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It's part of the nonlinearity problem - if you nerf XP gain, then some people miss 40% of the XP out there without even realising, and then they're level 10 at the endgame.

 

With the god challenges they have the answer on a plate. Would be delighted with options to turn off increased XP gain with less party members, and/or some kind of curved XP cut where later game XP is cut far more (or just redo the levelling table, which is probably easier).

Challenges can't be played at lower levels so it's not the only answer unless that changes. Edited by Verde
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Challenges can't be played at lower levels so it's not the only answer unless that changes.

 

I'm not sure I follow. If you start a new game with the challenges, they only kick in later on?

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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The Challenges can't be used on the lower difficulty levels only PotD. And you can't mix Berath's Blessings. So a new Challenge isn't the only answer. It's easy to get max level about 70% into the game which is why there should be an option for all difficulties or a blanket nerf.

Edited by Verde
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I have no idea how you'd get to max level that early, though thinking about it you probably get a ton of xp from the main quest, and I did basically everything else in the game before even going to Hasongo

You explore, quest, and bounty. I wouldn't say 70% is early. Pt is, is it's pretty easy to get to max level with enough game left...mix in DLCs and you have a significant amount of content.

Edited by Verde
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The Challenges can't be used on the lower difficulty levels only PotD. And you can't mix Berath's Blessings. So a new Challenge isn't the only answer. It's easy to get max level about 70% into the game which is why there should be an option for all difficulties or a blanket nerf.

 

An option to use challenges with all difficulty settings (as well as mods and Blessings) would be my preferred option. I've been advocating for the same even without XP in mind.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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The Challenges can't be used on the lower difficulty levels only PotD. And you can't mix Berath's Blessings. So a new Challenge isn't the only answer. It's easy to get max level about 70% into the game which is why there should be an option for all difficulties or a blanket nerf.

An option to use challenges with all difficulty settings (as well as mods and Blessings) would be my preferred option. I've been advocating for the same even without XP in mind.

Same. Honestly don't care all that much about the XP, but being able to mix blessings and challenges would be awesome and really increase the experience.

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Just give us a slider for XP: 20%, 40%, etc... Then anyone can adjust their XP and even change it during the game if they decide to do more/less quests.
 
This way you could also play solo or with an incomplete party and progress in the same way you do with 5 people.
 

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Just give us a slider for XP: 20%, 40%, etc... Then anyone can adjust their XP and even change it during the game if they decide to do more/less quests.

 

This way you could also play solo or with an incomplete party and progress in the same way you do with 5 people.

 

 

The problem with this solution is in the early game, at least on PotD, is quite challenging with scarce means to overcome it. Especially if youre using a class or build that is weak in the early levels. Getting out of Port Maje is already something of a chore on PotD with no other added difficulty settings included, I cannot possibly imagine what it would be like if you're only able to get to level three or so before having to take on the tough fights.

 

I think if any XP nerfing is going to be included, it probably has to be tied somewhat to player level, with say, diminishing returns starting at level 10 perhaps. Because even after Port Maje, much of the early PotD content can still include some challenging fights. This also means that I don't think some kind of player-calibrated option should be included. Instead, any kind of XP nerf is going to require some special balancing by the developers, simply because of the current layout of much of the early game depends on your characters' level.

 

That is to say, this has to be a God's Challenge, and has to have a precise design. Otherwise it's going to be virtually unplayable for a variety of classes/builds. I have no problem restricting this kind of thing to PotD either, since those are overwhelmingly the players who are going to want this kind of inclusion, and thus Obsidian can design this challenge mode with precision.

Edited by cokane
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I'll also add that given the distribution of content and area levels, it makes more sense for any XP nerf mode to more or less keep levels 1-10 the same, and to instead spread out the leveling process of 11-20 (or perhaps even more precisely 14-20). This is doubly true given what we can assume about the future DLC.

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The problem with this solution is in the early game, at least on PotD, is quite challenging with scarce means to overcome it. Especially if youre using a class or build that is weak in the early levels. Getting out of Port Maje is already something of a chore on PotD with no other added difficulty settings included, I cannot possibly imagine what it would be like if you're only able to get to level three or so before having to take on the tough fights.

 

I think if any XP nerfing is going to be included, it probably has to be tied somewhat to player level, with say, diminishing returns starting at level 10 perhaps. Because even after Port Maje, much of the early PotD content can still include some challenging fights. This also means that I don't think some kind of player-calibrated option should be included. Instead, any kind of XP nerf is going to require some special balancing by the developers, simply because of the current layout of much of the early game depends on your characters' level.

 

You could leave the slider at 100% until you leave Port Maje (or go to 125% as Verde said). But this would require frequent adjustments by the player.

 

So your idea of diminishing returns is better. I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to implement, find a mathematical function that suits with the desired behavior and multiply it by the xp after level 10.

 

Or maybe use both: leave the slider for experienced players and create an option by its side to automatically adjust the slider each time you level up, according to pre-defined settings.

