melee DPS that can beat Mage DPS

[Boeroer]

I don't know why you insist on base damage. It's not like they trigger Carnage or something. If we ignore Superb quality, we are still left with 11-15, same as warhammers, which seem to be pretty popular among some. If used on a Streetfighter with modal, they guaranteed always get additional +80-160% sneak attack damage plus Powder Burns, which can add up to another 100 damage per hand (distributed between the enemies). Plus when used against low Reflex enemies, they Crit all the time.

Not to mention DoT distribution.

Can't speak for the others, but I don't insist on anything. I'm just correcting false statements. Superb + Driving Flight is not damage*4. Mortars are super good with the right setup and you can use them very early if you want. That's all correct and a reason why they are so popular. But it's still better to argue with correct data. Sugar-coating numbers is most likely spoiling your (otherwise sound) line of reasoning. No offense meant. Edited September 4, 2018 by Boeroer

[Haplok]

Sorry if I sounded offensive. I didn't address my message at you specifically, I guess I was just getting frustrated at 4 different posters commenting about low base damage (where 8-10 was far from the truth) and low damage. While in fact I think the damage is pretty good when you consider the aoe capability and lots of crits vs enemies with low Reflex. Further, if you compare it with the like of WotEP, which has the same base damage - but with a full attack you attack twice with the mortars for each swing of the WotEP, plus you trigger Driving Flight and Powder Burns.

 

Do you know what is the damage reduction on Driving Flight, btw? I remember being rather dissapointed with Chain Shot Fire in the Hole upgrade, which lowers weapon damage by 15% and then the bounce is at another -50%. Of course more shots are still good to proc some effects, like aoe procs of Combusting Wounds (with 7 procs per near target in aoe per salvo - 2x Powder Burns, 2x attacks, 3x bounce).

Edited September 4, 2018 by Haplok

[Boeroer]

Good question. It used to be 60% (or minus 40% in other words) but I have no idea if that is still the case. Double inversion of dmg malus results in a pretty nasty dmg drop. For afflictions and on-hit/crit effects it's very nice of course.

[1TTFFSSE]

I have not run a hard practical test yet, but in theory cipher ascendant should hold up to wizard or evoker quite well, as long as you never actually auto-attack with the cipher (ascendant) - because that is what results in a dps loss  or at least a pause on the cipher. That usually involves making sure you run with three items: Kitchen Stove, Thundercrack Pistol and Amira's Wind Rod. Basically you rest once before every encounter you will have an attack from each one of those three items that give you instant ascension: Thunderous Report from Kitchen Stove, Storm rune Shot from Thundercrack, and Wilting Wind Attack from Amira's Wing. That should allow you to give 100% ascension uptime pretty much in every encounter and play your cipher (ascendant) like a wizard nuker.  

[mant2si]

I have not run a hard practical test yet, but in theory cipher ascendant should hold up to wizard or evoker quite well, as long as you never actually auto-attack with the cipher (ascendant) - because that is what results in a dps loss  or at least a pause on the cipher. That usually involves making sure you run with three items: Kitchen Stove, Thundercrack Pistol and Amira's Wind Rod. Basically you rest once before every encounter you will have an attack from each one of those three items that give you instant ascension: Thunderous Report from Kitchen Stove, Storm rune Shot from Thundercrack, and Wilting Wind Attack from Amira's Wing. That should allow you to give 100% ascension uptime pretty much in every encounter and play your cipher (ascendant) like a wizard nuker.  

Don't forget about Ranger's/Barbarians with their WW/HoF

[Elric Galad]

 

...

Don't forget about Ranger's/Barbarians with their WW/HoF

 

 

Just how strong is Melee Ranger Whirlwind ?

 

It adds like 54 raw damages (maybe 63 if it ticks on 0s too) scaling with both INT and MIG over a quite short delay.

 

I've found this build that seems to rely on it :

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/8y9dij/war_dancer_single_ranger_leveling_progression/ 

 

It seems to that WW is even superior to Heart of Fury, even if DoT does not seem to stack with itself (so probably not double raw damage with DW).

 

 

Against single target, Melee ranger can also switch to "I stack accuracy buff" mode and spam its wounding shots with increased accuracy.

I suppose pet adds a bit of damages too.

[mant2si]

With next DW nerf I think it is not very good, but in current game version 2.0 you can use Stalker's Patience with Scordeo's Edge, each enemy around will increase your accuracy by 2 and each crit give you chance to immediately recovery and cast another WW (6 WW in ROW is good argument)

Edited September 4, 2018 by mant2si

[Boeroer]

I also think it's better than HoF. At least it "feels" more powerful. 

