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Ansalons Armor Tier List

Armor Tier List Unique Build Guide

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81 replies to this topic

#21
Parasol_Syndicate

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I don't expect to persuade anyone, but Nomad's Brigandine is a really good package. 

 

+5 deflection just for being with allies, enchanted to +5 more in melee, combined with high armor is boss. 

Reposition a front rank character for free to catch anyone trying to flank. if they're alone they get free DR.

That is cheaper and less worrysome than many outcomes available. 


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#22
Manveru123

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Imagine you were at work and you had worked 20 hour (roughly the time i spent writing the guides) on your proposal and your boss just called it "useless", instead of giving you pointers on how to improve the proposal. I have no problem with criticism I just wish you chose a less hostile way of going about it.

Why would a boss give you pointers? He hired you to do a job. You're supposed to know how to do it. If not, get out, he can hire someone better.

Due to the fact that this game offers an incredible amount of different combinations and synergies between items and classes, a generalized "tier list" is completely useless. For example, Deltro's Cage is very strong if you build yourself around Shock damage, with the soulbound weapon and other Shock PL gear. And that's one of the best builds in the game atm. Nomad's Brigandine is fantastic when you combo it with Offensive Parry, there's even a build on the forums that explains the synergy. And Humility has - among other things - 20% Pierce resistance, and is a 0% light armor, which means that your 3 CON 3 RES Wizard with this armor is suddenly less vulnerable to getting one shotted in a ship battle.

TLDR if this really somehow took you 20 hours, well, imagine you could've spent that time watching cat videos.
So I'm not sure where you work, nor do I care enough to get the details, but your mindset is extremely archaic, unproductive, and hostile. I work at a leading small consulting firm with industry leading clients (which I can't divulge here) and at all levels of our org we coach each other and our clients. In fact, a key piece of our value proposition is our executive coaching.

The next time you come across something you need to learn or could benefit from guidance remember your own advice and see how you fair. Trust is built through vulnerability and looking out for others' best interests, not brutish "know or get out" responses.

 

There's a difference between professional coaching and hiring someone who is unable to do his job. I work in gaming industry. When I want something done, I browse the offers of companies and always pick the one that provides the best service. My company hires specialists in every field, and each person is responsible for certain tasks. A marketing director and a programmer will not be able to teach each other anything relevant to the work they're doing, they are supposed to be very good at what THEY do. You can call that however you want to, but in the end.. I'm the client :)



#23
AndreaColombo

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Bit on the off-topic side but hiring someone full-time and being their boss is quite different from contracting someone for a time and being their client.

#24
Manveru123

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Yeah but unless you are a one-man-army indie developer, there are also boss-employer relations inside of your company.



#25
KDubya

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What does 'S tier' stand for?

 

A, B, C, D all make sense but why is 'S tier' higher?

 

I think it'd have been better to organize by weight class, have all the heavy armor together and so on.

 

Listing pros and cons for each and what type of build synergy they have would have ben great.



#26
Boeroer

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That ring that gives you +2 defense for every enemy that engages you: great against a bunch of Xaurips, useless against a bunch of tigers (don't have engagement). And so on.

*Entonia Signet Ring is supposed to give you +2 Defense per engaged enemy.

No. That ring gives you +2 defense for every enemy who engages you - not the other way round. Like I explicitly explained with xaurips/tigers as example. And it works.
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#27
Boeroer

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@Ansalon: I gave constructive criticism - because I didn't simply say "hey it's crap" but wrote down why I think your lists are rather pointless (at least for me) and what could be improved.

I also didn't claim that you got infos from wiki and in-game descriptions: you wrote so yourself.

Calling that "hate" makes you look like a sensitive plant and not like somebody who really wants to discuss his stuff. I gave no insults, no personal attacks but just my personal opinion which in this case might feel harsh. But that doesn't mean I hate or that I don't appreciate the work you might have put into. I just don't think that the form you chose to present your work is very useful. That, and that your research isn't thoroughly done.

If I wouldn't care at all or simply "hate" I wouldn't put that much time into answering to your stuff, naming examples and so on.

I'm also not your boss. In your comparison I would be a colleague who says "it's pointless because X, maybe would be better to put it like Y".
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#28
Ansalon

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Humility: 20% resist against two damage types is low tier? Do you realize how good this is if you build a bit around it?

