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I agree that this bit of 'criminal' behavior is being hyped up like  something ridiculously worse. So some parents spent money on bribes and that is worth the police threatening to commit mass murder? COME ON.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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The thing is they're not being charged for cheating on the admissions to the colleges.  Normally if an applicant or student is caught lying on their application, the admissions decision is rescinded or the application denied.  Cheat on a test, the test is invalidated (and the test company may bar you from testing).

 

The parents are being charged because Singer was allegedly laundering the money they were paying him to get into these schools through "donations" to Singer's non-profit which was in turn avoiding taxes on the money he was getting as a "non-profit".  This led to a number of conspiracy to launder money, conspiracy to commit racketeering, and conspiracy to defraud the US charges for Singer. 

 

The parents are being charged with "mail fraud" for - as I understand it - allegedly having wired or transferred money into the money laundering scheme disguised as donations to the non-profit, when instead it was payment to Singer and his cohorts for their work and the bribes being paid out to testing officials and coaches to guarantee the students got admitted.

 

Edit: I think the people who took bribes are charged with conspiracy to commit racketeering as well.

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Posted (edited)

ignoring for the moment that fraud is one o' those fundamental crimes which every western nation has criminalized since there were western nations, every school mentioned in the fbi investigation, as well as the testing boards, is gonna be facing lawsuits which will no doubt be seeking damages in the multi-millions o' dollar ranges.  each kid who paid an application fee at usc or paid sat to take their standardized test is gonna potential have opportunity to join in seeking compensation. a degree from yale or stanford, during a lifetime, is worth... dunno? millions? if yale didn't adequate police its stated admission policies to folks it charged money for admission submissions, they has made themselves vulnerable to huge damage claims.  am suspecting it will be mighty tough for usc to claim reasonable ignorance if you got multiple kids admitted on lowered athlete grade and test scales if those kids never even participated in the designated sports for which they were given streamlined admissions.  

 

even if some folks gots no moral compass, which is in itself a terrible revelation, then there is still the pure practical ramifications o' the college schemes which should give persons pause. mistaken thinks this is small-timey? 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps numerous schools is surprising difficult to fail.  

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/13-schools-where-its-really-hard-to-fail-2013-5#sarah-lawrence-college-yonkers-ny-11

 

additional, almost every school has a few classes which is autopass for even the laziest students. takes planning, but may meet a substantial portion o' ge requirements w/o doing much work.  also, if you cheated to get into school, is not hard to imagine cheating to graduate is it?  the big time private schools have extreme helpful tutor programs for students willing to indulge.  we went public, but lord knows how many guys Gromnir helped our first couple years at Cal. while we never wrote a paper for anybody, we did a good business coaching fellow students regarding their papers.  fine line? definite.  our efforts were known to athletic department and we got permission from school tutors as well. at what point were the papers written more by Gromnir than the folks we were tutoring?  regardless, were shocking to us how many freshman at Cal didn't know how to write. 

Edited by Gromnir

"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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So these kids didnt even have to pass the classes themselves?


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So these kids didnt even have to pass the classes themselves?

irrelevant.  doesn't in any way diminish culpability o' parents who committed fraud or schools and testing boards failed oversight.

 

even so, for a rich kid, is surprising easy to get just passing kinda grades at elite schools. paid tutors. sororities and frats with access to previous years tests and knowledge o' easiest profs. more scurrilous techniques include having folks write papers and take tests for students.  'bout 1/3 o' our lower division classes at cal had ~100 students.  might be different nowadays, but we always wondered how difficult it would be for some random person to show up and pretend to be bob smith ernie fields for midterms and finals.  chances are the professor never even met bob smith.  heck, test scores were posted based on student id# rather than name, so am suspecting nacy turnbuckle coulda' taken bob smith's tests and nobody woulda' been the wiser. 

 

is tough to get fantastic or even basic dean's honors at an elite school, but just passing?

 

regardless, is a separate issue and complete irrelevant.  is likely tens o' thousand o' kids who didn't get into stanford last year who, if they had been admitted, coulda' eventual graduated.  so what?

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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I view this as a fantastically more expensive version of getting in the back door of the club because you know (or paid) the bouncer, instead of waiting in line with the rest. Yes, it stinks for whoever was at the bottom of the list and got bumped. And the government is great at stacking charges, but it just doesn't make my ragemeter flicker. Especially if they actually graduated under their own merits, whatever the institutional flaws everyone has access to. :shrugz:


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I view this as a fantastically more expensive version of getting in the back door of the club because you know (or paid) the bouncer, instead of waiting in line with the rest. Yes, it stinks for whoever was at the bottom of the list and got bumped. And the government is great at stacking charges, but it just doesn't make my ragemeter flicker. Especially if they actually graduated under their own merits, whatever the institutional flaws everyone has access to. :shrugz:

so, you equate a degree opportunity from yale or stanford with backdoor access to a trendy club?

