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Yeah I agree. I found the writing quite terrible in deadfire. Playing beast of winter was like playing a completely different game written by different people.

 

I did not feel attached to the main plot at all. In fact I felt quite detached from it and surprised at how ridiculous the plot was the more the game unfolded.

 

The pillars world was just not interesting and the companion banter was terrible.

 

Fortunately the rest of the game more then made up for these short comings and the experience overall was excellent. If they do a poe3 I hope they get a new writing team.

Edited by bigbazoopa
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Hi folks,

I just finished my second playthrough of PoE1 and I'm loving the game. I am particularly fond of the barbarian class, its carnage ability and the various weapon debuffs (eg. disorienting) and effects (eg. stun upon crit) that synergize with these. I am now debating whether to purchase PoE2 or not, because I read from a review that similar items no longer exist, which puts a dampener on my plans. The same review explained that effects from weapons such as stuns are now based on a certain percentage instead of a flat attack vs. defence check, for example 20% chance to stun upon crit, which sounds very infrequent tbh. Is it true that similar CC barbarian builds from PoE1 based on item powers (the Leech was one of my all time favourites) are no longer viable in PoE2? Is there an item database where you can browse items based on their abilities like there was for PoE1?

 

I know it sounds one dimensional to base your builds on certain items, but that's how I've always liked to play my characters. I have limited time to play games and I wouldn't want to make a purchase that I'd regret later on for not playing.

 

Any help is appreciated :)

 

Aoe hard CC Barbarian is dead. Though Barb, particularly pure, does get some soft aoe options: Shout, eventually Frightening Spirit Tornado.

 

There are items with solid trigger chances. Ball and Chain can be enchanted to trigger Prone on crit, I think. Rust's Poignard has 30% but for a long-lasting Prone, with additional damage effects built in against downed enemies. The itemization is great in general.

Trouble is, those are single target. Carnage has been nerfed badly and no longer transports weapon effects (except Lord Darryn's Voulge Static Thunder, which in Barbarian's hand causes aoe Disorient on crit and explodes accumulated Static Thunder stacks).

 

But there are new options. Best of them are ranged, I'm afraid.

Blunderbuss mortar weapons, which target Reflex, deal slash/pierce damage in aoe... and deliver special attacks in aoe, such as Monk Stunning Blow, but also Rogue Blinding/Confounding/Gouging Strike, Crippling/Arterial Strike, Toxic Strike DoTs and such. Even better that you can dual wield them (so 2x affliction chance, 2x crit chance, 2x resource refund chance in case of Stunning Surge)!

Rod Blast modal does this as well (but is slow).

Plus the summoned weapons that were already present in PoE1: wizard Blights, Citzal's Spirit Lance, probably also Rotskulls, but I'm not sure. With multiclassing you can combine the ability to summon such weapons with CC abilities from another class.

There are also some melee aoe weapons: Whispers of the Endless Paths GS (attacks in a cone), Wahai Poraga pollaxe (attacks up to 4 targets around, friend or foe).

 

And for what its worth, I think the gameplay, pacing, exploration, itemization, combat is much better in PoE2. Character building is much more involved (although classes have lost a bit of their uniqueness). Also the main town hub is incomparably better.

 

 

Thank you! You answered one of my main concerns. Carnage is no longer a CC viable option, but rather just a damage dealing ability in PoE2. That's a mighty shame :(

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Also, you're not speaking objectively when you say it's the best isometric RPG you can play right now. I don't think that can be judged objectively. I for one find Pathfinder: Kingmaker more promising, but it does need quite a bit of patching before I start playing it properly. (And if you don't like P:K, that's fine, but it's still subjective.)

 

 

Kingmaker is done? That's a good piece of news. I need to find some kind of review. I thought about buying it, actually. I felt it suits me more than Pillars.

 

EDIT: Hope there is a GOG option. No way i will buy on Steam.

Edited by Abel
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Also, you're not speaking objectively when you say it's the best isometric RPG you can play right now. I don't think that can be judged objectively. I for one find Pathfinder: Kingmaker more promising, but it does need quite a bit of patching before I start playing it properly. (And if you don't like P:K, that's fine, but it's still subjective.)

