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Respec in CRPGs - Am I alone?


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#21
Manveru123

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Do you consider Deadfire to be balanced around respec feature? It's not. Respec is just an addition.

 

Where do people get the idea that the game will be balanced with respec in mind if it's available? That never happened. Why invent problems where there are none.



#22
Amentep

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Don't really care for a respec feature in games; rarely would I use it (I restart so often to finally "find" my initial PC that by the time I do get the one I like I'm usually pretty well versed in the system).

 

Since its unlikely to me that I'd use it, its existence in a game is irrelevant to my experience.


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#23
Tale

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I look at my pet peeve of the Infinity Engine games, the issue with traps options or obscurity.

 

It's a question of how well does the game teach the player what they need to win and how well does the game support the player's freedom to win in the way they'd like to? After all this time, I still am not clear on what spells counter what spell protections. And I have repeatedly ended up fighting bosses with characters who simply never found a weapon of their specialization with enough enchantment to do damage.

 

Respec is a crutch. But it's a crutch that kind-of-sort-of-maybe addresses these shortcomings. If the game is slow in teaching the player what they need to know, respec lets them fix mistakes. And if the game doesn't support a playstyle, it lets the player change it.

 

Thankfully, 3.5 and Pathfinder aren't as bad about spell protections as Baldur's Gate was. But Kingmaker still has an issue where it seems like it's trying to be a hardcore game for system masters who explore every corner of the game world while pretending to be a play however you like game where your Tower Shield Specialist has points wasted in Charisma. It has tons of options but did not leave me feeling like it really supported those options. It has quite a few traps, not the least because of features it hasn't implemented, like feat and spell swapping.



#24
LadyCrimson

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"My freedom is not your sin".

I don't see how would this affect a single player experience.
Just don't use it.

This would generally be how I feel about respecs in games, whether complete or partial. The important thing is that it is a choice and one can do or do not. I've always felt a game should/can give choices for different types of players and it's up to the player to do or do not. Developer's aren't responsible for player's personal willpower.

 

I myself am someone who rarely respecs in single-player games (I have respecc'd in MMO/online games), because if I like a game enough where I want to try many things, I generally prefer to start over from scratch. But I just ignore the respec button/npc if there is one. I do think/would prefer that dev's (in single-player games at least) be more imaginative with respec options than they typically are, with respec having a "cost" or somehow quest or loot based, for example. Nothing complicated/difficult, but make it feel like part of the game that you have to do at least a tiny bit of work for vs. just a magical button.

 

Complete and unlimited respec might affect the design, though. If the developers know that you can change your character's stats at any point, combat encounters and skill checks are likely to be (un)balanced accordingly. But it might be more about the skills of the devs, than the respec function itself.

That said, this is a valid point too and I have played some games where it sorta felt like this may have occurred. Kind of like how being able to unlimited save anytime, anywhere may have had impact on how a lot of games are designed now.



#25
Fenixp

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That said, this is a valid point too and I have played some games where it sorta felt like this may have occurred. Kind of like how being able to unlimited save anytime, anywhere may have had impact on how a lot of games are designed now.

At the end of the day, that's just a badly designed game tho, which should be criticized regardless of respec existing.
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#26
Gfted1

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inb4 "I cant control self!"

 

Oh crap wrong thread.


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#27
Gromnir

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respec is invariably an optional feature.  for those offended by the exploitative nature o' respec, the solution is simple and obvious: do not respec. axiomatic.

 

converse, as has become obvious from recent crpg releases, respec is a boon for many players who must endure developer error for weeks or months. whatever beliefs a few folks have 'bout the integrity o' single-player crpg gaming, it is beyond question the developers will make mistakes during development.  features often do not work the same on thursday as they did on monday.  particular in the case o' a game such as p:km, which uses antiquated over-dependence on pre-requisites for feats n' such, a player may build a character for dozens o' hours and then discover that the keystone ability they were building their character 'round does not actual work... at the moment.  

 

many people will respec to exploit.  so what? is sp games we reference, yes? so what if bob respecs at level 12 'cause then he can change is vanilla fighter to a rogue/vivisectionist/traditional monk/two-handed fighter to take advantage o' ________ weapon or _______ feat? doesn't bother Gromnir.  is only a problem in any event 'cause developers created an unbalanced game, so espoused notions o' gaming integrity is hardly convincing.  (am suspecting many folks arguing 'bout respec not realize they is actual providing another argument for greater game balance, but such is another argument for another thread.) other side o' the coin is dave who respecs not to exploit but 'cause o' the predictably endemic developer errors which lead to bugs which decrease the efficacy and/or fun o' a character after hours and hours and hours and hoursandhoursandhoursandhours of gameplay. should dave need suffer with a broken character simple to prevent bob's exploitive impulses?  why?   how does such weighing o' relative benefits and costs work to support exorcism o' respec? 

 

oh, and most folks who has played long running pnp campaigns will know respec happens all the time.  dm changes mind 'bout rule or the addition o' a prestige class or whatever.  it happens. is common for minor changes to a character to be made to accommodate dm alterations to rules... 'cause the dm who changes mind 'bout rules but then forces the player to maintain the integrity o' their character record sheet is not gonna keep many players. 

 

HA! Good Fun!



#28
injurai

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Why not just add hardcore mods that prevent re-spec. Make it a epeen wagging badge of honor, but leave the option open for others.


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