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I don't like a lot of the single target buffs like Valorous Echos.  Even a 20 INT Cipher is not going to overcome to opportunity cost of buffing a party member with +15% damage for 30 seconds, when an auto attack or damaging spell would do more damage (and much earlier in the fight too, not amortized over the 30 second time span).

 

Why does everyone gets access to Arms Bearer, but only rogues get Deep Pockets?

 

Wizards equipping a grimoire containing a spell they already know should grant a power level bonus for the spell.

 

Some of the level 1 skills should be unlocked in pairs to make the cost of picking them cheaper.

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Eh Streetfighter is a one trick pony. Sure it's powerful but it *requires* the use of the Blunderbuss. Doing that every fight is tedious. Maybe for power gamers it's the best for DPS but for those looking for more versatility and less redundancy, Trickster is def better. Plus you still have to deal with then negative penalties of Flanked. And maintaining Bloodied is a whole 'nother beast.

Edited by Verde
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Eh Streetfighter is a one trick pony. Sure it's powerful but it *requires* the use of the Blunderbuss. Doing that every fight is tedious. Maybe for power gamers it's the best for DPS but for those looking for more versatility and less redundancy, Trickster is def better. Plus you still have to deal with thennegatice penalties of Flanked.

My maurauder, berserker/streetfighter, is an absolute terror on PotD. I have her using two handed weapons and find it really easy keeping her alive and at least one of the conditions to activate streetfighter. Even when she isnt at full speed and damage, she has enough pen and damage types to make a huge dent. Using willbreaker and lord darryns voulge.

 

Edit: not solo btw, in a party with a herald healer/tank and eder as a persistent distraction tank.

Edited by arkane83
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Well I can attest to the beastliness of a Marauder, for sure. Do you think your Marauder has more survivability than a Trickster/Unbroken? Or CC than a Trickster/Beguiler. Different flavors, both subclasses are strong. So you can amend my initial statement :)

Edited by Verde
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But gameplay wise people often complain that soul blade’s discount on shred spells is mostly pointless and that it advertises itself as a hybrid spell/melee damage dealer, but ends up playing as a strict melee class with a few AoE debuffs. Shred spells “marking” enemies to be damaged by soul annihilation would solve both of those problems and and add interesting complexity to soul blade’s play.

Exactly)

It would also make soulblade much more useful during ship battles with a lot of enemies. At least it would help to avoid thoughts of the "I'd rather have an aoe ascendant right now" sort.

 

I haven’t tested it extremely thoroughly, but I’m fairly sure. I played around with a seer with 1 int in the console to see how it interacts with takedown combo and what kind of damage per tick I could get. But I don’t remember if I tested with different int values. However, it does noticeably more damage per tick on a graze and noticeably less on a crit. I think this is the case with any DoT that lists it’s total damage over duration in the ability description as opposed to the DoTs that list damage per tick.

Definitely gonna check it on the weekend then.

 


I am mainly a Priest guy so whenever you are inclined, I would enjoy reading.

Here we go :)

 

Priest:

  • Subclasses:

    Overall: getting spells from other classes is very useful, since in a way you multi-class not 2 classes but two and a half; and depending on the synergy between them player can get pretty nice results.

    Now let's take a look how many cross-class spells/abilities each subclass gets:

    • Priest of Berath: 4 druid spells
    • Priest of Eothas: 1 druid spell
    • Priest of Magran: 4 evocation spells
    • Priest of Skaen: 3 rogue abilities
    • Priest of Wael: 1 conjuration and 5 illusion spells
    No wonder many find priest of Eothas to be the least flexible option. And priest of Skaen kinda viable but hard to make an optimal build with (as the player can multi-class into an actual martial class instead)

    At the same time, priest of Wael has the most variants when it comes to multi-classing. He is great for a debilitator type of character; and also for a plethora of other builds that just need those extra defenses.

    That's why I would make a few adjustments to these bonus spell selections.

    • Priest of Berath: looking at Touch of Rot and Rot Skulls, this subclass is mostly meant for DoT focused characters. I.e. those who would increase MIG and INT, and ofc have decent PER to actually apply their effects. That's why Holy Meditation looks a bit unfitting from building point of view; and would definitely switch it with Autumn's Decay or Insect Swarm. And Spreading Plague with Infestation of Maggots.
    • Priest of Eothas: 8 out of 9 predefined spells are all about buffing and healing. And it makes you wonder, why Sunbeam is there.

