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I've been thinking a little about pale elves and checked the wikia. I remembered Glasvahl from the first game. He and his clan learned that they are trapped in a reincarnation cycle that forces them to be reborn in the same place over and over for millennia. Is this true to ALL of pale elves? (Yet again Rymrgand looks like a master torturer; promises an out from an endless cycle of misery that he created)

 

Also I have to retract what I said about the cult not being representative of general pale elf culture/religion/philosophy. I think that their overall worldview reflects the overall worldview of pale elves from WtW as a whole. Ydwin recognizes it. Harbingers also came from all over the WtW to join Vatnir. There was something universal in his vision he preached so yeah, my initial caution seems to be wrong in that matter. Main difference is in how they approach the inevitable ending; glamfellen outside of the cult don't run towards dragons to get killed.

Edited by handsomenat
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I had real concerns about quality after Obsidian revealed that they weren't going to put out full-blown expansion packs despite Backer community polling, but I enjoyed BoW and at this point I'm confident that between the three DLC I'll feel like my $20 season pass was worth it. That said, I would not part w/ the standard retail price of $10/DLC.

Some thoughts:
-Thank the gods for dismissal! Some other folks mentioned this too but the trash mobs are fairly tedious throughout the expansion.
-I enjoyed all three boss fights. After coasting through the game on PotD before the patch I feel like the difficulty is a lot more acceptable at this point, but it is still not quite hard enough, IMO -- "acceptable" difficulty in my purely subjective view would be like, me not being able to winging it through boss fights unprepared and having to reload once or twice. I liked that about the original POE. (I played on PotD with level-scaling).
-I like most of the items but imo there are a few //too// many ice-themed ones. I understand that the theme is Rymrgand,  I do, but would have appreciated items weighted a bit more towards say, the Blazing Bridge and the rest. The Soulbounds weren't generally as cool as in the White March...
-The lore reveals were a good touch and I appreciated that the story tied back into the series. 

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Am a bit late to the party, but just finished the DLC, and thought to chime in)

 

After reading reviews, I was worrying that "Beast of Winter" will be too short. It actually took 9 hours for me to complete. Still a bit shorter than WM1, but judging by the art, puzzles + scripted stuff, extra lore and VO, it likely took a comparable amount of development+qa+x time.

 

 

From story perspective, I liked most of it.

- It was nice to see Waidwen.

- Weird but interesting to watch Naxiva's victim/accuser duality (not to mention that Watcher was and inquisitor him/herself).

- Meeting Vatnir, who unexpectedly turned to be quite likeable.

- Getting more lore insights into the soul stuff

- and ofc Rymrgand admitting in plain text that being a jerk is his nature.

 

 

From difficulty pov, it was great. So far the hardest piece of content I have met in Deadfire. Special props to Burning Archers, whom my Helwalker fire priest hates like no other.

Perhaps, it was probably better to visit the place latter.

I've arrived and fought the Messenger at level 13 (upscalled PotD), Neriscyrlas at level 14, and Beast of Winter at level 15.

Messenger and Beast were easy. But Neriscyrlas has put a formidable fight.

Initially have persuaded him to fight Rymrgand, but was too curious how strong the dragon is, so had to reload.

And to be honest, only on 4th attempt have managed to bring him down.

 

- on 1st attempt, didn't expect that he will cast a second Safeguard, and ran out of resources

- on 2nd attempt, went for Arcane Dampener (which missed, grazed, missed) and Glacierbane/Last Word (which didn't crit enough).

- on 3rd attempt, went for interruptions... but didn't expect that the dragon gets 3 concentration for free when hitting 50% and 25%. So he still has pulled the Safeguard.

- on 4th attempt, decided: screw it. And went for battle axes on all damage dealers; and extra moonwell scrolls on healers.

 

 

 

From character-building impact pov, BoW is a bit underwhelming though. But that's only when taken in comparison with WM1, because:

- WM1 not only added a few items, but their "power level" was often stronger than that of vanilla items. Remember Bittercut, Golden Gaze, Stormcaller, Spelltongue, Redeemer, and so on.

- level cap was rised by 2, and new spells/abilities added to the game

- appearance of cross-class talents

- and ofc durgan enchants

 

 

All in all: it was a nice, creative and enjoyable DLC.

Edited by MaxQuest
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Definitely WM1 expanded more, but then there was more room for expansion, POE2 has a much higher baseline all around than 1 did. Real shame it doesn't increase the level cap though, but I'm happy enough with having soulbound stuff to level up

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I've been thinking a little about pale elves and checked the wikia. I remembered Glasvahl from the first game. He and his clan learned that they are trapped in a reincarnation cycle that forces them to be reborn in the same place over and over for millennia. Is this true to ALL of pale elves? (Yet again Rymrgand looks like a master torturer; promises an out from an endless cycle of misery that he created)

 

Also I have to retract what I said about the cult not being representative of general pale elf culture/religion/philosophy. I think that their overall worldview reflects the overall worldview of pale elves from WtW as a whole. Ydwin recognizes it. Harbingers also came from all over the WtW to join Vatnir. There was something universal in his vision he preached so yeah, my initial caution seems to be wrong in that matter. Main difference is in how they approach the inevitable ending; glamfellen outside of the cult don't run towards dragons to get killed.

