So...No New Companions

[baldurs_gate_2]

Did not even took in the first game any companions, always crafted my own ppl, cuz they are just plain better statswise.

[esyvjrt]

I wouldn't say the system itself was the problem, but how they used it, like the variables they chose, yes they add something to the companions, but it doesn't worth in my opinion

Edited September 14, 2018 by esyvjrt

[Purudaya]

The relationship system was Obsidian shooting themselves in the foot. Its not really all that interesting, and its complexity is preventing them from making more/better companions. Sidekicks were really a waste of time.

Exactly. I'm not going to play with a party member that has virtually nothing to say outside of a few lines in a specific DLC, no matter how much "love" they get on the single island said DLC offers.

 

I don't care if they don't add new companions into the relationship system if they instead gave sidekicks new content throughout the game, but it sounds like they're just going with the "Konstanten will get two new lines of non-interactive dialogue if you take him on this one specific quest and nowhere else" approach.

 

---

 

As for being 'surprised' about there not being any other companions...yeah, I am. Most party-based CRPGs gain at least one companion somewhere in the DLC process, and while it may have been sensible to expect *fewer* companions added in the DLC season than in PoE1, did everybody really expect that there would be zero when they made their purchase?

 

As it stands, we went from 11 companions to 7 with no significant jump in quality, imo (maybe excepting Maneha). For people who really enjoy companion development as part of the narrative, that's a downgrade.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Purudaya

[uuuhhii]

The relationship system was Obsidian shooting themselves in the foot. Its not really all that interesting, and its complexity is preventing them from making more/better companions. Sidekincks were really a waste of time.

opinion shows between 0 to 100 and stop avoiding give simple good and evil preference to companion will make the relationship system much better

Edited September 14, 2018 by uuuhhii

[Achilles]

The relationship system was Obsidian shooting themselves in the foot. Its not really all that interesting, and its complexity is preventing them from making more/better companions. Sidekincks were really a waste of time.

I think "shooting themselves in the foot" is a little strong.

 

First, Pillars 1 had too many companions. Understandably, they "had" to cover all the classes, so 11 companions makes sense from a certain perspective, but that justification doesn't hold up in Deadfire due to multiclassing.

 

Second, "interesting" is completely subjective. Yes, the Pillars 1 crew had some witty banters, but I do think there's more depth to it in Deadfire. Maybe that's not your thing and that's ok, but I don't think it was a mistake or a failure.

 

Third, as someone who has ditched Xoti for a hireling, I can 100% confirm that sidekicks have value. They may not be as vocal as companions, but they aren't mute. They don't come out of the box 1 level behind, never to catch up. They don't share assets with ship crew members.

 

Where I do agree with you is that the deeper companinon relationship system isn't finished baking yet. It needs more work. And they defintely need to go back to their "no romance unless it can be done well" policy.

[house2fly]

The level cap is only 20, hirelings will 100% catch up unless you hire them right before the endgame. And since right now you can't fight the final boss, there's no need for them to be max level at endgame.

[Achilles]

The level cap is only 20, hirelings will 100% catch up unless you hire them right before the endgame. And since right now you can't fight the final boss, there's no need for them to be max level at endgame.

That’s great for the end game, but it’s still a bit of a drag for the rest of it.

[InsaneCommander]

E.g. Talking to Serafen more about factions or pirating or slavery could be really interesting. Talking to Xoti about faith or her differences with other Eothasians or her culture or the nature of Gods or Eothas (toward end of game) would be great too. That was the the most interesting part of the character to me and has a lot of potential.

 

That would be cool. They could also add a scripted interaction for when you tell her what you discovered at the ending of the first game and she decides to kill you at night.

[house2fly]

Honestly, the companion quests should have just been them finding out the truth about the gods and how they deal with it. Surely Xoti's religious mission would be affected when she finds out she's doing it for a fraud? Tekehu is already struggling with the idea of being Ngati's chosen, what will he do when he finds out Ngati is a damn animat?

