Paladin is love. Paladin is life.

[Malkoy]

That started as an answer to "the best girl tank"  thread here: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/104752-the-best-tank-in-the-game-herald-vs-crusader/, but grew in size to deserve its own topic.

 

I'd go as far as to say, that adding Goldpact Paladin class to your multi-class provides highest possible damage avoidance and mitigation combo from one class compared to absolutely anything else. +8 free all defenses (up to +15 with 1 point investment)? Yes please! +4 armor on demand? Sure thanks! Oh, here's another +1 armor on demand (aura) just in case you need it when you run out of zeal.
 
And just in case something vicious on PotD has enough ArPen to do more than 25% damage with their attacks late game, we give you infinite armor  edit:+3 Armor as long as you don't move. Please go ahead and pull enemies to you, using corners to gather them all together.
 
Now, if you play solo, you'd probably want to do damage:

 

Now that you got deflection and infinite armor, why not get some infinite resource pool to outlive your enemies while they wither: Sir Sit-a-Lot 

 

Oh, standing still for long periods of time bores you? Don't worry, you can stand still for less and do more damage with: The Faceless Dancer 

 

But what if I like Streetfighter more than Trickster? Answer is simple: Stop-N-Go

 

Want to have powerful ranged dps, tank hybrid monstrosity? With Paladin you can: The Holy Hand Grenadier

 

In conclusion I'd like to say that paladin class is severely broken compared to others. Of course it doesn't hand out insane buffs at zero cost (looking at your Streetfighter+Blunderbuss), but the fact that Paladins can do anything at least well (tank, heal, dps), leaves them with no almost downsides and hence severely ahead of other classes imho.

 

Downsides that are exclusive to this class are:

-RP attributable to sub-classes is a mess sometimes

-Weird stacking with priest deities

-Not an infinite resource pool (because they are not Cipher or Chanter)

-Small selection of de-buffs

-Not very mobile (not so noticeable and easily fixable with investment in +deflection on disengage)

 

Hel, who knows maybe after I'm done with my Solo+Berath's Challenge play-through, I'll go for Triple Crown+ Magran's Challenge with Sir Sit-a-Lot (summons, buffs, "everybody died? no problem, I'll clean up"), The Faceless Dancer (damage off tank), The Holy Hand Grenadier(main dps), Paladin/Druid(meaty healz), Paladin/Priest(more buffs)  dream team.

 

And just to make sure they don't accidentally die make them all Moon Godlike #teamBlueberries

Edited August 11, 2018 by Malkoy

[thundercleese]

Stoic Steel has a cap, I'm not sure how high but I believe somewhere around 4-5 +3 on a lvl 20 Herald Pallegina. Also the Goldpact armour only lasts for a certain amount of hits (certain amount of damage mitigated?). But yes, Paladins have the best passive defenses in the game.

Edited August 11, 2018 by thundercleese

[Boeroer]

Gilded Enmity lasts for 7 hits.

 

But since you can get a refund of zeal if you kill the sworn enemy, you usually can recast this very often.

 

Of course no Brand Enemy then.

[arkane83]

Gilded Enmity lasts for 7 hits.

 

But since you can get a refund of zeal if you kill the sworn enemy, you usually can recast this very often.

 

Of course no Brand Enemy then.

Pretty much this.

 

You do have to choose between infinite armor buffs and helping your DPS. My grenadier build went for the refund because flames of devotion and all the accuracy I was stacking really helped his DPS. The truth is I could have still taken brand enemy. I rarely touched empower and could have just used that for more zeal.

 

The grenadier is way weaker on potd because of armor being +2 across the board. You have to beeline for the ring of marksman and upgrading hand mortar to superb.

 

I don't find Paladin OP at all. Actually you trade a ton of whatever else you could have taken for that defense. A devoted/streetfighter who uses blunderbuss would potentially be stronger in PotD due to the pen. The same for a maurauder variant doing the same self flanking trick.

 

I think the real balance issue is that PotD very lamely increases enemy deflection and armor to such an extent that it pigeonholes you into certain subclasses when playing around with certain multis. For example, almost every fighter build generally goes devoted. Almost every barbarian is a zerker. PotD is about min maxing, but it does it in such a way that you really need certain subclasses.

 

So, while kinda strong, my grenadier is not OP. He hits some enemies like a wet noodle in PotD until you get certain gear. Paladin only gives you accuracy, but lacks anything to overcome pen. He plays like a ranged tank of sorts, so he pays for his survivability with a rough start to the game.

 

Edit: actually to be fair, once he gets his dots from rogue abilities in aoe, he doesn't care that much about armor on enemies. Still, he needs PL3 and PL4 skills to be good at what he does. AOE arterial and gouging are sick.

