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Neat Party Trick: Eternal Ascension mode

Cipher Priest Party

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94 replies to this topic

#81
AndreaColombo

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It was the “fun” kind of broken, that’s why :p
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#82
InsaneCommander

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I'll probably mod this back too. I plan to do my second pt with mods and BBs in PotD. Then the third one will be "pure" PotD or at least without any "help".



#83
AndreaColombo

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Just download mine from the Nexus; no need to duplicate work :)

#84
Archaven

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I think obsidian should spend more time solving bugs instead of nerfing players.

Brilliant had broken design. It's still broken now, just less so. It also probably took them all of like 5 minutes to talk about and fix.

In other words, whynotboth.gif?
I can't visualize how this nerf done by obsidian solve anything. The only possible way would be making SOT per encounter instead of per resource.

Or per cast per character. AM probably good for 2 HOF cast but now it's not so possible I think.

Edited by Archaven, 01 November 2018 - 12:15 AM.


#85
AndreaColombo

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Please stop giving Obsidian bad ideas; we all want the status quo maintained here :p
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#86
InsaneCommander

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Just download mine from the Nexus; no need to duplicate work :)

 

I will. I don't even know how to mod. :p



#87
Archaven

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Please stop giving Obsidian bad ideas; we all want the status quo maintained here :p

 

I think i feel like screwing obsidian and go ahead with your mod. Does it break achievement?



#88
AndreaColombo

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Mods don’t break achievements; only using the console does. But you won’t be able to use it if you play the god challenges.
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#89
Archaven

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Mods don’t break achievements; only using the console does. But you won’t be able to use it if you play the god challenges.

 

There's this Faster Deadfire. Looks neat. Possibly going to try in my next PT. Is it compatible with current and future patches? And lastly, good job on the mod!

 

Now are you able to make Lord Darryn's Voulge to have Legendary upgrade? :p


Edited by Archaven, 01 November 2018 - 09:16 AM.

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#90
AndreaColombo

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Faster Deadfire is compatible with the current version of the game. Should any future patches render it obsolete, I’ll update it accordingly.

I haven’t looked into Soulbound weapons, tbh. Currently I’m working on a mod that reverts a chunk of the 1.1 nerfs.

Edited by AndreaColombo, 01 November 2018 - 09:32 AM.

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#91
Franknstein

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In terms of game systems design or evaluating some metagame/strategy, "healing" in the conventional tool-tip sense is not a useful enough definition, because ultimately what matters is "how long you stay alive." In that sense, BDD and healing accomplish the same goals, but they do so differently by changing which variable they keep fixed to accomplish it (in the mathematical model).

 

 

Not arguing with the math, which is sound as an abstract, I do think that by dismissing the environment you present an error about BDD.

 

1. The counter to healing – damage, is much more common than the counter to BDD – Arcane Dampener. So, in all of the game healing has less weight than BDD in achieving the goal "of staying alive". BDD is more effective (and arguably requires less resources – stats, equipment, e.t.c – from the player).

2. The counter to BDD happens to counter all buffs without specific discrimination.

3. The environment provides ways to exploit BDD – Salvation of Time and Brilliant.

 

One can't make BDD less effective by just giving out Arcane Dampener to every schmuck in every encounter, bosses to be a challenge have to have some form of Arcane Dampener built into them, fun and good buffs get screwed by association, and BDD in it's current form is a pain in the hindquarters from a designers perspective.

 

Point is – you can say, that everything is nice and dandy with being immortal for some time as a general concept, but you can't say the same about the implementation of this concept in Deadfire.


Edited by Franknstein, 02 November 2018 - 01:58 AM.


#92
Boeroer

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It's funny: in PoE Barring Death's Door was supersituational. It prevented you from dying because of low health, not from knockouts due to low endurance. As such, you would use it once, maybe twice in a playthrough. But that was ok because you got the spell without any drawback - came automatically with all the other spells at level up.