 

My next pt will be with a pale elf, Vatnir and Ydwin. Can't wait. :)


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What I liked: 

 

- The St. Wiedwyn stuff. The part where his last thoughts before death were of his father and the resentment he held was pretty powerful. 

- The revelation that parts of Rymergand's realm is... well, it's Purgatory. This was a bit strange to encounter, but interesting. 

- Ice! Return to the frozen regions! Always brings me back to Icewind Dale, the very first DnD game I played. 

- The cult in the ice region is pretty cool. 

- Area layouts and designs were awesome.

- Ydwyn's pretty interesting, makes me wish she was a full companion. 

- Awesome looking items!

- Definately liked the return to more... medieval fantasy as a break from the 18th century pirating. NOT THAT  I DON'T FIND THAT FUN. I LOVE Deadfire's pirate adventure well enough, but this adds some nice diversity. 

 

What I didn't like: 

 

- The motivation is a bit muddy and not fully realized. I get that the expanding ice is supposed to be a threat, but like Eothas himself, it doesn't feel like that. No one in the Deadfire, least of all my Watcher, would have even noticed the problem had Vatnir not invited me over to dinner... 

- Rymergand seemed unable to destroy or disable the artifact before, and yet seems to be able to switch off its problem features in the end. What am I missing? 

- The dragon hints that her kin were enlisted by the gods to serve their will, which I thought meant the dragon we found under the Water Shapers guild, but there's no mention of him? 

- Awesome items are only awesome for heavy tank characters, not very diverse. 

- The story only makes Eothas seem like an even bigger dimwit than he has so far. I'm still utterly lost over why he marched the Raedcerans on a  crusade when he was supposedly trying to make people see the gods for what they are. More than that, why he marched Waidwyn into the Godhammer, or what that was supposed to accomplish. 

 

Over all; loved the expansion! Eagerly awaiting the next. 

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The dragon hints that her kin were enlisted by the gods to serve their will, which I thought meant the dragon we found under the Water Shapers guild, but there's no mention of him?

 

She's talking about the three dragon champions of Ukaizo who were merged into the mecha-guardian by the Engwithans.

 

 

The story only makes Eothas seem like an even bigger dimwit than he has so far. I'm still utterly lost over why he marched the Raedcerans on a  crusade when he was supposedly trying to make people see the gods for what they are. More than that, why he marched Waidwyn into the Godhammer, or what that was supposed to accomplish.

 

I've come to the conclusion that Eothas just isn't very good at planning, strategy or forethought in general.

Edited by Tarlonniel
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Eothas planned to expose the Engwithan machinery in the Dyrwood to back him up when he publicly revealed the origins of the gods. He needed an army because he'd be opposed by the Leaden Key, possibly the other gods (many of the machines were in the heart of Magran's territory) and the Glanfathan tribes.

 

He let the Godhammer happen because he'd realised that exposing the machines wouldn't necessarily convince people- faith is stronger than evidence. But if a god appeared to be killed by mortals, that might start to shake people's faith, which would kind of serve his ends.

 

E: it isn't clarified in the game, but I like to think his invasion of the Dyrwood was caused by getting wind of Thaos's plan to restore Woedica to power, and the less-than-perfect idea of exposing the Engwithan machines was in part due to him wanting to protect them from the Leaden Key- that's suggested in the first game as his whole motivation for invading. With POE2 in mind, I think the lengths Thaos was going to go to caused Eothas to consider how necessary it was to keep the secret- he has dialogue in Ashen Maw something like "either we've succeeded and we don't need to be secret any more, or we've failed and keeping the secret is pointless"

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Eothas planned to expose the Engwithan machinery in the Dyrwood to back him up when he publicly revealed the origins of the gods. He needed an army because he'd be opposed by the Leaden Key, possibly the other gods (many of the machines were in the heart of Magran's territory) and the Glanfathan tribes.

 

He let the Godhammer happen because he'd realised that exposing the machines wouldn't necessarily convince people- faith is stronger than evidence. But if a god appeared to be killed by mortals, that might start to shake people's faith, which would kind of serve his ends.

 

E: it isn't clarified in the game, but I like to think his invasion of the Dyrwood was caused by getting wind of Thaos's plan to restore Woedica to power, and the less-than-perfect idea of exposing the Engwithan machines was in part due to him wanting to protect them from the Leaden Key- that's suggested in the first game as his whole motivation for invading. With POE2 in mind, I think the lengths Thaos was going to go to caused Eothas to consider how necessary it was to keep the secret- he has dialogue in Ashen Maw something like "either we've succeeded and we don't need to be secret any more, or we've failed and keeping the secret is pointless"

 

The problem is though, that the information that is given in the lorebook of PoE I & 2, sets the event of prior to Saint's war, and the war itself, as a fanatical holy war campaign. Plus, wasn't it the dawnstars that visited Waidwen first? And not Eothas himself. According to BoW, it isn't so. Plus, Eothas says that Woedica's past in PoE II is made up. It's a bit messy tbh.

