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Ansalons One Handed Melee Weapon Tier List

Weapon Unique Tier List Guide One Handed Melee

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#41
Manveru123

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I haven't tested them all


Then the list is of little relevance, right?

Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well.

Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out.

Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing).

Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge.

There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion.

 

Hel Beckoning and Grave calling only summon when killing spirits/Vessels no? So as in the preface to my guide, items like these will be very powerful in those rare circumstances but terrible in others.

 

If only there was a class that could summon an unlimited number of spirits and vessels.


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#42
Ansalon

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To say, “you never used it” so your list is meaningless is simply absurd, borderline obstinate. 

Hi, this is my list of the tastiest food in the world. I never even tried any of those, but that doesn't mean the list is useless!

 

Hi this is my list of the tastiest pizzas in the world. I haven't tried every pizza topping combination imaginable, but I have tried enough toppings in different combinations to make a pretty educated guess on how each individual pizza will taste if you put these toppings together. I certainly didnt like putting ice cream on my pizza! Maybe some people in very rare circumstances will like it, but for the most part I think most people won't!.

 

Your "educated guess" put in Tier D a weapon that casts a foe-only Chill Fog on kill and summons a monster on each kill (that ignores summon limits). And yet in tier S you put a weapon that is inferior to every other Sabre in like 80% of the encounters. I'm sorry but it is really difficult to take you seriously. 

 

Please remind me to never try your pizza recommendations.

 

This only works vs Vessels making it only useful in rare occassions.



#43
Ansalon

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I haven't tested them all


Then the list is of little relevance, right?

Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well.

Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out.

Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing).

Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge.

There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion.

 

Hel Beckoning and Grave calling only summon when killing spirits/Vessels no? So as in the preface to my guide, items like these will be very powerful in those rare circumstances but terrible in others.

 

If only there was a class that could summon an unlimited number of spirits and vessels.

 

I'm guessing there is some chanter synergy I'm not aware of. Please enlighten me. A link to a discussion would be very helpful.



#44
mant2si

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If only there was a class that could summon an unlimited number of spirits and vessels.

That will be cool, then we would be able to create an army of imps and capture the Deadfire archipelago


Edited by mant2si, 13 August 2018 - 03:44 AM.


#45
VXer

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This list is based on my personal opinion and I haven't tested them all. Quite possible I haven't taken into account all possible synergies so some might be undervalued. A lot of them will be weaker if they are used with a class that doesn't synergize with their effects. All values are ingame values. The wiki is outdated since the 1.2 nerfs. Some of the lower rated weapons can be exceptionally strong in very rare scenarios (for instance vs spirits) but I am mostly rating them for their general usefulness.
 
To clarify, Weapons are listed randomly within any Tier. Might change that at some point but it will require some work. I am also comparing weapons at max enchants. I haven't taken into account that some weapons will be very useful early on in the game if they start out with high weapon quality, forgoing the need to upgrade them. I will update this list with Beast of Winter Weapons when I have the time.
 
</snip>

 
Gotta ask why specialized item choices are in a list you're rating for general usefulness? Pukestabber is a strong weapon in a niche build, utilizing certain consumables in combination with another item choice.
 

The only weapon I can actually agree with it's place is Mātakau, but that's because it starts at -5% Damage and only gains +1 Pen vs Vessels after dumping 3,000g into it which is utterly terrible.

I completely disagree with the rating for Gladiator Sword, especially if this is geared towards beginners or for a hardcore gamer looking to complete the game and obtain most items to do a proper theory-craft instead of relying on opinion that's marred with untested ratings. 

It still has Skrim, providing a +15% Damage increase when wielding a shield, it's not soulbound and it's not tied to certain class mechanics. If you don't use a Shield, it's still better than a Fine Sabre.

It's an everyman's sword (Especially when upgraded with Sharpened Blade) Early game this thing's like an A-tier for generic melee builds. It drops off as you gain access to better gear, but that's the entire purpose of the Gladiator Sword. It's your transitional one-hander as you progress through the game. 

 

You also include Animancer's Energy Blade, which generally by the time you get it you've got other overall more useful selections available.
 

As far as I can tell, this is marked as an "S" tier weapon, yet it's described as a backup weapon for situational encounters (C or D examples). Wasn't this list supposed to be a general "usefulness" list? The entire point of an "S" tier "general usefulness" weapon would be it's capability of excelling in most scenarios without the need to rely on other conditions/tactical decisions to come into play.

