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Purudaya

So...No New Companions

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At around 45:30 in the most recent Twitch stream, the devs essentially confirmed that there aren't going to be any new companions added to PoE2. It also doesn't sound like any sidekicks will be upgraded to full companions given their reasoning:

 

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/309622653

 

This is disappointing. Given that PoE1 started with 8 companions and ended with 11, I think it was reasonable for players to expect at least somewhat similar content additions when making their decisions to buy PoE2 (I know I did). I would understand if the companions in Deadfire had significantly more depth than they did in PoE1, but that hasn't been the case unless you count the (imo) relatively meaningless relationship system which seems itself to be a big factor in precluding new companion content. 

 

From what I've seen so far, I would take a major content pack for new and existing companions over the entire Seeker/Slayer/Survivor DLC any day. I really wish Obsidian would get that rich/expansive party content is part of what draws many CRPG fans to the genre and that this aspect of their (otherwise excellent) games really needs some focus/improvement. 

Edited by Purudaya
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Frankly it's good news. All the reputation/relationship stuff did is make companion dialogue buggier and give me incompatible ending slides where two characters become lifelong friends but also one of them vanishes and becomes a Satan worshipper. Let's have sidekicks with a half-decent amount of dialogue who won't propose to me after one conversation because some numbers got screwed up under the hood

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Frankly it's good news. All the reputation/relationship stuff did is make companion dialogue buggier and give me incompatible ending slides where two characters become lifelong friends but also one of them vanishes and becomes a Satan worshipper. Let's have sidekicks with a half-decent amount of dialogue who won't propose to me after one conversation because some numbers got screwed up under the hood

 

I would partially agree with you if we actually had sidekicks with a half-decent amount of dialogue, but we don't. It's really too bad that the reputation/relationship system was so cumbersome/buggy/poorly implemented - it would be fine if the end result had been fewer companions with an increase in content/depth, but that's not what we got.

Edited by Purudaya
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I think going deep instead of wide is a really good thing. Going wide is how you get Baldurs Gate I companions. And nobody wants that. The problem here is, that I don't feel like the companions is that much deeper in PoE II than PoE. I really like them, but they don't feel so deep, it compensates for the reduced number. I would like a few new ones to be honest, but I guess it can't be helped. Writing companions is hella expensive, so I understand why Obsidian isn't going overboard with it.

Edited by TheisEjsing
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It's a real shame, but given the relationship system not unexpected. In the likely case PoE3 happens I think they should scrap the relationship system and have expansions bring new companions.

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I actually wouldn't mind if sidekicks were to be reworked into BG2 or even PoE 1 style companions - with linear story arc and character development, a number of banters and interjections and maaaaaybe a *very* short quest. Just feeling their presence throughout the main story and ability to talk to them would be a big deal.

Yet, it's a pipe dream - I would imagine that full voice acting is too expensive.

Best we can count on I guess is sidekicks being given some content in DLC areas - similar to Ydwin in BoW. From what I've gathered, it's far from ideal solution (I still haven't played any of the DLCs) but it's a band-aid.

Edited by aksrasjel
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I'm disappointed there is no post game expansion! Isn't that what most people voted for on that feedback questionnaire?!

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nowt

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I think it would be better to simply increase sidekick interactivity. The companion system fell over it's own ambition and ended up a mess.

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Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!

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I love how people treat this as news even though they've been saying this all along.

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

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I'm disappointed there is no post game expansion! Isn't that what most people voted for on that feedback questionnaire?!

A feedback is just feedback. Nothing more. They don't have to do anything.

 

Developing companions is too much work, so they're going to - at best - make more sidekicks relevant in DLC.

 

Time is money, friend.

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I'm disappointed there is no post game expansion! Isn't that what most people voted for on that feedback questionnaire?!

A feedback is just feedback. Nothing more. They don't have to do anything.

 

Developing companions is too much work, so they're going to - at best - make more sidekicks relevant in DLC.

 

Time is money, friend.

 

Oh well, who cares.


nowt

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I'm not surprised by that. And I'm actually fine with it. If they were doing two big expansions I might expect one or two additions, but with how quickly they're cranking out this DLC there's no way I'd expect it in those. The time they'd have to implement them is insane.

 

I just want more dialogue hub conversations or more in depth conversations with the companions we have. *Maybe* sidekicks too if that's at all doable. I think the companions are all awesome characters and I love how much work they did to make them more dynamic and responsive, but I really miss being able to have more branching, developed conversations.

 

E.g. Talking to Serafen more about factions or pirating or slavery could be really interesting. Talking to Xoti about faith or her differences with other Eothasians or her culture or the nature of Gods or Eothas (toward end of game) would be great too. That was the

the most interesting part of the character to me and has a lot of potential.