      This subclass requires either more spells that deal [damage + affliction] in order to support such sunbeam archetype, or get rid of this spell and go full buffer/healer instead. The second way is easier and doesn't clash with Wael. That's why I would swap Sunbeam with Nature's Vigor.

      Also: having just 1 non-priest spell doesn't differentiate enough this subclass from other kinds of priests. Thus would end up with: 1. Nature's Vigor; 2. Withdraw; 3. Nature's Balm; 4. Circle of Protection; 5. Cleansing Wind; 6. Minor Intercesion; 7. Ressurection or Nature's Bounty

    • Priest of Magran: It's weird that if I want to create a fire priest... Berath and Wael are supperior options. Reason being: the most damage is dealt via DoTs. Ray of Fire and Flame Shield don't look all that amazing, and are the spells that I'll rarely cast. Not to mention that casting Torrent of Flame as rank 7 spell instead of Cleansing Flames just not going to happen.

      I would much prefer the following spell selection:

      1. Fan of Flames; 2. Concelhaut's Corrosive Siphon or Combusting Wounds; 3. Fireball; 4. Shinning Beacon; 5. Wall of Flame or Torrent of Flame; 6. Pillar of Holy Fire; 7. Cleansing Flames

    • Priest of Skaen: first of all ask yourself how would you build such a priest in order for him to be competitive and not getting trumped by possible alternatives? Why would a fighter multi-class with Scaen and not assassin/streetfighter/trickster instead? Is bleakwalker/skaen on par with bleakwalker/devout or bleakwalker/berserker? Atm the only evident synergy is between skaen and assassin because of Shadowing Beyond at rank 5; and that's not really enough.

      Thus suggesting the following selection: 1. Cripling Strike; 2. Spiritual Weapon; 3. Sneak Attack; 4. Confounding Blind; 5. Shadowing Beyond; 6. Eliminating Blow; 7. Minor Avatar

    • Priest of Wael: comes with 5 wonderful wizard spells, a less wonderful Confusion (which was really strong in PoE1 and is meh in Deadfire) and Iconic Projection which just doesn't fit here (because Wael selection is focused on defences and cc; all being effective even with dumped MIG). Also Wael violates the following principle: a priest cannot get wizard spell earlier than wizard. And I am referring to Arcane Veil here, which is a rank 2 spell.

      Thus suggesting the following selection: 1. Spirit Shield; 2. Arcane Veil; 3. Curse of Blackened Sight; 4. Llengrath's Displaced Image; 5. Minor Grimoire Imprint; 6. Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment; 7. Gaze of Adragan

  • Spells:

    First I'll list the spells I like - i.e. the ones looking at which I'm thinking, hmm, maybe I can find a spot for priest in my party?:

    • Suppress Afflictions: losing control of your tanks or dps'ers is always unpleasant, this spell gives you time to deal with it.
    • Withdraw: shenanigans stuff
    • Consecrated Ground (before nerf): it's an AoE Heal over Time, meaning that with decent PL, MIG and INT and can result in a decent amount of total healing. The -28% nerf substantially reduced it through, and it feels like it's asking for multi-classing with Helwalker now.
    • Shining Beacon: bread and butter spell for a damage dealing priest. It has 20% lower base damage than in PoE1 and you can't cast 5 of them, but it's still good enough to want a fire priest.
    • Triumph of Crusaders: enables a glass-cannon dps party member with decent self-sustainance. Although a bit fades away in late game, provided that health pools increase faster than healing scaling
    • Devotions for the Faithful (before the nerf): was a very strong spell. +20/-20 acc in medium aoe can hardly be under-appreciated. Now through it's just a shadow of former glory. It's still decent, but the fact that it is an active effect, makes it less useful when you have other +acc actives, like a paladin with Zealous Focus
    • Circle of Protection: on average, it's like reducing the total damage your party takes by ~30% and even more on characters with already relatively high defenses
    • Barring Deaths Door: shenanigans stuff and eternal love of streetfighters, berserkers, death godlikes..
    • Salvation of Time: buffs prolongation and shenanigans stuff
    • Cleansing Flames: respectable damage, and double dps on all party DoT. Superb spell.
    • Storm of Holy Fire: do love the periodic damage. As it also results in respectable total damage amount.
    • Spark the Souls of the Righteous: high damage potential if you have enough summons or dominated enemies.
    • Hand of Weal and Woe: high damage, high healing.
    • Symbol of X: great all around.
    The rest of the spells, I personally find less useful. Either because of cast times, or because they share the same rank (and they fight for the slot), or because of the nature of the fights.