 

Then you get the odd line that suggests they already know... like Ydwin wonders if the White Void predates Rymrgand in Beast Of Winter. Does everyone know? Did Eder and Pallegina tell them offscreen?

[acbatchelor]

 

...

 

First, Pillars 1 had too many companions. 

 

...

 

 

How is that possible?!!  

[misterjimmy]

I don't like the relationship system that seems to define companion vs. sidekick, so that sounds fine to me. What I'd love to see are relationship tracks for the sidekicks that aren't integrated into a mechanic that strikes me as nothing but trouble.

 

It's weird: influence systems are most often seen in CRPGs, but I think they're a lot more useful on the tabletop, where they can provide guidance. In computer games, where all they do is unlock certain dialogue options, it strikes me as more logical to just have a map of said options with whatever variables are relevant.

It's feel like companion system just another gimmick.  And also because they make all-npc voice acting. so they can't expand more companions dialogue and their side-quest for since it cost too much

[aksrasjel]

What's funny is that - after thinking it through - I personally don't have that much of a problem with this relationship system per se. Sure, the execution of it leaves a lot to be desired and I agree it's gimmicky and overdesigned. But it's more of a symptom than a cause.

 

Real talk - what really boils my brain with regards to companions, sidekicks and all this jazz is that in their infinite wisdom narrative lead(s) in Obsidian decided that NPCs like Maia/Pallegina are much more interesting character concepts to explore than Ydwin/Rekke/Vatnir or even Fessina. And that kind of raises my eyebrow. I apologize all the Maia fans out there, but for me she's probably one of the blandest characters in the roster with the most paper-thin backstory I've seen in a videogame since Casavir. Pallegina fares only slighty better - it really doesn't help that her "deep, philosphical discussion" about faith with Xoti is an equivalent of two teenage girls throwing poo at each other. Not particularily deep or profound. And wouldn't that be much cooler to actually see them discussing their ideological differences like mature people? 

 

On the other hand we have Ydwin, that seems to have a novel worth of interesting backstory - and from what I've seen so far in BoW - some really clever character philosophy that will probably never get explored in-depth (no, really, her "reasonable" approach to faith is actually pretty neat) and Rekke who's entire existence and cuture turns the Eoran status quo on it's head. Yet both of those characters get completely ignored in favor of IMO much less interesting ones.

I get that certain companions serve a function, and that's why the get "story priviliges" - AKA faction representatives, but function doesn't make them automatically deep and memorable. Honest question - was Pallegina really this popular/interesting/memorable to be brought back outside of her Vailian representative status?

 

What I'm trying to say is - I guess people would bitch much less about relationship system, companions, sidekicks and sidekick expansions into companions if the companion roster was actually engaging (more conceptually than writing-wise) instead of just functional. And less people would have been disappointed with the "news" about not having new companions. But I guess it wasn't the focus of the narrative. And unfortunately I blame the narrative leads for that - beacuse there is only so much a writer can do if the character concept is boring from the get-go.

 

---

To be absolutely fair, I don't think that all companions are irredeemably boring. I legitimately like Serafen, although I wish there was more to him and Tekehu is a decent idea that could've been a really good character if he was given more focus on his struggles as Ondra's chosen and what that means to him - y'know, character development. Xoti is a mess, but could have been decent if the writers made up their minds where are they going with her. And toned down the obnoxiousness. Oh my Gaun.

Edited September 15, 2018 by aksrasjel

[dunehunter]

There is a wiki page related to a possible companion Ryona who is a spirit paladin, anyone know if this will be a new sidekick in DLC2?

[uuuhhii]

What's funny is that - after thinking it through - I personally don't have that much of a problem with this relationship system per se. Sure, the execution of it leaves a lot to be desired and I agree it's gimmicky and overdesigned. But it's more of a symptom than a cause.