 

 

Kingmaker is done? That's a good piece of news. I need to find some kind of review. I thought about buying it, actually. I felt it suits me more than Pillars.

 

EDIT: Hope there is a GOG option. No way i will buy on Steam.

 

 

You can get it on GOG just fine.

Edited by Night Stalker
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Also, you're not speaking objectively when you say it's the best isometric RPG you can play right now. I don't think that can be judged objectively. I for one find Pathfinder: Kingmaker more promising, but it does need quite a bit of patching before I start playing it properly. (And if you don't like P:K, that's fine, but it's still subjective.)

 

 

Kingmaker is done? That's a good piece of news. I need to find some kind of review. I thought about buying it, actually. I felt it suits me more than Pillars.

 

EDIT: Hope there is a GOG option. No way i will buy on Steam.

 

 

You can get it on GOG just fine.

 

 

Yeah :) Thanks for this :)

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I want to give P:K a shot, but it needs a year or so to cook. PoE2 too really. But overall I felt PoE1 had a great main story, but is not as fun play as PoE2.

Edited by Verde
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Even if you consider Deadfire's writing bad for Obsidian due to the open worldness and all that, its still better than any writing from Bioware or Bethesda. Though to be fair, that's not hard.

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"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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I don’t think you can go wrong with Deadfire, though I always recommend waiting till game is fully patched and improved, especially if you are not interested in replaying it multiple times.

 

First of all, game systems have changed a lot. While they didn’t abandon what made PoE (and IE enjoyable) it did a lot of changes to the system. Be prepared for different builds, and read tool tips, tutorials and ability descriptions. Interupts specifically work differently than in PoE makin your specific build non existent. I personally feel the changes are for a better, making combat cleaner and more... intentional? However, because combat encourages and revolves more around active abilitites, it can suffer even more than PoE1 when difficulty slides into brainless territory - which unfortunately happens in the latter half of the game due to many optional mid level content and not so much high level content (getting fixed by expansions, though).

 

Overall quality of the game has improved a lot - a lot of fat has been cut, and it is one of those rare RPG, which is both overwhelmingly sprawling and doesn’t waste your time. In spite of what other people said: the writing is overall great, but the loose structure of the title makes it difficult to latch onto any particular storyline or arch. While Deadfire and it’s factions are really well done, I wish Eothas story thread got a bit more “screen time”, though the entire game’s story is quite impressively intertwined with each other. There is a lot of good stuff in it, but the player needs to dig a bit for it, which is not ideal. By contrast DLC present much more straight forward, limited stories, with some really neat set pieces, and they just end up having more momentum.

 

Not a fan of returning companions. Seeing Eder, Aloth and Pallegina is nice, but while new companions seem to have place in Deadfire, the old bunch is just kinda there, especially poor Eder.

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Yeah I agree. I found the writing quite terrible in deadfire. Playing beast of winter was like playing a completely different game written by different people.

I did not feel attached to the main plot at all. In fact I felt quite detached from it and surprised at how ridiculous the plot was the more the game unfolded.

The pillars world was just not interesting and the companion banter was terrible.

Fortunately the rest of the game more then made up for these short comings and the experience overall was excellent. If they do a poe3 I hope they get a new writing team.

To be fair the problem is not the writing team, they did their best. The issue is open world, obs being far too ambitious with too many major changes, so not enough resources, the focus being on everything but the writing, something had to give. I think they did as best they could with the time available, but clearly Sawyer had many other priorities from the start and didn’t really place any importance on the narrative.

 

They are still good writers, and given support would show it. Deadfire isn’t a bad game per se, and many people would like it. I’m just disappointed because I was promised a sequel to POE whereas we got a direct sequel to SOZ. Again some people might like that, but plenty of gaming companies make good open world games. Very few if any can pull off the writing and atmosphere in the burning bridge (BOW) or Ondras temple in White March. So I have higher expectations for Obs and it’s disappointing to see an open world which frankly many companies can produce.

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"Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them."
"So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?"
"You choose the wrong adjective."
"You've already used up all the others.”

 

Lord of Light

 

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Storm of Zehir, Deadfire predecessor. Was an expansion pack for NWN 2. But it was fairly experimental, certainly for the time. A good and interesting game, but very much like Deadfire, not much story.