    And encounter design imho is the reason why priest inspirations aren't that impactful. Let's take Holy Power: AoE Strong inspiration could be fight breaking, if there was a numerous amount of fights were enemy throws a stun with huge radius and accuracy. In this case priest could run to his party and unstun them. But since I haven't encountered such scenario, it's just a measy give +5 MIG to all in a tiny aoe, and do nothing for 7s.

    Holy Power would also be useful if there were a lot of high-AR enemies, that would also toss quick Dazed aoes. And the only way to penetrate them would be to get rid of this might affliction. But again, don't really remember that happening. Not to mention that Holy Power has only 1.5m radius, and it would require a squishy priest to run into close range and risk getting focused; or if it's an armored frontline priest, enjoy a quite long recovery. Thus I would rather look at other means to get rid of Dazed. It could be liberating exhortation, or frenzy, some fast stuff.

     

    At the same time, if all these inspirations had faster cast/recovery time, it could potentially be unpleasant to play vs enemy priests, who could potentially quickly cancel a lot of hard-cc effects. What gives?

    - either increase the +stat on all inspirations from +5 to +7, to make them more desirable from +stat/+defence pov; not just as anti-cc

    - or increase the aoe

    - or let them give some bonus +acc or +defense

    - or give 1 inspiration per-rank for free? So these would end to be just situational spells

    - or prayers and litanies could give one tier better inspiration than they currently do

     

    So, here are the changes that I would make:

    • Interdiction: either increase duration from 7 to 8s; or increase the area; or make it 1.5s cast time
    • Restore: this spell doesn't scale as fast as health pools with level. Could get +15% per PL?
    • Holy Power: 1.5m radius -> 2.5m radius, and +5% damage
    • Barbs of Condemnation: target takes damage, and all enemies in 1.5m aoe get -7 to all defenses
    • Halt: immobilize -> suspend beneficial effects and immobilize; or immobilize and reduce range by 50%
    • Holy Meditation: 2.5m -> 5.0m aoe
    • Repulsing Seal: 4.5s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 1.5s cast + 3.0s recovery
    • Pillar of Faith: 4.5s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 3.0s cast + 4.0s recovery and 2.5m radius
    • Warding Seal: 4.5s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 3.0s cast + 3.0s recovery
    • Consecrated Ground: 5hp/3s -> 6hp/3s
    • Divine Mark: 4.5s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 3.0s cast + 3.0s recovery; optionally could deal 20% less damage, as it doesn't compare with DW Full Attacks, and is taken more for that -25 deflection malus, but being mia for 7.5s is a bit too much;

      Or instead of casting time reduction; it could deal 20% more damage in order to be somewhat competitive dps-wise

    • Despondent Blows: 1.5m radius -> 2.5m
    • Litany for the Body: 3.0s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 1.5s cast + 3.0s recovery | and Hardy -> Nimble and Fit (rank 4 has a lot of good spells, having this litany provide just hardy, is not enough provided the opportunity cost)
    • Litany for the Spirit: 0.5s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 1.5s cast + 3.0s recovery | and Acute -> Resolute and Smart
    • Triumph of Crusaders: 80 -> 100 health restored
    • Circle of Protection: 4.5s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 3.0s cast + 4.0s recovery
    • Searing Seal: 4.5s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 3.0s cast + 3.0s recovery
    • Champion's Boon: 3.0s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 1.5s cast + 3.0s recovery
    • Minor Avatar: +20% damage with weapons -> +25% damage with everything; +40 max hp -> +80 max hp
    • Crowns for the Faithful: 1.5m radius -> 2.5m; ar as suggested by mosspit: provide tier 2 inspirations instead of tier 1
    • Rank 9 spells: in addition to their effects, add +10s to Minor Avatar duration if active.
    And last thing: looking at the possibility of building a soft debuffing priest (wael with interdiction, despondent blows/divine mark, devotions and so on), the rank 2 looks to lack an affliction inflicting spell. Some kind of "Berath's Grasp": sicken all enemies in 2.0m aoe would be really handy. This would enable a low-might debilitating priest that dazes, blinds, and indirectly deals damage by lowering enemy constitution.