 

Real talk - what really boils my brain with regards to companions, sidekicks and all this jazz is that in their infinite wisdom narrative lead(s) in Obsidian decided that NPCs like Maia/Pallegina are much more interesting character concepts to explore than Ydwin/Rekke/Vatnir or even Fessina. And that kind of raises my eyebrow. I apologize all the Maia fans out there, but for me she's probably one of the blandest characters in the roster with the most paper-thin backstory I've seen in a videogame since Casavir. Pallegina fares only slighty better - it really doesn't help that her "deep, philosphical discussion" about faith with Xoti is an equivalent of two teenage girls throwing poo at each other. Not particularily deep or profound. And wouldn't that be much cooler to actually see them discussing their ideological differences like mature people? 

 

On the other hand we have Ydwin, that seems to have a novel worth of interesting backstory - and from what I've seen so far in BoW - some really clever character philosophy that will probably never get explored in-depth (no, really, her "reasonable" approach to faith is actually pretty neat) and Rekke who's entire existence and cuture turns the Eoran status quo on it's head. Yet both of those characters get completely ignored in favor of IMO much less interesting ones.

I get that certain companions serve a function, and that's why the get "story priviliges" - AKA faction representatives, but function doesn't make them automatically deep and memorable. Honest question - was Pallegina really this popular/interesting/memorable to be brought back outside of her Vailian representative status?

 

What I'm trying to say is - I guess people would bitch much less about relationship system, companions, sidekicks and sidekick expansions into companions if the companion roster was actually engaging (more conceptually than writing-wise) instead of just functional. And less people would have been disappointed with the "news" about not having new companions. But I guess it wasn't the focus of the narrative. And unfortunately I blame the narrative leads for that - beacuse there is only so much a writer can do if the character concept is boring from the get-go.

 

---

To be absolutely fair, I don't think that all companions are irredeemably boring. I legitimately like Serafen, although I wish there was more to him and Tekehu is a decent idea that could've been a really good character if he was given more focus on his struggles as Ondra's chosen and what that means to him - y'know, character development. Xoti is a mess, but could have been decent if the writers made up their minds where are they going with her. And toned down the obnoxiousness. Oh my Gaun.

maia and pellagina are necessary for represent rdc and vtc

maia feels bland because writer have to go with all the soldier stereotype

so a lot“yes captain”

best part of pellagina in poe1 are struggle between order and her own strong sense of duty and will

but in deadfire pellagina turn to blind support of vtc are indeed the most disappointing part about companion

[Achilles]

maia and pellagina are necessary for represent rdc and vtc

Quite right. Eder, Aloth, and Xoti cover the “core four” (Fighter, Healer, Mage, Rogue) with one slot open for the faction of the player’s choice (Serafen, Maia, Pallegina, or Tekehu). Lastly, the sidekicks are rough approximations of the companions, in case you want to ditch someone who annoys your or need to replace someone who leaves the party.

[house2fly]

The sidekicks seem more interesting specifically because they aren't explored. Fassina is an apprentice wizard who doesn't like it and is in a bad mood. Rekke is an arsonist who got deported and is good with languages. Ydwin is a Dracula gag. There is nothing sthat makes these character concepts intrinsically more interesting than, say, a godlike who loathes the gods for making her the way she is and exploited a loophole in her country's laws to join an all-male paladin order, or an ethnic Huana who works for Rauatai as an assassin, or a fanatical priest on a mission to collect souls

[the_dog_days]

I love how people treat this as news even though they've been saying this all along.

 

Yeah, they were very upfront about not adding companions in the expansions.

[ThacoBell]

 

The relationship system was Obsidian shooting themselves in the foot. Its not really all that interesting, and its complexity is preventing them from making more/better companions. Sidekincks were really a waste of time.

I think "shooting themselves in the foot" is a little strong.

 

First, Pillars 1 had too many companions. Understandably, they "had" to cover all the classes, so 11 companions makes sense from a certain perspective, but that justification doesn't hold up in Deadfire due to multiclassing.

 

Second, "interesting" is completely subjective. Yes, the Pillars 1 crew had some witty banters, but I do think there's more depth to it in Deadfire. Maybe that's not your thing and that's ok, but I don't think it was a mistake or a failure.