[mant2si]

The most interested combination is Sun and Moon + Hand Mortar (Avenging Storm, Blunderbuss modal), the good thing about this combination is Ranger Accuracy bonuses ;D 

With this combination you get +35 accuracy for Avenging Storm and  Blunderbuss modal and  Hand Mortar which cause stupid amount of crits + each sun & moon attack produce 2 hit at once + you have 5% chance to repeat  Blunderbuss modal hit xD

The difference for HoF is 2 additional casts, while most of you damage will be done via Avenging Storm it make you do much more damage

Edited September 4, 2018 by mant2si

[Boeroer]

You mean Avenging Storm I presume?

[AndreaColombo]

Buttercut and Wuthering Strike now finally have a third companion! :D

Edited September 4, 2018 by AndreaColombo

[Boeroer]

What about Direballs? You can't exclude Direballs!

[lorddarkflare]

Sorry if I sounded offensive. I didn't address my message at you specifically, I guess I was just getting frustrated at 4 different posters commenting about low base damage (where 8-10 was far from the truth) and low damage. While in fact I think the damage is pretty good when you consider the aoe capability and lots of crits vs enemies with low Reflex. Further, if you compare it with the like of WotEP, which has the same base damage - but with a full attack you attack twice with the mortars for each swing of the WotEP, plus you trigger Driving Flight and Powder Burns.

 

Do you know what is the damage reduction on Driving Flight, btw? I remember being rather dissapointed with Chain Shot Fire in the Hole upgrade, which lowers weapon damage by 15% and then the bounce is at another -50%. Of course more shots are still good to proc some effects, like aoe procs of Combusting Wounds (with 7 procs per near target in aoe per salvo - 2x Powder Burns, 2x attacks, 3x bounce).

 

 

For what its worth, I am fully on the dual Blunderbuss Train. Been running them on a Streetfighter/Bleakwalker and she is a force to be reckoned with.

 

Still not in Wizard's league though. I am not sure any manipulation of stats and equipment allows for that.

[mant2si]

I just leave this video here, you can directly start from 1:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOkG2VViB_k&t=60

Edited September 4, 2018 by mant2si

[100011]

Thank you all for the replies and, perhaps I should edit my first post and specify the following:

I have been playing as pure wizard and noticed the crazy among of DPS I was able to do while being almost untouchable with some protections. 

 

I would like and wanted to change my play style to a melee DPS that could do more (or equal) to a wizard and wanted to challenge the community with that.

 

 

@mocker22, this seems very tempting, the fighter/monk and curious to know more about this build - have you wrote something about that build or where can I read more about this ? Survivability should be good if its build with Dex ?

 

 

Well there are tons of very high dps melee builds out there. As previously stated Rogue and Monk add tons of dps, and barbarian really can as well. One thing to consider is how much survivability you want as well. I've been working on a Fighter/Monk build using Wahai Poraga. The single target dps will be ok, but I'm thinking that with Wahai hitting 3 mobs at once, high crit chance coupled with Swift Flurry and Heartbeat drumming and Cleave......the chain reaction should be absurd, and Unbending allows you to tank mobs in the face.

 

Ultimately there are tons of options. If there is a particular class you are keen to play for whatever reason, we'll be able to suggest some nasty builds. You also may consider mentioning things like if you mind a build that takes a while to get going.

 

 

 

@mant2si, this is a nice video for ranger melee but can you handle the last bosses properly ? how much DPS are you able to do ?

 

@Boeroer good comments and nice page where you summarize builds.

 

thanks

[Mocker22]

I haven't wrote anything up, it was more just a concept in my head, but the idea would be that Wahai Poraga hits three enemies at a time, greatly increasing your chance of proccing Swift Flurry or Heartbeat drumming for a second attack. Cleave will contribute to the extra attacks as well. I based my idea for his gearing heavily on the Undying Titan build, meaning I incorporated items to handle all the affliction resistances that Determination does not. Stat wise, pump might, dex, and perc, lowish con, dump res, and decent intel to help durations. I think there might be a build in the build list thread based on this combo, but it was from early after game release iirc.

 

This was more just something I was working on on paper, I haven't played it all the way through. I'm sure someone could confirm if the idea would work. I'll write up a full build if people want......

 

Just remembered to add that I would guess at some pretty decent CC potential with Mule Kick, Stunning Surge, and Clear out if you want to take them all. I think I had decided to get Penetrating Strike instead of clear out for those high armor enemies.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Mocker22

[Boeroer]

For what it's worth I checked the dmg malus of Driving Flight. It's -50% or in other words: it works like a graze in terms of dmg. The effect is called "bounce" so it maybe that all jumping effects suffer "bounce"/-50% but I didn't check that yet.

[Haplok]

Thank you for checking, Boeroer!

So it's the same as Chain Shot from Fire in the Hole. Probably the second bounce then goes at 85%x50%x50% -> 21% of original damage (though not quite, that's increased by weapon quality, might, sneak, etc.). Fire in the Hole Chain shot doesn't seem to be worth it for Scouts at least. Unless you mostly care about proccing Combusting Wounds and Avenging Storm.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Haplok

[mant2si]

For what it's worth I checked the dmg malus of Driving Flight. It's -50% or in other words: it works like a graze in terms of dmg. The effect is called "bounce" so it maybe that all jumping effects suffer "bounce"/-50% but I didn't check that yet.