Because it's a Slashing Weapon that deals Raw Damage instead, it's a "S"ubjective Tier weapon, which isn't that good. Just pull out a different damage type weapon that's probably packing some better rider effects per hit, especially since Weapon Modal is "useless" with the Animancer's Energy Blade so there's nothing tying you down to the Sabre weapon type here.

In fact, optimization to cover multiple damage types at once would generally put a weapon above others due to covering a wider variety of resistances.

Based on how you're selling this tier list, Swords of equal quality to a Sabre would be higher tier, unless the Sabre holds a rider effect on hit that supersedes the dual-damage type nature of the blade since it's supposed to be for general usefulness.

But it's not.

 

You refer to combat mechanics favoring slower attack weapons as a reason for why Rust's Poignard is not S tier, but then list alot of faster-than-normal weapons with action speed increases as part of their abilities in S tier. That in itself is conflicting to why items are, or not are S tier and your bias in favor of low recovery/action speed shows throughout the write-up. 

 

The way grading in this fashion works on the following principle, which you haven't followed if you're making this a generalist tier list for the category defined (one handed melee, in this example). 

S - Best
A - Good
B - Above Average
C - Average
D - Mediocre
E - Bad

 
From everything I've seen out of your tier list, it's in support of a single build style - low recovery, DPS build, graded based on your personal opinion on what's good and what isn't. You've stated yourself some items haven't been tested so it's difficult to really take it seriously or view it as more than an inflated opinion piece to boost views on your media platforms. 
 
​Other people have stated it and I'm going to echo the opinion - Tier lists on these types of games are better focused on the role you are filling and how an item could fulfill that role. There's also the issue of early > mid > late game items where some builds will sit on a defensive start and transition into a more offensive design once the items and power level upgrades start to come online.
 

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#46
Ansalon

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This list is based on my personal opinion and I haven't tested them all. Quite possible I haven't taken into account all possible synergies so some might be undervalued. A lot of them will be weaker if they are used with a class that doesn't synergize with their effects. All values are ingame values. The wiki is outdated since the 1.2 nerfs. Some of the lower rated weapons can be exceptionally strong in very rare scenarios (for instance vs spirits) but I am mostly rating them for their general usefulness.
 
To clarify, Weapons are listed randomly within any Tier. Might change that at some point but it will require some work. I am also comparing weapons at max enchants. I haven't taken into account that some weapons will be very useful early on in the game if they start out with high weapon quality, forgoing the need to upgrade them. I will update this list with Beast of Winter Weapons when I have the time.
 
</snip>

 
Gotta ask why specialized item choices are in a list you're rating for general usefulness? Pukestabber is a strong weapon in a niche build, utilizing certain consumables in combination with another item choice.
 

The only weapon I can actually agree with it's place is Mātakau, but that's because it starts at -5% Damage and only gains +1 Pen vs Vessels after dumping 3,000g into it which is utterly terrible.

I completely disagree with the rating for Gladiator Sword, especially if this is geared towards beginners or for a hardcore gamer looking to complete the game and obtain most items to do a proper theory-craft instead of relying on opinion that's marred with untested ratings. 

It still has Skrim, providing a +15% Damage increase when wielding a shield, it's not soulbound and it's not tied to certain class mechanics. If you don't use a Shield, it's still better than a Fine Sabre.

It's an everyman's sword (Especially when upgraded with Sharpened Blade) Early game this thing's like an A-tier for generic melee builds. It drops off as you gain access to better gear, but that's the entire purpose of the Gladiator Sword. It's your transitional one-hander as you progress through the game. 

 

You also include Animancer's Energy Blade, which generally by the time you get it you've got other overall more useful selections available.
 

As far as I can tell, this is marked as an "S" tier weapon, yet it's described as a backup weapon for situational encounters (C or D examples). Wasn't this list supposed to be a general "usefulness" list? The entire point of an "S" tier "general usefulness" weapon would be it's capability of excelling in most scenarios without the need to rely on other conditions/tactical decisions to come into play.

Because it's a Slashing Weapon that deals Raw Damage instead, it's a "S"ubjective Tier weapon, which isn't that good. Just pull out a different damage type weapon that's probably packing some better rider effects per hit, especially since Weapon Modal is "useless" with the Animancer's Energy Blade so there's nothing tying you down to the Sabre weapon type here.

In fact, optimization to cover multiple damage types at once would generally put a weapon above others due to covering a wider variety of resistances.