 

And I've said this before but, as much as I love the voice acting, all the added stuff could be entirely silent and I wouldn't care. The whole game could

be silent and I wouldn't mind if it meant the writers could do what they want.

Edited by Tick
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Also, I suspect the depth they added was largely in their responsiveness. Playing Pillars of Eternity again, I was struck by: 1) How quiet the companions are in conversations and 2) the fact that people rarely if ever respond to your companions when said companions react. *And* you could never respond directly to what the companions said.

 

Those are all giant improvements in Deadfire and it's so natural and ingrained that I didn't properly appreciate it until I played the first game again.

Edited by Tick
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Frankly it's good news. All the reputation/relationship stuff did is make companion dialogue buggier and give me incompatible ending slides where two characters become lifelong friends but also one of them vanishes and becomes a Satan worshipper. Let's have sidekicks with a half-decent amount of dialogue who won't propose to me after one conversation because some numbers got screwed up under the hood

I would partially agree with you if we actually had sidekicks with a half-decent amount of dialogue, but we don't.

well yeah, that's why I specified it. If whatever sidekick/s they introduce in the next DLCs have some dialogue and maybe banter with other party members, that's far more valuable to me than being a "companion". In general BOW gave every companion and sidekick at least some stuff to say, fingers crossed that'll continue

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I love how people treat this as news even though they've been saying this all along.

 

Don't you remember that time when Josh said, officially, that Obsidian were going to put all of their resources into upgrading Ydwin to a full companion with more content than any other companion and with a romance mini-game rivalling most dating simulators?

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Considering that WM1&2 didn't pay for itself and that DLC were always meant to be smaller and how companions are done (more on that later)  I never expected to see new companions be added. I think what they did with Ydwin in BoW was very smart.

I am liking Deadfire companion system more and more. But the downside is that you need a companion to be implimented throughout the whole game, as their developement happens by interactions with the world rather than in a self contained bubble. Addition of a companion to Deadfire would mean going back to the base game and adding a reactivity throughout the whole game. Sounds like a lot of work and a sure way to break something. WIth relationship system adding companions is very difficult and it is certainly a black mark against the system. Personally, I am torn whenever it was worth it. I am against it after my first playthrough, but right now, after my second playthrough I rather like it. I will have to go back to PoE1 in some time and see if I will respond to massive 15 minutes long conversation dumps with companions as "oh, I missed those" or if I wish I was playing Deadfire.

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it is better if dlc doesn't add any new teammate

but the existence of sidekick changed it

seeing some of them become companion are players most often and strong request

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I'd prefer better quests in the future DLC to more companions. 

 

The game also has other issues that I'd welcome being looked into before that, as well. 

 

Just two cents. 

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I don't like the relationship system that seems to define companion vs. sidekick, so that sounds fine to me. What I'd love to see are relationship tracks for the sidekicks that aren't integrated into a mechanic that strikes me as nothing but trouble.

 

It's weird: influence systems are most often seen in CRPGs, but I think they're a lot more useful on the tabletop, where they can provide guidance. In computer games, where all they do is unlock certain dialogue options, it strikes me as more logical to just have a map of said options with whatever variables are relevant.

Edited by gkathellar
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If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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The relationship system was Obsidian shooting themselves in the foot. Its not really all that interesting, and its complexity is preventing them from making more/better companions. Sidekincks were really a waste of time.

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The relationship system was Obsidian shooting themselves in the foot. Its not really all that interesting, and its complexity is preventing them from making more/better companions. Sidekincks were really a waste of time.

Before we get ahead of ourselves, the relationship system is not the only thing preventing Obsidian from cranking out companions.

 

In order to make a substantial companion you will also need to do a whole lot of writing, design and implement a quest and so on.

 

In fact I have to ask the people wanting new companions (I personally feel there's enough) where you draw the line between sidekick and companion?

 

A) Is a sidekick that has lots of dialogue, interjections, but no personal quest not integration with the relationship system nor thematically integrated.

 

B) Same as A, but also thematically integrated.

 

C) Same as B, but also integrated into the relationship system.

 

D) Same as C, but also with a personal quest.

 

Which one of these do you feel crosses the line from "sidekick" into a "functionel" companion?

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The relationship system was Obsidian shooting themselves in the foot. Its not really all that interesting, and its complexity is preventing them from making more/better companions. Sidekincks were really a waste of time.

I tend to agree. The relationship system doesn't add much (for me at least) and the introduction of the companion/sidekick divide has just made some players disgruntled. They should have simply called all non-mercenary joinable NPCs "companions" and simply varied the amount of content each one had behind the scenes (as was done in BG2 and PoE).

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