How likely is it that Obsidian would be willing to implement this stuff?

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It is Obs prerogative to change up the skills. But they are known to do pretty massive revamp of classes in the past. For both nerfs and buffs. Case in point would be Rangers in PoE1 where the pets were initially hopeless but later on were buffed to the levels where pets builds were viable (or even strong) in later patches.

Edited by mosspit
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<p>

 

But gameplay wise people often complain that soul blade’s discount on shred spells is mostly pointless and that it advertises itself as a hybrid spell/melee damage dealer, but ends up playing as a strict melee class with a few AoE debuffs. Shred spells “marking” enemies to be damaged by soul annihilation would solve both of those problems and and add interesting complexity to soul blade’s play.

Exactly)

It would also make soulblade much more useful during ship battles with a lot of enemies. At least it would help to avoid thoughts of the "I'd rather have an aoe ascendant right now" sort.

 

I haven’t tested it extremely thoroughly, but I’m fairly sure. I played around with a seer with 1 int in the console to see how it interacts with takedown combo and what kind of damage per tick I could get. But I don’t remember if I tested with different int values. However, it does noticeably more damage per tick on a graze and noticeably less on a crit. I think this is the case with any DoT that lists it’s total damage over duration in the ability description as opposed to the DoTs that list damage per tick.

Definitely gonna check it on the weekend then.

 


I am mainly a Priest guy so whenever you are inclined, I would enjoy reading.

Here we go :)

 

Priest:

  • Subclasses:

    Overall: getting spells from other classes is very useful, since in a way you multi-class not 2 classes but two and a half; and depending on the synergy between them player can get pretty nice results.

    Now let's take a look how many cross-class spells/abilities each subclass gets:

    • Priest of Berath: 4 druid spells
    • Priest of Eothas: 1 druid spell
    • Priest of Magran: 4 evocation spells
    • Priest of Skaen: 3 rogue abilities
    • Priest of Wael: 1 conjuration and 5 illusion spells
    No wonder many find priest of Eothas to be the least flexible option. And priest of Skaen kinda viable but hard to make an optimal build with (as the player can multi-class into an actual martial class instead)

    At the same time, priest of Wael has the most variants when it comes to multi-classing. He is great for a debilitator type of character; and also for a plethora of other builds that just need those extra defenses.

    That's why I would make a few adjustments to these bonus spell selections.

    • Priest of Berath: looking at Touch of Rot and Rot Skulls, this subclass is mostly meant for DoT focused characters. I.e. those who would increase MIG and INT, and ofc have decent PER to actually apply their effects. That's why Holy Meditation looks a bit unfitting from building point of view; and would definitely switch it with Autumn's Decay or Insect Swarm. And Spreading Plague with Infestation of Maggots.
    • Priest of Eothas: 8 out of 9 predefined spells are all about buffing and healing. And it makes you wonder, why Sunbeam is there.

      This subclass requires either more spells that deal [damage + affliction] in order to support such sunbeam archetype, or get rid of this spell and go full buffer/healer instead. The second way is easier and doesn't clash with Wael. That's why I would swap Sunbeam with Nature's Vigor.

      Also: having just 1 non-priest spell doesn't differentiate enough this subclass from other kinds of priests. Thus would end up with: 1. Nature's Vigor; 2. Withdraw; 3. Nature's Balm; 4. Circle of Protection; 5. Cleansing Wind; 6. Minor Intercesion; 7. Ressurection or Nature's Bounty

    • Priest of Magran: It's weird that if I want to create a fire priest... Berath and Wael are supperior options. Reason being: the most damage is dealt via DoTs. Ray of Fire and Flame Shield don't look all that amazing, and are the spells that I'll rarely cast. Not to mention that casting Torrent of Flame as rank 7 spell instead of Cleansing Flames just not going to happen.

      I would much prefer the following spell selection:

      1. Fan of Flames; 2. Concelhaut's Corrosive Siphon or Combusting Wounds; 3. Fireball; 4. Shinning Beacon; 5. Wall of Flame or Torrent of Flame; 6. Pillar of Holy Fire; 7. Cleansing Flames

    • Priest of Skaen: first of all ask yourself how would you build such a priest in order for him to be competitive and not getting trumped by possible alternatives? Why would a fighter multi-class with Scaen and not assassin/streetfighter/trickster instead? Is bleakwalker/skaen on par with bleakwalker/devout or bleakwalker/berserker? Atm the only evident synergy is between skaen and assassin because of Shadowing Beyond at rank 5; and that's not really enough.