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It's trivial to raise the level cap, new abilities is what would cost. Two abilities per power level sounds pretty anemic, yet having two new power levels with a measly two abilities each per class would be 44 abilities altogether. Creating and implementing that would take time and resources away from making cool new weapons and enemies to fight.

 

^ the reason why level cap won't be raised.

 

And you would have to add new abilities because more levels will unlock PL 8 abilities for multiclass characters, so there would be very little tradeoff for going multi.

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Doing only main quests and beating the game with level 20 shouldn't be a thing.

 

 

Reaching lvl 20 should require completion of Main Quests, all installed DLCs and about 60% of all optional quests. Anything less than that makes the player max out too soon.

 

 

However, i think the best way to fix experience in Deadfire would be decreasing amount of XP for Exploration, Bounties and mundane quests. There's simply too much "free experience" after you leave Port Maje. You can explore everything for 2-3 extra levels, do like 15 bounties for another 2-3 levels and boom, you're level 11 before you even talk to the Queen for the first time.

 

Btw. why would you increase Port Maje experience gains? I think they're already a tad bit high and that you should finish PM 1 level sooner (so at level 4 instead of 5), it's not like there's much challenge on PM.

I think it should be like this:

  1. Level is gained at the start of the game
  2. Level for saving crew and reaching PM
  3. Level for completing PM quests
  4. Level for Engwithian Digsite
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Btw. why would you increase Port Maje experience gains? I think they're already a tad bit high and that you should finish PM 1 level sooner (so at level 4 instead of 5), it's not like there's much challenge on PM.

:woot:

 

Ever heard of Gorecci St.?

I didn;t find it too bad. I thought that the fight before meeting Aloth was much more tricky - I had to use some cheap tricks to get past this one.

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Btw. why would you increase Port Maje experience gains? I think they're already a tad bit high and that you should finish PM 1 level sooner (so at level 4 instead of 5), it's not like there's much challenge on PM.

:woot:

 

Ever heard of Gorecci St.?

I didn;t find it too bad. I thought that the fight before meeting Aloth was much more tricky - I had to use some cheap tricks to get past this one.

 

So did I. But I was playing on Veteran. :blush:

 

 

 

I had to keep my characters almost behind the tent and hold the enemies with Eder. It was close.

 

 

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Btw. why would you increase Port Maje experience gains? I think they're already a tad bit high and that you should finish PM 1 level sooner (so at level 4 instead of 5), it's not like there's much challenge on PM.

:woot:

 

Ever heard of Gorecci St.?

I didn;t find it too bad. I thought that the fight before meeting Aloth was much more tricky - I had to use some cheap tricks to get past this one.

 

Gorecci Street and pre-Aloth Digsite encounters are challenging on PotD only if you limit yourself - meaning you run just with Edér and Xoti and you refuse to buy weapons/use consumables.

 

You can easily get 5 party members as soon as you reach PM, you can buy super-powerful Essence Interrupter or that unique Club, both will drastically decrease difficulty.

 

If you decide to limit yourself, follow this guide to beat PotD Triple Crown PM with any class and without exploits:

 

Large Shield, Xoti's Sickle, deflection ring and cloak, unique helmet, downgrade bracers and Arrack for Edér. Stock him up with healing potions. Don't forget to give him Spirit Shield potion for the Drake encounter (It's carried by Xoti by default)

Give Xoti some firearm, i prefer pistol + lantern. Get rid of her armor (it only slows her down), give her gloves that have per encounter lay on hands. If possible give her Apothecary Sash and stock her up with scrolls.

MC's class doesn't really matter, everything can work, just be sure to get some Cinder Bombs for that sweet sweet AOE blind. As i said, unique weapons REALLY help, and some classes might have it easier, especially Wizard/Druid/Cipher.

 

Be sure to fight pre-aloth encounters during day, as panthers there have +15 deflection at night making them much more difficult to kill. Large Boars have Gore skill that deals tons of damage and applies raw damage DoT on  your tank if it connects, but it's simple to cancel it by moving ~1m away from them if they try to use it. Keep distance between characters when fighting Drake otherwise he'll cast AOE bomb.

If you're struggling with Drake fight, be sure to pick up +1 PER cat and clear out skeletons for guaranteed Fine Hunting Bow which really helps. Try to use bottlenecks as much as possible, and if there aren't any try to break LoS (especially important on Gorecci street where the Mage and Ranged can kill you really quickly)

Edited by Somnium_Meum
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Gorecci Street and pre-Aloth Digsite encounters are challenging on PotD only if you limit yourself - meaning you run just with Edér and Xoti and you refuse to buy weapons/use consumables.

 

You can easily get 5 party members as soon as you reach PM, you can buy super-powerful Essence Interrupter or that unique Club, both will drastically decrease difficulty.

 

Nice guide. I will have that +5000 gold Blessing on my next pt, on PotD, so I'll not limit myself. But it's good to know this.

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