.... and DW nerf will make yours projectile do even less damage Thanks Obsidian

Edited September 5, 2018 by mant2si

[Boeroer]

Because of double inversion the dmg loss is even more severe as soon as you have dmg bonuses (like from MIG and/or crit, abilities and so on). -50% --> -75% if I'm not mistaken?

 

The "good" thing is that if you have a lot of dmg maluses like that (graze, jump, another jump and dual wieldig full attacks) the accumulated malus is not as bad as one might think. But dmg bonuses get eaten up like nothing.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Boeroer

[mant2si]

 

@mant2si, this is a nice video for ranger melee but can you handle the last bosses properly ? how much DPS are you able to do ?

 

The cool thing about rangers is not their DPS, but how they synergy with multi-projectile mechanic, for example L19 Ranger critical hit can interrupt target with 50% chance, combine this with potion that increase interruption chance and drug that give 15% chance interrupt on hit and equip Xefa's Empirical Explication with Kitchen Stove

 

And  any boss will stun-locked  ;D 5 - 6 interruptions per 1 full-attack and knock-back from Xefa's Empirical Explication, make you the stronger CC guy vs bosses

 

Or take look on Twinned Shot, this is multi-projectile ability (I assume which scaled with PL), take Watershaper focus or Frostseeker and enjoy 200 - 400 AOE damages. 

 

For melee setup I already show you WW strike

 

I found their penetration to low for solo PotD, but in party with at least 2 persons, rangers is very usefully

[Teclis23]

 

 

@mant2si, this is a nice video for ranger melee but can you handle the last bosses properly ? how much DPS are you able to do ?

 

The cool thing about rangers is not their DPS, but how they synergy with multi-projectile mechanic, for example L19 Ranger critical hit can interrupt target with 50% chance, combine this with potion that increase interruption chance and drug that give 15% chance interrupt on hit and equip Xefa's Empirical Explication with Kitchen Stove

 

And  any boss will stun-locked  ;D 5 - 6 interruptions per 1 full-attack and knock-back from Xefa's Empirical Explication, make you the stronger CC guy vs bosses

 

Or take look on Twinned Shot, this is multi-projectile ability (I assume which scaled with PL), take Watershaper focus or Frostseeker and enjoy 200 - 400 AOE damages. 

 

For melee setup I already show you WW strike

 

I found their penetration to low for solo PotD, but in party with at least 2 persons, rangers is very usefully

 

why bother

 

A monk can actually stun (not interupt) with stunning blows. He can do this in a AOE with the right weapons

 

Hey thats a thought maybe a ranger/ monk focusing on Interupts and stuns?

 

Sounds like a good build

Edited September 5, 2018 by Teclis23

[mant2si]

 

 

 

@mant2si, this is a nice video for ranger melee but can you handle the last bosses properly ? how much DPS are you able to do ?

 

The cool thing about rangers is not their DPS, but how they synergy with multi-projectile mechanic, for example L19 Ranger critical hit can interrupt target with 50% chance, combine this with potion that increase interruption chance and drug that give 15% chance interrupt on hit and equip Xefa's Empirical Explication with Kitchen Stove

 

And  any boss will stun-locked  ;D 5 - 6 interruptions per 1 full-attack and knock-back from Xefa's Empirical Explication, make you the stronger CC guy vs bosses

 

Or take look on Twinned Shot, this is multi-projectile ability (I assume which scaled with PL), take Watershaper focus or Frostseeker and enjoy 200 - 400 AOE damages. 

 

For melee setup I already show you WW strike

 

I found their penetration to low for solo PotD, but in party with at least 2 persons, rangers is very usefully

 

why bother

 

A monk can actually stun (not interupt) with stunning blows. He can do this in a AOE with the right weapons

 

Hey thats a thought maybe a ranger/ monk focusing on Interupts and stuns?

 

Sounds like a good build

 

Maybe because Monk target bosses fortitude and ranger target deflection ? Or maybe because Frostseeker/Rod with Twin Shot clear entire pack  with single hit ? Or maybe because WW + Avenging Storm  ?

 

You can easily find few post where ranger can overcome all other classes in DPS (exclude Envoker)

Edited September 5, 2018 by mant2si

[Somnium_Meum]

You can easily find few post where ranger can overcome all other classes in DPS (exclude Envoker)

 

Hehe, no. Ranger is one of the weaker classes when it comes to DPS.

I doubt Ranger could challenge Sage, Shadowdancer or CW Wizard in terms of DPS, in both single-target and multi-target scenarios.

[Teclis23]

I think he is reffering to builds with a ranger using watershapers focus where driving flight makes its effect proc alot and go nuts

 

The rod got nerfed in the last patch so i dont think it works like he is reffering to anymore anyway

 

And yeah rangers clearly arent the highest dps classes

Edited September 5, 2018 by Teclis23