      Thus suggesting the following selection: 1. Cripling Strike; 2. Spiritual Weapon; 3. Sneak Attack; 4. Confounding Blind; 5. Shadowing Beyond; 6. Eliminating Blow; 7. Minor Avatar

    • Priest of Wael: comes with 5 wonderful wizard spells, a less wonderful Confusion (which was really strong in PoE1 and is meh in Deadfire) and Iconic Projection which just doesn't fit here (because Wael selection is focused on defences and cc; all being effective even with dumped MIG). Also Wael violates the following principle: a priest cannot get wizard spell earlier than wizard. And I am referring to Arcane Veil here, which is a rank 2 spell.

      Thus suggesting the following selection: 1. Spirit Shield; 2. Arcane Veil; 3. Curse of Blackened Sight; 4. Llengrath's Displaced Image; 5. Minor Grimoire Imprint; 6. Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment; 7. Gaze of Adragan

  • Spells:

    First I'll list the spells I like - i.e. the ones looking at which I'm thinking, hmm, maybe I can find a spot for priest in my party?:

    • Suppress Afflictions: losing control of your tanks or dps'ers is always unpleasant, this spell gives you time to deal with it.
    • Withdraw: shenanigans stuff
    • Consecrated Ground (before nerf): it's an AoE Heal over Time, meaning that with decent PL, MIG and INT and can result in a decent amount of total healing. The -28% nerf substantially reduced it through, and it feels like it's asking for multi-classing with Helwalker now.
    • Shining Beacon: bread and butter spell for a damage dealing priest. It has 20% lower base damage than in PoE1 and you can't cast 5 of them, but it's still good enough to want a fire priest.
    • Triumph of Crusaders: enables a glass-cannon dps party member with decent self-sustainance. Although a bit fades away in late game, provided that health pools increase faster than healing scaling
    • Devotions for the Faithful (before the nerf): was a very strong spell. +20/-20 acc in medium aoe can hardly be under-appreciated. Now through it's just a shadow of former glory. It's still decent, but the fact that it is an active effect, makes it less useful when you have other +acc actives, like a paladin with Zealous Focus
    • Circle of Protection: on average, it's like reducing the total damage your party takes by ~30% and even more on characters with already relatively high defenses
    • Barring Deaths Door: shenanigans stuff and eternal love of streetfighters, berserkers, death godlikes..
    • Salvation of Time: buffs prolongation and shenanigans stuff
    • Cleansing Flames: respectable damage, and double dps on all party DoT. Superb spell.
    • Storm of Holy Fire: do love the periodic damage. As it also results in respectable total damage amount.
    • Spark the Souls of the Righteous: high damage potential if you have enough summons or dominated enemies.
    • Hand of Weal and Woe: high damage, high healing.
    • Symbol of X: great all around.
    The rest of the spells, I personally find less useful. Either because of cast times, or because they share the same rank (and they fight for the slot), or because of the nature of the fights.

    And encounter design imho is the reason why priest inspirations aren't that impactful. Let's take Holy Power: AoE Strong inspiration could be fight breaking, if there was a numerous amount of fights were enemy throws a stun with huge radius and accuracy. In this case priest could run to his party and unstun them. But since I haven't encountered such scenario, it's just a measy give +5 MIG to all in a tiny aoe, and do nothing for 7s.

    Holy Power would also be useful if there were a lot of high-AR enemies, that would also toss quick Dazed aoes. And the only way to penetrate them would be to get rid of this might affliction. But again, don't really remember that happening. Not to mention that Holy Power has only 1.5m radius, and it would require a squishy priest to run into close range and risk getting focused; or if it's an armored frontline priest, enjoy a quite long recovery. Thus I would rather look at other means to get rid of Dazed. It could be liberating exhortation, or frenzy, some fast stuff.

     

    At the same time, if all these inspirations had faster cast/recovery time, it could potentially be unpleasant to play vs enemy priests, who could potentially quickly cancel a lot of hard-cc effects. What gives?