Edited August 11, 2018 by arkane83

[Dorftek]

Maxed out deep faith is OP aye, personal favourites are bleakwalker and kind wayfarer tho. Armour buffs are easy to come by and they do not stack, while u can never have enough lashes! Kind Wayfarer let's u spam heals while simultaneously dealing dmg and that can be very valuable.

[gkathellar]

Paladin is also kind of boring a lot of the time. Spam Flames of Devotion, pew pew

 

THATS RIGHT I SAID IT

[Malkoy]

 

Gilded Enmity lasts for 7 hits.

 

But since you can get a refund of zeal if you kill the sworn enemy, you usually can recast this very often.

 

Of course no Brand Enemy then.

Pretty much this.

 

You do have to choose between infinite armor buffs and helping your DPS. My grenadier build went for the refund because flames of devotion and all the accuracy I was stacking really helped his DPS. The truth is I could have still taken brand enemy. I rarely touched empower and could have just used that for more zeal.

 

The grenadier is way weaker on potd because of armor being +2 across the board. You have to beeline for the ring of marksman and upgrading hand mortar to superb.

 

I don't find Paladin OP at all. Actually you trade a ton of whatever else you could have taken for that defense. A devoted/streetfighter who uses blunderbuss would potentially be stronger in PotD due to the pen. The same for a maurauder variant doing the same self flanking trick.

 

I think the real balance issue is that PotD very lamely increases enemy deflection and armor to such an extent that it pigeonholes you into certain subclasses when playing around with certain multis. For example, almost every fighter build generally goes devoted. Almost every barbarian is a zerker. PotD is about min maxing, but it does it in such a way that you really need certain subclasses.

 

So, while kinda strong, my grenadier is not OP. He hits some enemies like a wet noodle in PotD until you get certain gear. Paladin only gives you accuracy, but lacks anything to overcome pen. He plays like a ranged tank of sorts, so he pays for his survivability with a rough start to the game.

 

Edit: actually to be fair, once he gets his dots from rogue abilities in aoe, he doesn't care that much about armor on enemies. Still, he needs PL3 and PL4 skills to be good at what he does. AOE arterial and gouging are sick.

 

 

I would not call them weak. I have comfortably went through PotD with in-game companions (no scaling) with almost exact  The Holy Hand Grenadier build ( I forgot to get marksman ring when I had a chance to also). I was not happy with my Xoti and Eder standing doing nothing most of the time, so I went for my first custom group walk-through with couple adjustments.

 

Due to the mortars targeting reflex instead of deflection, I went with one mortar only, one-handed style and 8 (no Berath) Dexterity, Max Perception, Int, rest couple points equally into resolve/might. Imho accuracy is better than ArPen for this build, since you can roll out so many Crits (and crits increase ArPen by 1.5 if I remember correctly). Also I feel like Streetfighters -50% recovery is huge enough boost, but with a sluggish animation on mortars 2nd weapon doesn't bring out that much more damage

 

If you have party to support this play-style, you can always go for Cipher (+1 ArPen, -2 armor debuff for tanky targets). But when I did that I regretted not having Pally's innate tankiness very often. Since this was my designated dps I reloaded every time she died.

 

EDIT: Rogues have +5 pen ranged attack for 2 guile with Strike the Bell. I only go for Confounding Blind+Crippling Strike(+2 ArPen for 1 Guile btw)+Strike the Bell,  then spam Devastating Blow if enemy group is at 30-40% hp (even with 2 armor difference it seems more worth it, since Devastating Blow hits like a truck).

 

So depending on how much ArPen you might need, go for Strike the Bell attacks or cheaper Crippling Strike.

 

Also Confounding Blind allows your team to crit and surpass Armor. In addition I usually have Wizards Expose Vulnerabilities or Chanter's Hel-Hyraf (-2 Armor) on tough enemies (Rusted, Iron, Steel Constructs, high level kith).

 

Also, I would really like to see the build that can dish out more dps than Streetfighter+Blunderbuss+<insert second class here>. I liked paladin the most because of lower downtime. DoC Breastplate and Gilded Enmity usually make enemy AI steer clear from you, so you don't have to preposition that often or self heal (not that it matters much with Escape)

 

 

Gilded Enmity lasts for 7 hits.

 

But since you can get a refund of zeal if you kill the sworn enemy, you usually can recast this very often.

 

Of course no Brand Enemy then.

 

That's why Goldpact is my favorite, you can have 85%-100% uptime on Gilded Enmity mid-late game with "Free Brands"  if you have sufficient single target damage (also always pick on squishies first).

 

 

One thing I forgot to mention is FoD, being amazing damage buff early game (accuracy, later +15% fire damage). The progression of the class is just so perfect: you get bonus defences (deflection, then armor) then your accuracy increases (FoD, then Aura), then you have self heals for when you make a mistake, and if you want it +40% damage buff for your team in short radius.

 

I will update this thread once I finish  Sir Sit-a-Lot walk through solo with Berath's challenge.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Malkoy