 

...

 

am baffled, but am thinking we see the core problem.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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I generally support the existence of luxury cars. Rich people already have more money than what they can spend, so buying over-priced luxuries is not only great for them. It's also nice for all the craftspeople to get a chance to work on something more masterful and scarce while still earning their living.

 

In this sense selling premiums of anything is usually a nice way to recycle the wealth of the wealthy and maintain some nice liquidity in the trade market. However when you are buying the luxury that keeps you ahead, I think the argument breaks down.

 

However, if you are paying more money into the University system that helps fund many other things. Then why not let them in. As long as the have to work through all the same accreditation as everyone else.

 

The real crime is how some students can basically take minimal classes in the liberal arts for a decade or longer essentially until the manage a Masters or PhD, while other students burrow into deep debt while working full time to barely be able to maintain a GPA (on account of available time) and are taking full loads to avoid excess debts to get into a technical career that pays a bit more but not enough to eat down their debts in a reasonable manner at all. That is the true crime.

 

I wish society afford more room for people to build solid foundations, rather than just floundering for years on end. Establish that as the baseline, then whatever excess that comes after can be the luxury version.

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The man getting man-er discussions do nothing for me. I guess cutting line, while distasteful, doesnt effect me on the same level as it does others. And Im cool with that.


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Posted (edited)

The man getting man-er discussions do nothing for me. I guess cutting line, while distasteful, doesnt effect me on the same level as it does others. And Im cool with that.

 

am thinking this is like the mit temperature change numbers-- am gonna have zero chance reaching gifted.  nevertheless, since gifted don't care 'bout fundamental fraud issues, we will instead focus on his reduction o' the scheme to what he seems to see as a harmless bribe, sorta like ferris playing funsies at the chez louis

 

 

the maître d' in the college entrance scheme took bribes totalling $25 million dollars for spots in elite universities which would no doubt be valued much more than $25 million. 

 

so make this instead a federal highway construction fraud case instead o' college entrance.  mastermind behind the highway construction fraud gets in trouble 'cause over a decade he took $25 million dollars from contractors to guarantee those contractors would win bids for projects no doubt worth hundreds o' millions. is no finding the bribe biders failed to complete basic minimum contract requirements.  (aside: this aspect is not actual equivalent 'cause numerous students in the scheme were not providing the university with the competitive athlete the university were expecting, but am trying to keep this as simple as possible for gifted.) so, no real crime for gifted?  nothing more wrong than chez louis scam? 

 

is doubtful the bidders who woulda' otherwise won the contracts if not for the bribe scheme would agree with gifted, eh? and yeah, just as we noted 'bove, those bidders for government contracts would no doubt be bringing legal actions 'gainst the government for failure o' oversight in their contract award process, so there is gonna be substantial additional costs for the government/taxpayers. 

 

is not small or petty or harmless precise if for no other reason than than we are talking 'bout values o' many $$$.

 

but again, the fraud thing don't bother gifted, so...

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps am avoiding double-post faux pas, so excuse non-sequitur nature o' the following:

 

A brigade of beagles helps the US save billions at America's busiest airports

 

gd may be conflicted 'bout the story. on the one had, the dogs is encroaching on his civil liberties.  what's next, teach 'em to sniff gunpowder to take away his guns and ammo? on the other hand, gd is a softie for canines, and as much as gd hates the fed, the border and customs folks is using rescue dogs to man, so-to-speak, the beagle brigade.

Edited by Gromnir

"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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I agree 100% that people will seize upon this opportunity to sue everyone and anything. We could have ruled the world! Its tragic.

 

This made me wonder where people have to slum it and go to their plan B school when they dont get into Yale. Princeton! Oh the humanity.


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For the weekend motivational...

 

77c7064124b4680d2248782cd9b08731.jpg

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"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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I agree 100% that people will seize upon this opportunity to sue everyone and anything. We could have ruled the world! Its tragic.