    - either increase the +stat on all inspirations from +5 to +7, to make them more desirable from +stat/+defence pov; not just as anti-cc

    - or increase the aoe

    - or let them give some bonus +acc or +defense

    - or give 1 inspiration per-rank for free? So these would end to be just situational spells

    - or prayers and litanies could give one tier better inspiration than they currently do

     

    So, here are the changes that I would make:

    • Interdiction: either increase duration from 7 to 8s; or increase the area; or make it 1.5s cast time
    • Restore: this spell doesn't scale as fast as health pools with level. Could get +15% per PL?
    • Holy Power: 1.5m radius -> 2.5m radius, and +5% damage
    • Barbs of Condemnation: target takes damage, and all enemies in 1.5m aoe get -7 to all defenses
    • Halt: immobilize -> suspend beneficial effects and immobilize; or immobilize and reduce range by 50%
    • Holy Meditation: 2.5m -> 5.0m aoe
    • Repulsing Seal: 4.5s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 1.5s cast + 3.0s recovery
    • Pillar of Faith: 4.5s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 3.0s cast + 4.0s recovery and 2.5m radius
    • Warding Seal: 4.5s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 3.0s cast + 3.0s recovery
    • Consecrated Ground: 5hp/3s -> 6hp/3s
    • Divine Mark: 4.5s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 3.0s cast + 3.0s recovery; optionally could deal 20% less damage, as it doesn't compare with DW Full Attacks, and is taken more for that -25 deflection malus, but being mia for 7.5s is a bit too much;

      Or instead of casting time reduction; it could deal 20% more damage in order to be somewhat competitive dps-wise

    • Despondent Blows: 1.5m radius -> 2.5m
    • Litany for the Body: 3.0s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 1.5s cast + 3.0s recovery | and Hardy -> Nimble and Fit (rank 4 has a lot of good spells, having this litany provide just hardy, is not enough provided the opportunity cost)
    • Litany for the Spirit: 0.5s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 1.5s cast + 3.0s recovery | and Acute -> Resolute and Smart
    • Triumph of Crusaders: 80 -> 100 health restored
    • Circle of Protection: 4.5s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 3.0s cast + 4.0s recovery
    • Searing Seal: 4.5s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 3.0s cast + 3.0s recovery
    • Champion's Boon: 3.0s cast + 3.0s recovery -> 1.5s cast + 3.0s recovery
    • Minor Avatar: +20% damage with weapons -> +25% damage with everything; +40 max hp -> +80 max hp
    • Crowns for the Faithful: 1.5m radius -> 2.5m; ar as suggested by mosspit: provide tier 2 inspirations instead of tier 1
    • Rank 9 spells: in addition to their effects, add +10s to Minor Avatar duration if active.
    And last thing: looking at the possibility of building a soft debuffing priest (wael with interdiction, despondent blows/divine mark, devotions and so on), the rank 2 looks to lack an affliction inflicting spell. Some kind of "Berath's Grasp": sicken all enemies in 2.0m aoe would be really handy. This would enable a low-might debilitating priest that dazes, blinds, and indirectly deals damage by lowering enemy constitution.

I haven’t had the time to reply in the detail that I’d like, but I have two points.

 

First, regarding the inspiration spells, in addition to the ideas you suggested, here’s another one — have spells like holy power “pulse” every 3 seconds. This doesn’t increase the strength of their effect, but it does give near immunity to the relevant affliction type for the duration of the spell while ensuring the inspiration stays up.

 

Second, I don’t 100% agree with your analysis on priest subclasses. I feel like it’s derived from a motivation to associate each subclass with a highly specialized role. I think allowing a vague sense of role, as well as flavor to guide the spells assigned makes for more interesting choices, since that 1) allows players to feel less bad about choosing a damage-focused priest of Eothas, for example, and 2) a “mushier” list means some spells might be relevant to some builds with other spells relevant to others. That increases build diversity, though we don’t really have that now either because the usefulness of the spells is so variable. I do agree with the way you rank the subclasses and why, though.

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The sad thing is that a lot of these issues came up in Beta when there was perhaps an opportunity to actually make the big changes that we are asking for. Unfortunately the chance was missed and basically nothing got implemented for the betterment of the game.

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Nontheless this could always be good modding material... The game came up just some months ago and already the community provided excellent mods. Maxquest provided one himself.

 

We give our feedback, maybe the devs like it or part of it and will implement it to the game. Maybe not, but chance are that some modder will be interested in it and willing to use it to do his own mod

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My only gripe with leaving stuff to mods is that mods can’t add new VFX or SFX for new spells, and if they can provide at least new icons for them, the icons will more often than not be of a different style and/or lower quality than those Obsidian made.

