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It attempts a hella lot tbf

 

theres that relationship system, the ship stuff, it dug up storm of zehirs map, it reworked the combat systems again, it included multi-classing, it introduced romance options to poe, it expanded options for the final battle - which might be a first for an infinity style game.

 

it massively expanded the faction system. hand on heart, i think its obs most complete and successful application of that. Ye im including new vegas.

 

Have all these things been done before? ye but thats not the point. Its less like bon jovi and more like a pop composer releasing an album where they have a crack at every variation of their genre.

 

Perhaps theyre not directly innovating but theyre pushing their own limits in a way which is usually characterised as an 'experimental phase'. At the v least its definitely 'the sprawl'.

 

Perhaps is worth comparing it to something like 'london calling' or 'revolver' rather than 'metal machine music'? Experimental but formal in its experiments. Attempting, not inventing.

 

McCartney in particular was one to find every possible variation of his chamber pop without necessarily stepping out of it.

 

All my rambling aside, ye i think its fair to say obs pushed things v hard with deadfire.

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I AM A RENISANCE MAN

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I fully agree that Deadfire is ambitious, and I applaud it for that. But when it comes to CRPGs, I don't think it's particularly experimental. I mean, apart from the coastal setting and the firearms, essentially every element that it contains has been used before, and the vast majority of them are commonplace these days.

 

Some things are even watered down in Deadfire, in comparison to the generally accepted rules of the genre. For example: in RPGs, undead are generally scary and do bad things to you. Not so in Deadfire. Undead are just like all other creatures: all the negative effects they can create are removed at the end of the battle. No level drain, no ability drain, nothing nasty like that.

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All that permanent ability drain etc got chucked out the ark a while back with a boatload of unfashionable d&d mischief.

 

Until kingmaker brought it back for reasons.

 

Wouldnt call it a general trait. At least it aint been for best part of 20 years.

 

Undead in most rpgs are trash mobs then at the end u fight a vampire or a necromancer or lich or something.

 

Also feel ur conflating 'experimenting' with 'innovating'. This may be crux of disagreement.

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Yeah, cannot be happier that bullsh!t like random permadrains to stats, abilities and stuff went down the drain. Saves me an extra-reload. Because this is what I always do and I'll eat my hat if I am alone in this. Because it's a computer game with save system and not a tabletop session. 

 

Same goes for similar idiocies like that imprisonment spell of BG2 and suchlike - "Well, crap. F9." 

 

Anyway. I wish Obsidian did a science fiction RPG. Proper science fiction, not space fantasy like "Star Wars". Alas, I remember reading somewhere that science fiction does not sell much. Like, Bioware went from light sci-fi "Mass Effect" to bombastic "Humanity f†ck yeah!" action schlock a la Mike Bay in "Mass Effect 2" and guess which one is more popular.  :getlost:  So I'll take whatever I can get, even power heroic fantasy. I'd be none too happy -- sucks to go back to cucumbers after grapes, but I trust Obsidian not to make FR-type bland oatmeal anyway. 

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Yeah, cannot be happier that bullsh!t like random permadrains to stats, abilities and stuff went down the drain. Saves me an extra-reload. Because this is what I always do and I'll eat my hat if I am alone in this. Because it's a computer game with save system and not a tabletop session.

 

You're certainly not alone. It's funny how differently people play these games, and of course nothing wrong with that. I mean, some people come on the forums asking for instructions on making the best possible build for dealing the maximum amount of damage, requesting information on the best weapon choices they can make in terms of the unique weapons available in the game. And I'm like: why do you even play the game if you want to know this stuff before you start?

 

But again, that's just another way of playing the game. I like the fact that it's possible for me to make bad or unfortunate choices and then try to recover, if possible. (In Deadfire, for instance, I spent 20K+ on a really nice-looking unique weapon and then found a better one for free almost immediately. Dang!)

 

I used to appreciate the fact that undead are scary and do you serious damage. I'm kind of sorry that in Deadfire, for instance, the undead status of certain monsters means essentially nothing.

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Yeah, cannot be happier that bullsh!t like random permadrains to stats, abilities and stuff went down the drain. Saves me an extra-reload. Because this is what I always do and I'll eat my hat if I am alone in this. Because it's a computer game with save system and not a tabletop session. 

 

Same goes for similar idiocies like that imprisonment spell of BG2 and suchlike - "Well, crap. F9." 

 

Anyway. I wish Obsidian did a science fiction RPG. Proper science fiction, not space fantasy like "Star Wars". Alas, I remember reading somewhere that science fiction does not sell much. Like, Bioware went from light sci-fi "Mass Effect" to bombastic "Humanity f†ck yeah!" action schlock a la Mike Bay in "Mass Effect 2" and guess which one is more popular.  :getlost:  So I'll take whatever I can get, even power heroic fantasy. I'd be none too happy -- sucks to go back to cucumbers after grapes, but I trust Obsidian not to make FR-type bland oatmeal anyway. 

 

You are not alone. On both things. :thumbsup:

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It would be great to see a good sci-fi game for a change, but it's not as if there are tons of great writers out there waiting to do this stuff...

 

Incidentally, the interesting thing with Pathfinder: Kingmaker is that it is all trope, there isn't even any attempt at ambitious writing. (This is not a criticism. The game is good at what it does, but it's all cliche.)

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Yeah I would love to see a good Hard Sci Fi RPG. I know it will never happen since me and about 4 other people are the only market for it. It is a pipe dream for me to eventually learn programming or whatever and make my own.

 

Just give me about 30 years guys and it'll be ready.

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nowt

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Yeah, it's probably an even more nichey market than isometric CRPGs.

 

Of course there's also the possibility of combining scifi and fantasy, let's say along the lines of Gene Wolfe's more-than-superb Book of the New Sun. But that mix would have just two potential buyers.

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Yeah I would love to see a good Hard Sci Fi RPG. I know it will never happen since me and about 4 other people are the only market for it. It is a pipe dream for me to eventually learn programming or whatever and make my own.

 

Just give me about 30 years guys and it'll be ready.

 

4 people? You, me, xzar_monty and bugarup. :p

 

Yeah, it's probably an even more nichey market than isometric CRPGs.

 

Of course there's also the possibility of combining scifi and fantasy, let's say along the lines of Gene Wolfe's more-than-superb Book of the New Sun. But that mix would have just two potential buyers.

 

Maybe Amplitude makes an isometric crpg with the Endless Legend story. One can dream. :shrugz:

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It would be great to see a good sci-fi game for a change, but it's not as if there are tons of great writers out there waiting to do this stuff...

 

Incidentally, the interesting thing with Pathfinder: Kingmaker is that it is all trope, there isn't even any attempt at ambitious writing. (This is not a criticism. The game is good at what it does, but it's all cliche.)

isn't it literally just an adaptation of a pre-written adventure module?
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