 

This made me wonder where people have to slum it and go to their plan B school when they dont get into Yale. Princeton! Oh the humanity.

princeton has been rating slight higher than stanford in recent years, but even so, the argument is gonna be the same stuff is happening at princeton. if linda sue were cheated out o' stanford by some rich schnook's kid, then who is to say it ain't happening at every other ivy.  the only reason the feds know 'bout the 8 schools in question is 'cause a guy in ny being charged with securities fraud, attempted to get a better plea deal by offering up info on one guy: rick singer. the feds investigated mr. singer, but is not as if they went ahead and checked if other schools were being targeted by similar schemes.

 

and while we know gifted hates even the simplest maths...

 

stanford charges a $90 application fee.  stanford rejects approx 38k student applications per year. show the scheme has been going on for 5 ish years at stanford. $90 is not a huge amount, but each and every one o' those rejected applicants is gonna have an argument that their application were not treated fair and that they should get their money returned. we ain't talking some kinda wacky lawsuit wherein folks is asking for $100 million 'cause the application made a student feel uncomfortable 'bout their lgbt status 'cause it asked the applicant to check box for male or female, with no other options.  kinda thing am talking 'bout is simple: stanford were running a rigged game w/o telling anybody the game were rigged, and were charging folks to play.  is not an anybody will sue over anything scenario 'cause this is exact what Courts has been protecting folks from since at least Roman republic times. 

 

$17 million dollars in compensatory damages for the class.  

 

there were seven other schools involved with varying acceptance rates and application fees. to keep simple, albeit arbitrary, let's cut the stanford compensatory damages in half and then multiply by total number o' schools so far. so, $68 million dollars in compensatory damages. UT and UCLA is public schools, so taxpayers end up paying that bill... which don't include attorney fees.  show one school administrator knew 'bout the scheme and decided to do nothing 'bout it and you may add punitive damages to the mix.

 

and none o' the 'bove maths includes the college boards.  both sat and act were involved as part o' the scheme. sat costs ~$65 with the essay. act is $62. is something in the range o' 3.2 million people taking those standardized tests every year. test numbers have value 'cause people believe they got value.  court decides the class deserves partial refund 'cause testing boards did not adequate insure the integrity o' the process?

 

 

almost nobody is gonna sue over $2, which is the public policy justification for class actions.  let big organizations get away with screwing ordinary folks 'cause it don't make any kinda economic sense to take folks to court over $2 or $65 or $90?  sure, the school or corporate entity is making millions 'cause o' their negligence, indifference or even willful bad acts, but those folks would never get sued 'cause is so little individual plaintiff money at stake. 

 

regardless, getting application money back if stanford were irresponsible is hardly excessive.  but heck, gifted and malcolm abbott is simpatico on this, so at least they is in good company, no?  maybe share a smoke and complain 'bout fed overreaction.  good times.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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You know whos the truly aggrieved in this situation? The school rowing team. Just imagine the looks of defeat that must have been etched across the rowers faces as they stared into the empty seats in the canoe, the oars flaccidly dragging in the bow wake, as they watch the other canoes disappear up the river. Perhaps we can turn this into a learning experience and discuss how this mirrors the downfall of the US, where less people have to carry the load for more. Were in the final days of Rome. I can see the hordes forming on the horizon.

 

Fin.


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You know whos the truly aggrieved in this situation? The school rowing team. Just imagine the looks of defeat that must have been etched across the rowers faces as they stared into the empty seats in the canoe, the oars flaccidly dragging in the bow wake, as they watch the other canoes disappear up the river. Perhaps we can turn this into a learning experience and discuss how this mirrors the downfall of the US, where less people have to carry the load for more. Were in the final days of Rome. I can see the hordes forming on the horizon.

 

Fin.

sure. sure.  'cause million dollar bribery schemes is nothing but an excuse for first worlder's "squeals." what an utter waste o' law enforcement efforts to uncover and stop fraud. corruption? only reason anybody cares is 'cause o' fake news doing fake news, right?

 

*insert eye-roll*

 

yeah, have learned from gifted the real problems is the press getting same free speech protections as ordinary citizens, american federal democracy successful preventing good old fashioned dictatorships from getting stuff done, and basic math. why won't somebody do something 'bout the real problems? 

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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For the random quote in the midst of general world news and blah...

 

54278386_2836524123239269_67781313371538

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"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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Unfortunately, nothing will ever get done about the real problems. The world is full of people whose number one goal in life is to be progress stoppers. Tis sad.

 

*black and white grainy film*

 

a discarded plastic grocery bag twists in the wind of a dust devil


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Posted (edited)

Unfortunately, nothing will ever get done about the real problems. The world is full of people whose number one goal in life is to be progress stoppers. Tis sad.