 

For some people this is but secondary, cosmetic stuff: for me, a deal breaker.

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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The sad thing is that a lot of these issues came up in Beta when there was perhaps an opportunity to actually make the big changes that we are asking for. Unfortunately the chance was missed and basically nothing got implemented for the betterment of the game.

 

Plenty of stuff was fixed.

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There is already a mod that fixes Eothas and the guy seems to be planning to address all the Priest special spells to optimise them.

 

Could you please share the link? I looked for it on Nexus but no luck.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/72?tab=posts

 

Scroll down to Priest New Spells Eothas; he gave Priest of Eothas Bulwark of elements, Enduring Beacon, Pain Block, Sunlance, which I think are much better, more useful spells. IF you do not want the extra spells though, which this addition comes with (and I like playing minimalist when it comes to mods you will have to delete the extra healing spells). He says the other gods are planned and Magran and Berath should be next. Personally looking foward to Skaen the most.

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I haven’t had the time to reply in the detail that I’d like, but I have two points.

 

First, regarding the inspiration spells, in addition to the ideas you suggested, here’s another one — have spells like holy power “pulse” every 3 seconds. This doesn’t increase the strength of their effect, but it does give near immunity to the relevant affliction type for the duration of the spell while ensuring the inspiration stays up.

 

Second, I don’t 100% agree with your analysis on priest subclasses. I feel like it’s derived from a motivation to associate each subclass with a highly specialized role. I think allowing a vague sense of role, as well as flavor to guide the spells assigned makes for more interesting choices, since that 1) allows players to feel less bad about choosing a damage-focused priest of Eothas, for example, and 2) a “mushier” list means some spells might be relevant to some builds with other spells relevant to others. That increases build diversity, though we don’t really have that now either because the usefulness of the spells is so variable. I do agree with the way you rank the subclasses and why, though.

Regarding 1st: I had such a thought. But decided that it would be too strong, and a kinda cheap way to get out from afflictions. Additionally hard-cc is already much weaker than in PoE1, if enemy priests do have / would get access to this stuff, it would weaken the crowd-control even further. Plus there was no such a precedent that a stunned/paralyzed/dominated character could get out of hard-cc without external help?

 

As for point 2: you do make a point. I went in the direction of buffing what I was considered a point forte; plus was approaching deities just like a subclass. Eothas for buffs, Berath for DoTs, Wael for afflictions and defenses; like a trickster for cc, streetfighter for consistent dps, assassin for burst.

But have to agree, there indeed might be some player who would like to deal damage with Eothas.

 

Because different ways to play with a priest, favor different attribute spreads, I have taken a look at current priest spells and sorted them in the following way:

 

YWn5w0x.png

 

Now it became easier to plan, which spells to fit into deity selections, if lets say I want a priest of Berath focused on DoTs, or priest of Berath focused on debuffing.

 

I've also took a look at the related thread started by Stardusk78. And here's the updated suggestion for spell selections:

 

Priest of Berath:

  • 1. Touch of Rot
  • 2. Autumn's Decay
  • 3. Spreading Plague
  • 4. Divine Terror
  • 5. Plague of Insects
  • 6. Rot Skulls
  • 7. Rusted Armor
  • 8. Symbol of Berath
  • 9. Hand Of Berath
Changes made:
  • 2. Holy Meditation -> Autumn's Decay (priest already has enough buffs available at rank 2; he needs a good DoT, heal or debuff)
  • 5. Rot Skulls -> Plague of Insects (druid gets Rot Skulls at rank 6; at the same time priest doesn't have good DoTs for rank 5)
  • 6. Salvation of Time -> Rot Skulls
----------------

 

Priest of Eothas:

  • 1. Sunbeam
  • 2. Lay on Hands
  • 3. Watchful Presence
  • 4. Devotions for the Faithful
  • 5. Enduring Beacon
  • 6. Sunlance (but it would require a slight buff)
  • 7. Ressurrection
  • 8. Symbol of Eothas
  • 9. Light Of Eothas
Changes made:
  • 2. Withdraw -> Lay on Hands (if a priest wants Withdraw he'll be able to learn it anyway; but what a priest lacks at rank 2 is a decent heal or debuff; and the first is more appropriate with Eothas)
  • 5. Revive the Fallen -> Enduring Beacon (although both thematically fit, the beacon is one of the spells that will also allow to build a debuffer)
  • 4. Circle of Protection -> Devotions for the Faithful (because defenses bonus from circle and beacon will not stack)
  • 6. Minnor Intercession -> Sunlance (there was a point about some players going for Eothas subclass because they like it from RP point of view, but making a build for dps. And current Eothas spell selection doesn't have enough dps spells. Sunlance feels appropriate. But it would require a slight buff, in order to compete with Pillar of Holy Fire. For example Sunlance could hit everyone in a line.
----------------