 

Third, as someone who has ditched Xoti for a hireling, I can 100% confirm that sidekicks have value. They may not be as vocal as companions, but they aren't mute. They don't come out of the box 1 level behind, never to catch up. They don't share assets with ship crew members.

 

Where I do agree with you is that the deeper companinon relationship system isn't finished baking yet. It needs more work. And they defintely need to go back to their "no romance unless it can be done well" policy.

 

Exceot that the companions AREN'T deeper or more interesting than in PoE1. All the relationship thing has done is make me read, "Aloth raises an eyebrow." About 5,000 times. This adds NOTHING to his character.

[Purudaya]

 

I love how people treat this as news even though they've been saying this all along.

 

Yeah, they were very upfront about not adding companions in the expansions.

 

 

Where? Everybody keeps saying how obvious it was, but I don't remember hearing this and feel like I've followed the game's development reasonably well. 

 

When Josh Sawyer said that the team was "very aware" of the Ydwin fanbase (I'm not really a Ydwin fan, but to each their own) when asked about future companion content, I think it was reasonable to assume that they were looking at giving at least that sidekick an upgrade. 

 

We now know he was just talking about tacking on a handful of non-interactive lines in BoW, but it definitely didn't sound like meatier content was off the table at the time.

 

 

 

 

 

The relationship system was Obsidian shooting themselves in the foot. Its not really all that interesting, and its complexity is preventing them from making more/better companions. Sidekincks were really a waste of time.

I think "shooting themselves in the foot" is a little strong.

 

First, Pillars 1 had too many companions. Understandably, they "had" to cover all the classes, so 11 companions makes sense from a certain perspective, but that justification doesn't hold up in Deadfire due to multiclassing.

 

Second, "interesting" is completely subjective. Yes, the Pillars 1 crew had some witty banters, but I do think there's more depth to it in Deadfire. Maybe that's not your thing and that's ok, but I don't think it was a mistake or a failure.

 

Third, as someone who has ditched Xoti for a hireling, I can 100% confirm that sidekicks have value. They may not be as vocal as companions, but they aren't mute. They don't come out of the box 1 level behind, never to catch up. They don't share assets with ship crew members.

 

Where I do agree with you is that the deeper companinon relationship system isn't finished baking yet. It needs more work. And they defintely need to go back to their "no romance unless it can be done well" policy.

 

Exceot that the companions AREN'T deeper or more interesting than in PoE1. All the relationship thing has done is make me read, "Aloth raises an eyebrow." About 5,000 times. This adds NOTHING to his character.

 

 

 

You could even argue that PoE2 companions have less depth. In PoE1, I was able to sift through Grieving Mother's memories and decide whether she should be forgiven for her actions, was able to help Aloth choose between suppressing or reconciling the split in his soul/personality, talk at length with Durance and Eder and either reinforce or sow doubt in their respective faiths, decide whether to help or deter the Devil of Caroc on her path of revenge, and on and on.

 

In PoE2, the majority of the companions are static. The game strongly hints that you'll be able to persuade an increasingly conflicted and doubtful Maia away from the RDC only to have her turn out to be a blind follower no matter everything else that's happened. Eder, Pallegina, and Serafen don't grow, they just have problems that you help solve (and briefly, at that). Heck, even taking Eder and Xoti to the Burning Bridge - while an excellent level in an excellent DLC - doesn't deliver the narrative payoff you might expect from a character development standpoint.

 

I wish Obsidian would draw half as much from Mask of the Betrayer as they do from Fallout: NV in informing their approach to narrative design. Deadfire is still a great game, but it's a bummer that I play it more for the worldbuilding and combat than for the characters. That's why I was holding out hope for more - maybe the remaining DLCs will yet add some much needed depth, but I think "a few extra lines" is probably the more likely approach.

 

Edited September 15, 2018 by Purudaya

[InsaneCommander]

Did not even took in the first game any companions, always crafted my own ppl, cuz they are just plain better statswise.

 

Yes, but they don't come naked and drunk.