Now with endurance/health gone it has to be redesigned to be of any use. If the designers would have wanted to keep its nicheness then they would have redesigned BDD in a way that it prevents death from too many injuries. THat would have been the 1:1 translation from PoE to Deadfire.

But at the same time priests have to hand pick their spells now. So you want to make sure you don't pick a spell that you might only use twice in a playthrough. That made the 1:1 translation less attractive and they ended up with the current solution - which is a pain in the stern to balance.

Edited by Boeroer, 02 November 2018 - 12:12 AM.

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#93
Archaven

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BDD ain't that great with many enemy casters. Arcane dampener is really PITA. Is there a way to counter it? Enemy mages hide behind tanks and DPSers. And that's not just 1 mage or warlocks we are talking about. There are few of them.

If the idea is that player must take the hit, only way is hostile reduction? You can't be possibly having everyone in a team to focus on that

#94
Kaylon

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BDD ain't that great with many enemy casters. Arcane dampener is really PITA. Is there a way to counter it? Enemy mages hide behind tanks and DPSers. And that's not just 1 mage or warlocks we are talking about. There are few of them.

If the idea is that player must take the hit, only way is hostile reduction? You can't be possibly having everyone in a team to focus on that

For a single character I think it's possible to increase your Will high enough to completely ignore Arcane Dampener. However the attacks reducing the duration of your buffs (like Concussive Tranquilizer) might be harder to avoid.



#95
thelee

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In terms of game systems design or evaluating some metagame/strategy, "healing" in the conventional tool-tip sense is not a useful enough definition, because ultimately what matters is "how long you stay alive." In that sense, BDD and healing accomplish the same goals, but they do so differently by changing which variable they keep fixed to accomplish it (in the mathematical model).

 

 

Not arguing with the math, which is sound as an abstract, I do think that by dismissing the environment you present an error about BDD.

 

1. The counter to healing – damage, is much more common than the counter to BDD – Arcane Dampener. So, in all of the game healing has less weight than BDD in achieving the goal "of staying alive". BDD is more effective (and arguably requires less resources – stats, equipment, e.t.c – from the player).

2. The counter to BDD happens to counter all buffs without specific discrimination.

3. The environment provides ways to exploit BDD – Salvation of Time and Brilliant.

 

One can't make BDD less effective by just giving out Arcane Dampener to every schmuck in every encounter, bosses to be a challenge have to have some form of Arcane Dampener built into them, fun and good buffs get screwed by association, and BDD in it's current form is a pain in the hindquarters from a designers perspective.

 

Point is – you can say, that everything is nice and dandy with being immortal for some time as a general concept, but you can't say the same about the implementation of this concept in Deadfire.

 

 

I'm not discounting the environment. The math is just to say that BDD is effectively another form of healing. The environment is what makes that "alternate form of healing" from a curiosity into something potentially powerful. If ways to dispel buffs were just as prevalent as damage, no one would be talking about BDD; in fact buffs would be completely useless and we'd just be basically playing a glorified version of dungeon siege 1.

 

 

BDD ain't that great with many enemy casters. Arcane dampener is really PITA. Is there a way to counter it? Enemy mages hide behind tanks and DPSers. And that's not just 1 mage or warlocks we are talking about. There are few of them.

If the idea is that player must take the hit, only way is hostile reduction? You can't be possibly having everyone in a team to focus on that

For a single character I think it's possible to increase your Will high enough to completely ignore Arcane Dampener. However the attacks reducing the duration of your buffs (like Concussive Tranquilizer) might be harder to avoid.

 

 

If you multiclass with rogue you can gain various effects that make you "untargetable", which means even if you're inside the AoE of an effect you're not affected. (And anyway once you become untargetable they'll change targets). I think only other class with untargetability is ranger, but it's at AL9.

 

The fact that BDD has a weakness at all (arcane dampener and such) is a necessary thing to keep such an effect in check imo. This really goes for all sorts of powerful buffs.







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