoing ME2's heavy lifting in that department. Scene-setting conflicts were resolved left, right and centre. The genophage, the homeless quarians, the geth. Planets were ripped asunder in the universe's equivalent of the faerun spellplague. The games chaotic and corporate hubs of omega and illium were either inacessible or fulfilled a different function.

 

I feel this raises a structural problem with trilogies. If the second part fulfils its expansive brief too well, the last act's resolution can seem like endless destruction.

 

Personally Id have rather seen ME3 leave its worldbuilding largely intact and plunge into cosmic horror territory. Leave the main stage and confront the reapers in the metaphorical (or literal) void with a greatly reduced cast.

 

But thats just me. I doubt many people would have wanted that. Dont think anyone ever made bank pandering to my formal preoccupations.

 

It's almost an afterthought, but ME3's gameplay is a notably improved version of ME2's. Still streamlined, but more kinetic and with more room for player expression.

 

But ye, thats my take on Mass Effect in general, if anyone remotely cares.

 

I wont go on about andromeda. That game took on too much responsibility combined with wonky presentation and curbed resources. Rip.

 

A shame, the best parts of it were quite absorbing and i liked it more than DA:I, at least.

[Cartoons Plural 40]

mass effect 3 vanguard was the most fun i ever had on a fps shame about that story, and so many other things besides

[Verde 516]

mass effect 3 vanguard was the most fun i ever had on a fps shame about that story, and so many other things besides

Oh man ME3 was great until the vanilla ending. The gameplay was best in the series imho.

[Hulk'O'Saurus 320]

I'd abandon that idea from the get go. Masterpiece sounds like too much. Just a completely new game from scratch. 

 

Deadfire is Deadfire - it's best you like it for what it is. 

 

It isn't bad. It will get better with time. It is, actually, getting better as we speak. 

 

But a masterpiece... oh, no. No, no. 

[Triple - A Foxy Lad 238]

Im gonna be that guy. I liked ME3's ending more than i did the rest of the game, it sharpened everything to a point, left u alone, went massively abstract and obliterated everything.

 

Honestly, i prefer that over all the pandering-victory-lap nonsense thats everywhere these days, and covered 90% of ME3 like a rash.

 

If anything it should have gone more nonsensical and evangelioned one off imo.

[Cartoons Plural 40]

i mean i love bad endings to be honest, like the only issue i have with pillars 2 ending is that they have a classic DM issue of being too damn vague about their secret narrative and it serves to really obfuscate what they were getting at, and the fact that there seem to be two wheels a metaphorical one with regards to the reincarnation cycle and a specific Engwithian Wheel of Ukaizo. anyway, what i'm trying to say is that i didn't really mind that you couldn't do anything about eothas it feels uh kind of a specific choice as an allegory to our world, anyway...

 

mass effect was a trashy space opera, i *liked* that about it. it was like a mashup of star wars and star trek for showtime, it was great. and then they got all self serious and tried to do an art and smacked their face onto the pavement because it was such a weird, presumptuous tonal shift that it left the whole game feeling weird and dreary

Edited November 29, 2018 by Cartoons Plural

[Triple - A Foxy Lad 238]

If the series had just been sci fi showtime throughout, id maybe have rolled with that explanation. But ME2 had serious bags under its eyes. It wasnt highbrow stuff, but it was conveying life in the wilderness as much as a mission to save the universe.

 

For me, it was the gung-ho turn of ME3 that felt like a bait-and-switch, while the ending felt like that old darkness reasserting itself. Shep alone, body broken, losing everything for a second time.

 

Mostly, ME3 felt like a list of cameos and resolutions of every single plot thread from the previous 2 games. I felt u could see straight through the game to the excel spreadsheet. it had all the emotional heft of an outlook schedule.

 

At least the end felt like it was made by a dangerously sleep-deprived human and not a machine calculating what it thought folk wanted. The exhaustion and disconnect were palpable.

 

I was honestly relieved to feel *something* from the game other than a desire to please and make a good product. It reminded me of the jarring end of Another World where Chahi's storyboard just folded under the weight of his project.

 

I didnt even bother getting the citadel dlc. I didnt want my memory of the old jagged alliance replaced by a lads night out.

 

But hey-ho. peeps wanted different things from the series. And there were more of them than me. Story of my life, lol.

 

EDIT: i missed out the word 'more'. Typing on phone hard.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Triple - A Foxy Lad

[Verde 516]

I think it's simple really. Obsidian took fan feedback too harshly. Yes the first one was too verbose, but it had heart and charm. And it was dark. Like really dark.

 

Obs essentially did a 180 with Deadfire, esp in the tone. They improved a number of things, esp the graphics and combat, but took a few steps back in others. The moral is...gamers are overactive babies, listen with a grain of salt

Edited November 29, 2018 by Verde

[Verde 516]

If the series had just been sci fi showtime throughout, id maybe have rolled with that explanation. But ME2 had serious bags under its eyes. It wasnt highbrow stuff, but it was conveying life in the wilderness as much as a mission to save the universe.

 

For me, it was the gung-ho turn of ME3 that felt like a bait-and-switch, while the ending felt like that old darkness reasserting itself. Shep alone, body broken, losing everything for a second time.

 

Mostly, ME3 felt like a list of cameos and resolutions of every single plot thread from the previous 2 games. I felt u could see straight through the game to the excel spreadsheet. it had all the emotional heft of an outlook schedule.

 

At least the end felt like it was made by a dangerously sleep-deprived human and not a machine calculating what it thought folk wanted. The exhaustion and disconnect were palpable.

 

I was honestly relieved to feel *something* from the game other than a desire to please and make a good product. It reminded me of the jarring end of Another World where Chahi's storyboard just folded under the weight of his project.

 

I didnt even bother getting the citadel dlc. I didnt want my memory of the old jagged alliance replaced by a lads night out.

 

But hey-ho. peeps wanted different things from the series. And there were more of them than me. Story of my life, lol.

 

EDIT: i missed out the word 'more'. Typing on phone hard.

But Shep being abandoned by his team doesnt work for most ppl...esp if you bring your romance option / close companions.

 

But factually, regardless of your opinion on the quality of the ending, they lied. Casey or whatever his name was explicitly said 'we will not have you choose colors or anything like that'...and we chose colors.

 

I thought the Extended Cut cleaned up what it could. The fact that initially you couldn't argue with "we heard you don't want to be killed by synthetics, so we created synthetics to kill you every 50k years so you don't get killed by synthetics" was the most egregious error of all. At least they added dialogue options. But that forever stings and I'll always consider it one of the most laughable memes ever.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Verde