Again a list that was done with little in-game experience.

There are 8 damage  types in the game. This adds resistance to two of them (albeit they are two of the most common ones). But, assuming you are putting it on a backliner, you are adding a stat (tankiness) to a role that doesn't necessarily need it. I guess you could make it work on a frontline dps aswell but there are just so many good alternatives you can grab early game if you want a low recovery frontline armor, or a high recovery super tanky armor. Again you claim its done with little in-game experience which is a claim you make with no evidence. I do agree that putting it into tier - D might be harsh. Please, if you have a suggestion for a build/situation it is consistently good, then I would be happy to hear a civil well thought out response.


Edited by Ansalon, 12 August 2018 - 06:09 AM.


#29
mant2si

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Humility: 20% resist against two damage types is low tier? Do you realize how good this is if you build a bit around it?

Again a list that was done with little in-game experience.

There are 8 damage  types in the game. This adds resistance to two of them (albeit they are two of the most common ones). But, assuming you are putting it on a backliner, you are adding a stat (tankiness) to a role that doesn't necessarily need it. I guess you could make it work on a frontline dps aswell but there are just so many good alternatives you can grab early game if you want a low recovery frontline armor, or a high recovery super tanky armor. Again you claim its done with little in-game experience which is a claim you make with no evidence. I do agree that putting it into tier - D might be harsh. Please, if you have a suggestion for a build/situation it is consistently good, then I would be happy to hear a civil well thought out response.

 

There a general problem with your guide, your B-S system will make new players misunderstand armor mechanics. You can classify armor by type, write few words about build that can use it..., but now its look like you even didn't check builds list on this forum and only want advertise your own content

Lets me write some example what I expect from your guide

 

Heavy armor - usually used by tank builds or builds that can overcome recovery speed penalty

Tip: To overcome recovery speed penalty use Abraham pet or Armor Grace + Pet (didn't remember pet name)

  • Patinated Plate - good vs group of melee enemies with high attack speed and middle fortitude, bad vs enemies that has crush/shock damage (builds list with this armor)
  • Blackened Plate Armor - good vs enemy that has very high AR because armor passive stack with any other AR reduction debuff (builds list with this armor)

Edited by mant2si, 12 August 2018 - 06:31 AM.

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#30
Boeroer

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By the way - and that Ansalon got right but was critized - Miscreant's Leather is the best dps armor. That's because if you use Cutthroat Cosmo (or Abraham) the recovery penalty of the leather will be smaller than the 10% speed bonus you get from it. That means that you will be faster with Miscr. Leather + Cutthroat Cosmo than with a robe (+Cutthroat Cosmo ;)). AND you will have more AR as a bonus on top.

Edited by Boeroer, 12 August 2018 - 08:04 AM.

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#31
Ansalon

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Most of the posters on this forum are diehard fans and have more knowledge about the game than anywhere else on the net. Combine that with the fact that tier list discussions are always volatile with a lot of differing opinions, and you're presenting yourself as an authority when you clearly haven't tested everything you've listed, you really open yourself up to a lot of criticism.

I guess thats what I get for posting on a forum I'm unfamiliar with. It's abit confusing when people claim that I'm representing myself both as an authority and at the same time claim I have no experience. In three out of four post I even prefaced by saying its based upon my opinion and testing ;/ I guess thats what happens when different people make different assumptions of my intention. My armor tier list is definitely the one I've done the least amount of testing with, mainly because a lot of the enchants are fairly straightforward so making educated guesses are easier. You probably didn't intend it this way but saying "Most of the posters on this forum are diehard fans and have more knowledge about the game than anywhere else on the net" kind of comes across as abit elitist even if it is true or not. The guides wasn't intended for someone who has sunk 300 hours into a game, more of a quick reference list for someone wanting to do their own theorycrafting and to provoke discussion.



#32
Ansalon

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By the way - and that Ansalon got right but was critized - Miscreant's Leather is the best dps armor. That's because if you use Cutthroat Cosmo (or Abraham) the recovery penalty of the leather will be smaller than the 10% speed bonus you get from it. That means that you will be faster with Miscr. Leather + Cutthroat Cosmo than with a robe (+Cutthroat Cosmo ;)). AND you will have more AR as a bonus on top.