Based on how you're selling this tier list, Swords of equal quality to a Sabre would be higher tier, unless the Sabre holds a rider effect on hit that supersedes the dual-damage type nature of the blade since it's supposed to be for general usefulness.

But it's not.

 

You refer to combat mechanics favoring slower attack weapons as a reason for why Rust's Poignard is not S tier, but then list alot of faster-than-normal weapons with action speed increases as part of their abilities in S tier. That in itself is conflicting to why items are, or not are S tier and your bias in favor of low recovery/action speed shows throughout the write-up. 

 

The way grading in this fashion works on the following principle, which you haven't followed if you're making this a generalist tier list for the category defined (one handed melee, in this example). 

S - Best
A - Good
B - Above Average
C - Average
D - Mediocre
E - Bad

 
From everything I've seen out of your tier list, it's in support of a single build style - low recovery, DPS build, graded based on your personal opinion on what's good and what isn't. You've stated yourself some items haven't been tested so it's difficult to really take it seriously or view it as more than an inflated opinion piece to boost views on your media platforms. 
 
​Other people have stated it and I'm going to echo the opinion - Tier lists on these types of games are better focused on the role you are filling and how an item could fulfill that role. There's also the issue of early > mid > late game items where some builds will sit on a defensive start and transition into a more offensive design once the items and power level upgrades start to come online.

 

I agree with your assessment that Gladiator Sword is great early game, but this list is ordering it by max enchants usefulness. I will definitely rate this weapon higher when I make a weapons progression guide. I agree that putting Animancer's Energy Blade highly and weapon vs spirits/vessels low, considering they are both conditionally useful, is abit inconsistent. However I have made notes reflecting on why I decided to put them in their respective place, and I'm giving the reader the benefit of the doubt that they will take that into consideration. I have even given a rough estimation of  what Tier Animancer's should be in, depending on your penetration status.  Rust's Poignard is in my opinion borderline on the edge between tier S and Tier A. That was the reasoning I put forth, to put into context why I didn't rate it higher. I'm happy to discuss if this weapon deserves Tier S.

Like i've stated multiple times, this guide is not supposed to exist in a vacuum.


Edited by Ansalon, 13 August 2018 - 04:53 AM.


#47
Boeroer

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@Ansalon: with Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning a Chanter can kill his own summons and turn them into imps. A great multiclass combo for this is a Beckoner/Berserker because his Carnage kills his very weak skeletons with the blade which will then spawn two big skeletons and one imp. If you kill those two as well you will have three imps. Since you are starting with 6 skeletons you can get 18 imps very quickly and as a bonus trigger Bloodlust and Blood Thirst.

Also works with the skeleton you can summon with each phrase with the high lvl summoning chant.

Same with Hel Beckoning and puny phantoms - but obviously the Grave Calling/Skeleton thing is better because you simply summon more skeletons than phantoms.

Killing enemy vessels is just a nice bonus then.

Edited by Boeroer, 13 August 2018 - 09:57 AM.

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#48
Ansalon

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@Ansalon: with Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning a Chanter can kill his own summons and turn them into imps. A great multiclass combo for this is a Beckoner/Berserker because his Carnage kills his very weak skeletons with the blade which will then spawn two big skeletons and one imp. If you kill those two as well you will have three imps. Since you are starting with 6 skeletons you can get 18 imps very quickly and as a bonus trigger Bloodlust and Blood Thirst.

Also works with the skeleton you can summon with each phrase with the high lvl summoning chant.

Same with Hel Beckoning and puny phantoms - but obviously the Grave Calling/Skeleton thing is better because you simply summon more skeletons than phantoms.

Killing enemy vessels is just a nice bonus then.

Thank you I will look into it when I have the time. Gonna be busy the next few days though.


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#49
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It can be very useful but is also a bit of a hassle. I can't say if it's worth the trouble in he long run - that may differ from player to player. It's hilarious and fun - but nothing I personally would do a whole playthrough with.



#50
thundercleese

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Here's a build based on that strategy. I also probably wouldn't make it through a whole playthrough with it, but it IS fun spawning your imp army.

 

Also, they are both currently bugged and will summon from anything (including inanimate objects) if killed by DoT damage or carnage damage. I don't think this should affect your ranking, but it is fun to get double the imps. :grin:



#51
Ansalon

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Here's a build based on that strategy. I also probably wouldn't make it through a whole playthrough with it, but it IS fun spawning your imp army.