 

*black and white grainy film*

 

a discarded plastic grocery bag twists in the wind of a dust devil

 

yup. is no way we ever get the real problems addressed.  unsafe working conditions such as led to triangle shirt fire and those Pennsylvania mine accidents will never be addressed... but they were addressed. an inter-state highway system in a nation as large and as the US, with fifty separate states all disagreeing on how to implement, made such a monumental undertaking impossible... until it happened.  and dealing with communicable diseases such as measles and polio clear were never gonna be overcome in any person's lifetime, evar… right up until 90% vaccination rates were achieved. oh, and given how utter divided the nation were on the matter o' race, passing comprehensive civil rights legislation were nothing more than a waste o' time to pursue... but gosh, such legislation were passed by both houses o' Congress and signed into law by the President and upheld as legal by the Courts.

 

'course the real problems is press and ordinary citizens exercising those dirty free speech rights granted to 'em in the Constitution and the systemic fed level democracy limits on madmen and tyrants.  

 

if one genuine believes the real problems is indeed unfixable, then why not address those smaller and more accessible problems.  yeah, access to safe drinking water (1974) and protecting minority citizens right to vote (1965, 1970, 1975, 1982) is minor and trivial issues, but why not go ahead and fix such issues if is possible to do so?  veteran's choice program (2014) improved health care options for veterans.  who really cares 'bout veterans and their health, but senators McCain and Sanders negotiated anyways... for sh!ts and giggles we s'pose.  

 

more in-line with thread...
 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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:lol: See theres the problem. Around 15% of the time you are a remotely interesting self aggrandizer, but the other 95% of the time you become hysterical and fully prolapse your bottom. The former is at least palatable, the latter just make me lol. 

 

[slow heavy metal music]


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:lol: See theres the problem. Around 15% of the time you are a remotely interesting self aggrandizer, but the other 95% of the time you become hysterical and fully prolapse your bottom. The former is at least palatable, the latter just make me lol. 

 

[slow heavy metal music]

 

moderator's job is gonna be getting a little more difficult for gifted after today.  linky to this post is gonna give folks a whole lotta latitude when questioning why their posts got disappeared, eh? 

 

*chuckle*

 

doesn't bother us if gifted loses his water; is an affirmation o' sorts after all. is not even first time doing so and whenever it happens, am admitted experiencing the smallest degree o' mirth. bad on us. nevertheless, we do feel a bit remorseful for other moderators who may get painted with same brush... or in this case, mop.

 

clean up on aisle 5?

 

but to try and keep on-topic, your heavy metal music does not appear best for cheese culture.

 

scientists played music to cheese as it aged. hip-hop produced the funkiest flavor

 

is not good news for josh.  Wisconsin to become the hip-hop state?

 

perhaps try some funkadelic cheese.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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Resorting to; "nener nener whatever you say bounces off me and sticks on you". Now Im a little saddened by your lack of imagination. No more callbacks to previous unrelated topics? No more referencing this topic in other topics? I guess you shot your shot. :shrugz:


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Posted (edited)

Resorting to; "nener nener whatever you say bounces off me and sticks on you". Now Im a little saddened by your lack of imagination. No more callbacks to previous unrelated topics? No more referencing this topic in other topics? I guess you shot your shot. :shrugz:

 

you already gave up on discussing any issue relevant topic save for personal silliness, so any response from Gromnir is gonna necessarily add to devolution, but please keep posting... for posterity.  gfted's guide to board moderation, now with examples. what a hoot. let's see just how far you will go... am knowing a "fin" from gifted is meaningless, so am admitted curious to see just how far he will take what is obvious already doomed.

 

yet another attempt to keep thread relevant.

 

 
HA! Good Fun!
 
ps  as to gd millenial post, am not sure who to blame more: parents or schools. parents is necessarily doing less parenting than ever before.  more work and less time to parent.  two working parents is now common. is not school's job to parent kids, but reality is kids likely get as much parenting at school as they get at home.  many schools, for the last couple generations, has been in participation trophy mode. is never the kid's fault when they get bad grades; teachers need find a more appropriate modality to reach the student. bullies at school were victims o' bad parents or over harsh potty training, so give 'em hugs instead o' discipline. etc.  am being hyperbolic, but not completely. is not the job o' schools to parent, but reality is many (not all) parents don't parent the way they once did. 
Edited by Gromnir

"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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Let's play the ball and not each other. That means you too, Gfted.

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The sky had never seemed so sky, the world had never seemed so world.

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