My claim was supposed to be this item is the one who has the best mix of survivability/recovery time for a dpser. I'm assuming most people understand that 0% recovery of a robe is faster then 10% recovery of this armor ;)



#33
Ansalon

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Humility: 20% resist against two damage types is low tier? Do you realize how good this is if you build a bit around it?

Again a list that was done with little in-game experience.

There are 8 damage  types in the game. This adds resistance to two of them (albeit they are two of the most common ones). But, assuming you are putting it on a backliner, you are adding a stat (tankiness) to a role that doesn't necessarily need it. I guess you could make it work on a frontline dps aswell but there are just so many good alternatives you can grab early game if you want a low recovery frontline armor, or a high recovery super tanky armor. Again you claim its done with little in-game experience which is a claim you make with no evidence. I do agree that putting it into tier - D might be harsh. Please, if you have a suggestion for a build/situation it is consistently good, then I would be happy to hear a civil well thought out response.

 

There a general problem with your guide, your B-S system will make new players misunderstand armor mechanics. You can classify armor by type, write few words about build that can use it..., but now its look like you even didn't check builds list on this forum and only want advertise your own content

Lets me write some example what I expect from your guide

 

Heavy armor - usually used by tank builds or builds that can overcome recovery speed penalty

Tip: To overcome recovery speed penalty use Abraham pet or Armor Grace + Pet (didn't remember pet name)

  • Patinated Plate - good vs group of melee enemies with high attack speed and middle fortitude, bad vs enemies that has crush/shock damage (builds list with this armor)
  • Blackened Plate Armor - good vs enemy that has very high AR because armor passive stack with any other AR reduction debuff (builds list with this armor)

 

I have only read a small portion of discussions on this forum. This forum is intended for anyone who is interested in Pillars of Eternity to use, not just diehard hardcore fans to post in. Neither is there any reason someone should have to be up to date on every discusssion going on in this forum before posting their opinions. And yes i'm well aware of Armored Grace and Pets. I don't understand why you think I am obligated to format my post according to your preference. In future posts I will take feedback into account but that doesn't mean I will make massive changes to the content I want to put out because a few people gets their panties twisted in a bunch.



#34
1TTFFSSE

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By the way - and that Ansalon got right but was critized - Miscreant's Leather is the best dps armor. That's because if you use Cutthroat Cosmo (or Abraham) the recovery penalty of the leather will be smaller than the 10% speed bonus you get from it. That means that you will be faster with Miscr. Leather + Cutthroat Cosmo than with a robe (+Cutthroat Cosmo ;)). AND you will have more AR as a bonus on top.

High Harbinger's Robes begs to defer.

 

Also weapon switching on 4 weapon slots fire arms with Fleshmender and never reloading. 


Edited by 1TTFFSSE, 12 August 2018 - 12:08 PM.


#35
Raven Darkholme

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If you didn't rate items by something silly like S-Tier etc your lists might be informative for new players.

So far I have not seen a list full of flaws in the rating, which would not matter if you didn't rate items you haven't even tested.

I decided to post in the armour list, because here the rating is the worst by far.

Not only are the best armours like patinated and blackened rated very low, the reasoning for your S-tier armours is very flawed for Deadfire, "highest dps".

This game has as many people already posted, several pets, that not only reduce the recovery of armor, no the best part is, the heavier the armor, the stronger the pet effect.

Gaining 0.2 seconds recovery between a heavy plate and a light armor is most likely the best result you will get if you ahve decent or even high dex.

Sadly you forgot to mention that armor class is much more potent in Deadfire than it was in Poe 1, having no pen results in a 75%+ damage loss for the enemy.

 

Moral of the story:

Don't rate items you never tested.

Let alone in a game you either don't fully understand the mechanics or don't care to explain them to the only people who might find your lists helpful: beginners.


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#36
Dorftek

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Dancer outfits! Where are the dancer outfits?!
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#37
Ansalon

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If you didn't rate items by something silly like S-Tier etc your lists might be informative for new players.

So far I have not seen a list full of flaws in the rating, which would not matter if you didn't rate items you haven't even tested.

I decided to post in the armour list, because here the rating is the worst by far.