Open world I think is less about load areas and more about the idea that the game is fairly flexible and the players should have the freedom and time to do whatever they want. And, intentionally the main plot is pretty bare bones, so the players don’t feel railroaded into following it.

"Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them."
"So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?"
"You choose the wrong adjective."
"You've already used up all the others.”

 

Lord of Light

 

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To be fair the problem is not the writing team, they did their best. The issue is open world, obs being far too ambitious with too many major changes, so not enough resources, the focus being on everything but the writing, something had to give. I think they did as best they could with the time available, but clearly Sawyer had many other priorities from the start and didn’t really place any importance on the narrative.

 

 

 

I agree, well partly. What really gets old very fast is the lack of variety of scripted events on board. There's only so many times you can get the message of your crew being playing a game before it gets a nuisance rather than a fun event.

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Yeah I agree. I found the writing quite terrible in deadfire. Playing beast of winter was like playing a completely different game written by different people.

I did not feel attached to the main plot at all. In fact I felt quite detached from it and surprised at how ridiculous the plot was the more the game unfolded.

The pillars world was just not interesting and the companion banter was terrible.

Fortunately the rest of the game more then made up for these short comings and the experience overall was excellent. If they do a poe3 I hope they get a new writing team.

To be fair the problem is not the writing team, they did their best. The issue is open world, obs being far too ambitious with too many major changes, so not enough resources, the focus being on everything but the writing, something had to give. I think they did as best they could with the time available, but clearly Sawyer had many other priorities from the start and didn’t really place any importance on the narrative.

 

They are still good writers, and given support would show it. Deadfire isn’t a bad game per se, and many people would like it. I’m just disappointed because I was promised a sequel to POE whereas we got a direct sequel to SOZ. Again some people might like that, but plenty of gaming companies make good open world games. Very few if any can pull off the writing and atmosphere in the burning bridge (BOW) or Ondras temple in White March. So I have higher expectations for Obs and it’s disappointing to see an open world which frankly many companies can produce.

 

 

 

Honestly, i feel, since the start, that Obs took inspiration in all these brainless 3D so-called RPG there is out there.

 

-Emphasis on graphics and such rather than writting: check

-Open World feel: check

-Easy combat allowing even the most lazy players to steamroll everything: check

-Maxed out level half game in order to allow those who don't want to waste time doing side quests to steamroll the end game anyway: check

-Convenience features and accessibility for those who feel they should be able to grind everything without having to care much about managing resources (because, you lose time while steamrolling everything: >>>> example: auto heal): check

-Game mechanics centered around combat rather than Roleplaying (even though it's a RolePlaying Game): check

-Easy, fast and dumb main plot, in order for it to be easily understood/completed for even the dumbest idiot in the world: check

 

They tried to give the illusion they made the game for the core backers, while, at the same time, trying to reach worldwide mass market by using the same means as Bethesda and co. It was a complicated bet. But the danger here, is once they reach the point where they do not need backer's money to fund their next project anymore (hence reaching the independency they're striving for), they will feel the urge for the game to be successful, in order to stay independant. How do you think they will achieve that? To me it's pretty obvious. They won't take much risk anymore and try to sell their crap to as many people as possible. Which basically means: they will opt for EA's politics. That's how i see things, and what i said when PoE 1 first came out.

 

This makes me question the whole crowfunding system. I think that this alternate system can actually only work if the studio uses Kickstarter for each and every of his games. The development being already paid for. They won't have to appeal to mass market and can actually focus on delivering a proper game experience for the people who paid for it. Trying to satisfy everyone is the guarantee you will make a shallow work. Mozart composed his requiem after some noble ordered it for his defunct wife. If Mozart had to compose it in order to satisfy 7 billion uneducated people, i bet the Requiem would never have reached such heights. And Beethoven would have never composed the "hammerklavier".

 

Although, i don't know if i'm able to convey my thoughts properly in english.

Edited by Abel
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First there were the masterpiece: Gothic and Gothic 2 Die Nacht des Raben. On third part the series slipped.

My second unforgettable adventure was Dragon Age: Origins, but I was disappointed by a talentless second and third game.