 

Also, they are both currently bugged and will summon from anything (including inanimate objects) if killed by DoT damage or carnage damage. I don't think this should affect your ranking, but it is fun to get double the imps. :grin:

Thanks for the link looks like a lot of fun :) These kind of creative builds are very hard to take into account when trying to determine their true value. Think I will just end up and make a sidenote with a link to this build as an example. Was thinking of maybe making an own category outside of the S - E Tiers that points out some similar shenanigans.



#52
pi2repsion

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Taking a look at your list again, I think Squid's Grasp warrants one more comment. You write: "Decent defensive option for dps frontliner. Very useful in solo play, bit less useful in party play."

 

Which is true enough so far as it goes, but there's one other really good use for it. You've already written about Kapana Taga that it is pretty bonkers for a tank when combined with Reckless Brigandine, but it gets even more bonkers for dual-wielding tanks if you take the madness one step further and pair it with Squid's Grasp. Kapana Taga can provide flanking affliction immunity via All Comers, but when you pair it with Squid's Grasp which provides straight out flanking immunity at all times, you can use the Kapana Taga's enchant Unblockable +4 melee acc/engaged target instead of All Comers. And take Attempted Parlay on Squid's Grasp for +20% action speed whenever 3 or more enemies engage your tank.

 

This combination makes for a very powerful DW party tank, such as the ever popular fighter/rogue with persistent distraction. (It is pretty much my go-to Eder build, though it can obviously be made even more powerful as a custom adventurer/main character build).

 

I'm not arguing that Squid's Grasp should be higher in the tier list, but perhaps add a comment to Kapana Taga and Squid's Grasp about the combo possibility for DW tanking?


Edited by pi2repsion, 09 September 2018 - 05:30 AM.


#53
Lampros

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Now that I've done an almost full PotD run, I just want to add my 5 cents on the weapons I have used extensively:

 

*Modwyr: I know you have this already in the "S tier," but I cannot praise it enough. I also feel I need to be offer another strong endorsement, given that I have read a few derogatory comments about this weapon. This was the best all-around melee 1-hander I have used, and it seems to offer everything you usually look for in a melee weapon - such as strong lashes and speed bonus. And it offers more than the usual checklists, too. It gives you total immunity from mind controls (which is a big deal for me), and it also grants a pretty big front-loaded per rest damage skill. What more do you want from a weapon?

 

Were those who were disappointed with it expecting the female spirit encased in it to jump out and actually fellate you? ;)

 

*Sasha's Singing Scimitar: I know that this weapon is very good for a Chanter, but its use is very limited outside of that class. So I feel it's too situational to be considered "S tier" - or the best sabre in the game per OP's claim.

 

*Glacierbane: I think the OP has it right where it belongs - not quite "S tier" but surely "A tier." But I think the reason it belongs in the second tier has mainly to do with the limitation of warhammers, rather than the weapon itself. That is, for me the base damage is a bit too low for a DPS class, and I'd tag all warhammers with that limitation. I also want to stress that it is curious that the OP left out arguably the most vital benefit of this weapon: The ability to get rid of all enemy buffs for 6 seconds on a critical hit. That is rather massive - especially if you do not have a Wizard with Arcane Dampener along for the ride. When combined with Last Word on the opposite hand, my Swashbuckler was able to routine shut down dangerous enemy mages like Concelhaut and Ancient Fampyrs by himself.

 

*Last Word: I am inclined to move this up from "B tier" to "A tier," for the same reason I liked Glacierbane so much. Namely, the ability to silence mages for 3 seconds on a critical hit is absolutely lethal - again, especially when combined with Glacierbane on the other hand.

 

*Duskfall: Like Last Word, I feel it needs to be moved up one spot - from "B tier" to "A tier." It has nothing jaw-dropping, but it has a lot of everything - speed boost, accuracy boosts, and penetration boost (albeit conditional - though easy to achieve).

 

The other choices - at least the ones I've used extensively - I tend to agree without the need for further additional commentary.


Edited by Lampros, 10 October 2018 - 12:15 PM.

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#54
Verde

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I'd add Bardatto's Luxury to A tier.

Immunity to Constitution afflictions and 10% chance to Sicken on hit is pretty nice, plus other benefits.

Edited by Verde, 10 October 2018 - 12:01 PM.

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#55
Haplok

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Grave Calling D Tier?

When I thought I have seen everything...

 

For me its clearly an "S" weapon.


Edited by Haplok, 11 October 2018 - 12:25 AM.

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