Not only are the best armours like patinated and blackened rated very low, the reasoning for your S-tier armours is very flawed for Deadfire, "highest dps".

This game has as many people already posted, several pets, that not only reduce the recovery of armor, no the best part is, the heavier the armor, the stronger the pet effect.

Gaining 0.2 seconds recovery between a heavy plate and a light armor is most likely the best result you will get if you ahve decent or even high dex.

Sadly you forgot to mention that armor class is much more potent in Deadfire than it was in Poe 1, having no pen results in a 75%+ damage loss for the enemy.

 

Moral of the story:

Don't rate items you never tested.

Let alone in a game you either don't fully understand the mechanics or don't care to explain them to the only people who might find your lists helpful: beginners.

 At some point making your tank even tankier will lose a lot of value, especially since most heals are AoE in this game. For instance using patinated plate with 70% recovery means your tank is basically contributing almost nothing other then damage soaking (unless he is a chanter). Put a Reckless Brigandine and a lot of engagement slots (some builds can reach 9ish with items) and suddenly you are sat with a 45% action speed bonus at the start of the fight, meaning you can contribute with a lot of utility like for instance CC. It's a fair criticism of my armour list that i value low recovery over survivability. I am happy to discuss this part. The list was never intended to be an in depth look at the mechanics behind armor itself, and I see no reason why it has to be. This guide does not have to exist in a vacuum. As I said earlier the reason this list is the least thorough is because the mechanics are more straightforward then on a lot of weapons.

 

Why is putting the armors in to a comparative category a problem? There are clear cut cases where some armors are just straight up bad. Why is there a need to pretend that all items in this game is equally viable.


Edited by Ansalon, 12 August 2018 - 08:50 PM.


#38
Raven Darkholme

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Did you even read my post?

Patinated Plate with any of the pets that reduce armor recovery like Cosmo or Abraham (there is at least 2 more) will have less than half a second more recovery than light armor, as long as your dex is decent.

(which it should be if you're so worried about recovery)

My current Solo Paladin/Monk has 0.3s attack and 1.6s recovery time with Patinated Plate, if it was a fighter it would be 0.2 less recovery, if I used light armor it would be 0.2s less.

If it was a fighter wearing light armor it would only be 0.3s saved, this is called diminishing returns.

 

With light armor there will be no enemy on upscaled PotD which has no pen and gets 75% damage penalty, with patinated and a tanky class like paladin there wil be a lot of enemies doing 2 damage per hit.

This has nothing to do with tanks, but the pets having more favourable returns the heavier the armor and diminishing returns the lighter the armor.

Do you consider the 0.3s attack and 1.6s recovery of my patinated plate wearing char slow? How much faster ar your chars wearing light armor?


Edited by Raven Darkholme, 13 August 2018 - 01:28 AM.

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#39
mant2si

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Not only that, but Reckless Brigandine progression is non linear, and you can't fill all 9 slot (not sure about this value), Reckless Brigandine will give you (20 - 25)% Action Speed in average, for fighter classes this mean 17% recovery speed. 17% situational recovery speed or 30% to stun retaliation and 75% damage reduction for all range attacks :D



#40
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Why is putting the armors in to a comparative category a problem? There are clear cut cases where some armors are just straight up bad. Why is there a need to pretend that all items in this game is equally viable.

Probably because the list isn't exhaustive as to why those items are superior to another. Not everyone will create the same build, with the same item set and by building a "tier-list" you're taking away from that. Sure, Miscreant Leather is a good armor choice for X reasons when utilizing Y build choices. 

But - It's value is undermined with other item combinations on a different build result in a more optimized setup. Because there exists so many build design choices, a generalist rating system simply cannot be accurate beyond treating it as a personal opinion. That seems to be the general gripe with the ratings used for certain armor choices.

 

It's also unfair to state their ranking is not in a vacuum, but discount build choices (besides your own) and other items which compliment them beyond their individual characteristics and expect the current ranking to go uncontested. It echoes some of the statements pointing to a lack of thorough testing. 

I understand what you were trying to accomplish and as a newish Deadfire player, I appreciate it - but as a hardcore gamer as well this list doesn't provide me any additional information beyond player bias towards a certain build style. 

 

Sorry.


 







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