 

Priest of Magran:

  • 1. Fan of Flames
  • 2. Combusting Wounds
  • 3. Rolling Flame
  • 4. Shinning Beacon
  • 5. Torrent of Flame
  • 6. Pillar of Holy Fire
  • 7. Cleansing Flames
  • 8. Symbol Of Magran
  • 9. Magran's Might
Changes made:
  • 2. Spiritual Weapon -> Combusting Wounds
  • 3. Ray of Fire -> Rolling Flame (Rolling Flame just looks more fun and useful atm; btw was also thinking of Fireball, but it feels to be a too signature wizard spell; plus, Fireball is strong enough and we don't want magran priests to trump completely evoker wizards at fire damage, at least not before they get enough missiles spells)
  • 5. Flame Shield -> Torrent of Flame
  • 7. Torrent of Flame -> Cleansing Flames (players will be learning and casting Cleansing Flames anyway, because of it's total damage and synergy with Shining Beacons)
----------------

 

Priest of Wael:

  • 1. Spirit Shield or Arkemyr's Dazzling Lights
  • 2. Arcane Veil
  • 3. Curse of Blackened Sight
  • 4. Llengrath's Displaced Image
  • 5. Ryngrim's Enervating Terror
  • 6. Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment
  • 7. Gaze of Adragan
  • 8. Symbol Of Wael
  • 9. Blessings Of Wael
Changes made:
  • 1. Arcane Veil -> Spirit Shield (Veil is a rank 2 wizard spell; imho priest should not get it before a wizard can)
  • 2. Iconic Projection -> Arcane Veil (there are not enough damaging wizard spells that can be associated with Wael in order to reinforce a damage dealing archetype; plus Wael is more about defenses and debuffing anyway)
  • 3. Mirrored Image -> Curse of Blackened Sight (the deflection bonus clashes with that from Arcane Veil and Llengrath's Displaced Image; better reinforce the debuffing departments)
  • 5. Confusion -> Ryngrim's Enervating Terror (there is currently not enough use for Confusion; While Enervaring Terror plays nicely with priest's Divine Terror from rank 4)
----------------

 

And lastly there is priest of Skaen, which is a different beast entirely.

This is the main subclass that will use weapons the most.

Having only 2 full-attacks was very underwhelming.

And giving 6 - as in the first suggestion - I do think now was a bit too much, if we take into account how much guile it would cost for a rogue.

So here are the following 2 variants:

 

Priest of Skaen v1:

  • 0. Gains a light version of Sneak Attack; loses Holy Radiance
  • 1. Escape
  • 2. Spiritual Weapon
  • 3. Divine Mark
  • 4. Confounding Blind
  • 5. Shadowing Beyond
  • 6. Eliminating Blow
  • 7. Minor Avatar
  • 8. Symbol Of Skaen
  • 9. Revenge of Skaen
Priest of Skaen v2:
  • 1. Escape
  • 2. Spiritual Weapon
  • 3. Confounding Blind
  • 4. Shadowing Beyond
  • 5. Eliminating Blow
  • 6. Deep Wounds
  • 7. Minor Avatar
  • 8. Symbol Of Skaen
  • 9. Revenge of Skaen
v1: Skaen gets 4 full-attack usages; baby sneak attack, but majority of abilities are delayed in comparisson to rogue.

v2: Skaen gets 4 full-attack usages; no sneak attack, and he gets special abilities at the same rank as a rogue would.

v3: Also there can be a variant like v2, but with baby sneak attack, but wouldn't it be too strong?

 

----------------

 

TL.DR:

Berath: gets a slight bonus to DoTing.

Eothas: slight buff to damage dealing and debuffing departments

Magran: streamlined damage dealing across the ranks (especially rank 5)

Wael: removed redundant Mirrored Image. Added Spirit Shield, and buffed his debuffing capability.

Skaen: buffed into a more apt combatant - one who at least can attempt to compete with other martial classes

Edited by MaxQuest
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