Now I have similar feelings from the Pillars of Eternity. Why Deadfire so superficial? For 200+ hours of playing it, I was constantly haunted by the shadow of the perfect first game.
How was it possible to destroy all this?

The Deadfire is not terrible, no. It's just worse than the first Pillars of Eternity.

P.S: Try to buy, but do not think that you will experience euphoria.

Edited by Khagmas
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Open world I think is less about load areas and more about the idea that the game is fairly flexible and the players should have the freedom and time to do whatever they want.

 

If this is the definition of an open-world game (which I'm not arguing), the plot they have selected for Deadfire is the worst one possible for such a game. I'm not an expert in this field by any means, but basic logic tells that if you want the player to get the sense of freedom when exploring the world, you don't come up with a plot that by its nature entails a sense of urgency. I don't know, it's not my intention to sound harsh, but it almost looks like a rookie mistake.

Edited by kmbogd
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It really is surprising. The core gameplay is exploring, but every step of the main quest tells you exactly where to go next. You can blow off the main quest to sail, but the main quest gives you no reason to. I assume they wanted people to feel more involvement with the main quest so they made everything urgent and had a bunch of illustrated story scenes to make it exciting. That or it was written in a rush

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No, i guess it's probably more about hand holding for people who stubbornely refuse to use their brain, because they never tried to do so. Reaching level cap mid game serves the same purpose.

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Unfortunately I have to agree with the comments right above this. There is a profound contradiction in the heart of this game, and either the developers didn't realize it (which I think would be odd) or they just didn't care. The paradox is that you have a huge world to explore at your leisure, but at the same time you are made to feel as if you're in a hurry to catch Eothas. It just doesn't work. The whole premise is faulty.

 

Have any developers commented on the story side of the game? I mean their stated intentions, etc., or their responses to what players have said.

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Open world I think is less about load areas and more about the idea that the game is fairly flexible and the players should have the freedom and time to do whatever they want.

 

If this is the definition of an open-world game (which I'm not arguing), the plot they have selected for Deadfire is the worst one possible for such a game. I'm not an expert in this field by any means, but basic logic tells that if you want the player to get the sense of freedom when exploring the world, you don't come up with a plot that by its nature entails a sense of urgency. I don't know, it's not my intention to sound harsh, but it almost looks like a rookie mistake.

Nope it’s the perfect plot for an open world game, etc. There is no urgency at all. Eothas will wait for as long as you want, hell, he even gives you a perfect excuse - he tells you he needs to rest in Ashen Maw for as long as you need. That’s about as open world as the dragon of doom TM hovering over Kyneath for an eternity while your PC picks flowers and chops firewood. Edited by rheingold

"Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them."
"So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?"
"You choose the wrong adjective."
"You've already used up all the others.”

 

Lord of Light

 

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Unfortunately I have to agree with the comments right above this. There is a profound contradiction in the heart of this game, and either the developers didn't realize it (which I think would be odd) or they just didn't care. The paradox is that you have a huge world to explore at your leisure, but at the same time you are made to feel as if you're in a hurry to catch Eothas. It just doesn't work. The whole premise is faulty.

 

Have any developers commented on the story side of the game? I mean their stated intentions, etc., or their responses to what players have said.

Look at most open world games with a main plotline, you will see similar. Why would the Dovahkin blow off dealing with the dragons that are ravaging the countryside to go do mage college stuff? Why would the protagonist in Baldur's Gate 2 stop trying to rescue his friend or reclaim his soul to go do all the side quests you stumble across? It seems to be a problem with making the player engage with and be interested in the main plotline to not just ditch it while also giving free reign to choose as they like. Its a contradiction that many developers seem to struggle with, so it seems to be harder than it appears.

 

Anyway, I like Deadfire, I am enjoying it. No game will ever be perfect for anyone unless it is specifically tailored to that person, and then it will probably only appeal to them. It's made my list of great games, so nyeh to everyone. Nyeh!

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"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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Yeah, this contradiction is nothing new in video games with non-linear exploration. Witcher 3 does it with your character's quest to rescue his daughter which he's charged with doing by the Emperor, Fallout 4 does it with your character's quest to find his son, etc.

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