[Moriendor]

I don't really mind no new companions. I'm the kind of player who likes to stick with a tight-knit group of adventurer buddies for my party. It is already kind of "annoying" in part 1 and 2 of PoE that -as a completionist- you "have to" swap out companions for their story arcs (not knowing in advance how long you have to drag them along).

 

So, I'm good... when I'm going to finally get around to playing the game next year after the final DLC has been released, my main party will be Eder, Aloth, Pallegina, Xoti, moi.

I don't even want to swap out anyone for new companions "all the time".

[the_dog_days]

 

 

I love how people treat this as news even though they've been saying this all along.

 

Yeah, they were very upfront about not adding companions in the expansions.

 

 

Where? Everybody keeps saying how obvious it was, but I don't remember hearing this and feel like I've followed the game's development reasonably well. 

 

The Fig campaign, Josh's twitter/Something Awful, in video interviews, and I'm pretty sure here on the forums. It got reiterated constantly during the crowd funding and dev time.

[InsaneCommander]

Honestly, the companion quests should have just been them finding out the truth about the gods and how they deal with it. Surely Xoti's religious mission would be affected when she finds out she's doing it for a fraud? Tekehu is already struggling with the idea of being Ngati's chosen, what will he do when he finds out Ngati is a damn animat?

 

Then you get the odd line that suggests they already know... like Ydwin wonders if the White Void predates Rymrgand in Beast Of Winter. Does everyone know? Did Eder and Pallegina tell them offscreen?

 

If they did I'm gonna kill them. Seriously, that would be one of the best moments in the game. My clever watcher would even ask Eder and Pallegina to wait a moment, until I could get a chair and something to eat while I watched them discover the truth about their "gods".

[DozingDragon]

 

 

 

I love how people treat this as news even though they've been saying this all along.

 

Yeah, they were very upfront about not adding companions in the expansions.

 

 

Where? Everybody keeps saying how obvious it was, but I don't remember hearing this and feel like I've followed the game's development reasonably well. 

 

The Fig campaign, Josh's twitter/Something Awful, in video interviews, and I'm pretty sure here on the forums. It got reiterated constantly during the crowd funding and dev time.

 

 

If I recall correctly, at some point Josh explained that it takes at least two or three months of writing time to make one companion because of the way they implemented the relationship system in Deadfire.  I also thought he explained at some point he was relieved that the Ydwin stretch goal was not met due to the amount of time it would have taken to implement Ydwin as a full companion.  However, I can't find these posts for the life of me, maybe they were on Something Awful?  Regardless,the prospect of another full companion never looked very promising.  

[Achilles]

 

 

The relationship system was Obsidian shooting themselves in the foot. Its not really all that interesting, and its complexity is preventing them from making more/better companions. Sidekincks were really a waste of time.

I think "shooting themselves in the foot" is a little strong.

 

First, Pillars 1 had too many companions. Understandably, they "had" to cover all the classes, so 11 companions makes sense from a certain perspective, but that justification doesn't hold up in Deadfire due to multiclassing.

 

Second, "interesting" is completely subjective. Yes, the Pillars 1 crew had some witty banters, but I do think there's more depth to it in Deadfire. Maybe that's not your thing and that's ok, but I don't think it was a mistake or a failure.

 

Third, as someone who has ditched Xoti for a hireling, I can 100% confirm that sidekicks have value. They may not be as vocal as companions, but they aren't mute. They don't come out of the box 1 level behind, never to catch up. They don't share assets with ship crew members.

 

Where I do agree with you is that the deeper companinon relationship system isn't finished baking yet. It needs more work. And they defintely need to go back to their "no romance unless it can be done well" policy.

Exceot that the companions AREN'T deeper or more interesting than in PoE1. All the relationship thing has done is make me read, "Aloth raises an eyebrow." About 5,000 times. This adds NOTHING to his character.

Apples and oranges. There are the companions, and then there are their interactions (which is more than just the admittedly poorly implemented bits of prose thrown in during dialogs)