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The problem is though, that the information that is given in the lorebook of PoE I & 2, sets the event of prior to Saint's war, and the war itself, as a fanatical holy war campaign. Plus, wasn't it the dawnstars that visited Waidwen first? And not Eothas himself. According to BoW, it isn't so. Plus, Eothas says that Woedica's past in PoE II is made up. It's a bit messy tbh.

The lore books are written from an in-universe perspective and that of an outsider to boot. Beast of Winter gives us a chance to converse with the parties involved first hand and get a look at how it actually happened thanks to the Watcher gifts. It's not necessarily contradicting, you just have to realize that the stories told about events and the events themselves are not necessarily the same.

 

I mean, in a broader sense, the Pillars story is about identities and the factors that shape them. Engwithans imposed a new order, a new identity through their religion. This order lasted for a time, upheld by the Leaden Key and the structures of power that dominated them, but as humanity develops and wants to forge a new one, the gods struggle to reconcile humanity slowly learning to exist without them and their own centuries-old identity as divine beings essential to the world.

 

So Eothas wants to force the gods and mortals to reconsider and reevaluate their role in the grand scheme of things. He wants to give them the tools to build a new identity, but realizes that he is still clinging to the old notions of godhood and relationship with humanity, so he allows himself to be (apparently) killed, creating a new myth.

 

I'm kind of rambling here, I need to refine this thought.

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[ The Vault ] [ The Wasteland Wiki ] [ Pillars of Eternity Wiki ] [ Tyranny Wiki ]


 


My, that's a whole lot of wikis!


Why, thank you, I love them.

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The problem is though, that the information that is given in the lorebook of PoE I & 2, sets the event of prior to Saint's war, and the war itself, as a fanatical holy war campaign. Plus, wasn't it the dawnstars that visited Waidwen first? And not Eothas himself. According to BoW, it isn't so. Plus, Eothas says that Woedica's past in PoE II is made up. It's a bit messy tbh.

The lore books are written from an in-universe perspective and that of an outsider to boot. Beast of Winter gives us a chance to converse with the parties involved first hand and get a look at how it actually happened thanks to the Watcher gifts. It's not necessarily contradicting, you just have to realize that the stories told about events and the events themselves are not necessarily the same.

 

I mean, in a broader sense, the Pillars story is about identities and the factors that shape them. Engwithans imposed a new order, a new identity through their religion. This order lasted for a time, upheld by the Leaden Key and the structures of power that dominated them, but as humanity develops and wants to forge a new one, the gods struggle to reconcile humanity slowly learning to exist without them and their own centuries-old identity as divine beings essential to the world.

 

So Eothas wants to force the gods and mortals to reconsider and reevaluate their role in the grand scheme of things. He wants to give them the tools to build a new identity, but realizes that he is still clinging to the old notions of godhood and relationship with humanity, so he allows himself to be (apparently) killed, creating a new myth.

 

I'm kind of rambling here, I need to refine this thought.

 

 

I guess that is one interpretation, but you could easily just say that this is a clear retcon. 

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I guess that is one interpretation, but you could easily just say that this is a clear retcon.

 

Maybe, though I've always got the distinct impression that the PoE lore books were purposefully written to avoid spoiling in-game plot twists. It seems to me like the choice to write based on what the people of Eora know or believe is pretty deliberate, and what they know or believe isn't necessarily the whole truth, or even true at all.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Maybe, though I've always got the distinct impression that the PoE lore books were purposefully written to avoid spoiling in-game plot twists. It seems to me like the choice to write based on what the people of Eora know or believe is pretty deliberate, and what they know or believe isn't necessarily the whole truth, or even true at all.

 

Who knows how many books were written by the Leaden Key.

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I'm rather late to the party, but I've just started playing BoW, and even though I like the setup, so far I'm also really disappointed with the lack of reaction to a pale elf Watcher from the White that Wends. Like, any reaction at all. It also feels extremely weird to have Ydwin lecture me on the pale elf theology and culture when my own character is a bloody priest (AND a theologist, which was one of the Mystic background options in the first game, so there is an extra lol factor). There is a couple of high religion checks that can help you bypass at least some of this weirdness, but I never invested much into religion because in the base game it was always interchangeable with priest dialogue options, so I eventually decided to spend those points on more useful skills. 

 

After having so many various reaction to classes, backgrounds and races in the base game this is really surprising. At the very least there should have been some reaction to the pale elf Watchers.

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I'm rather late to the party, but I've just started playing BoW, and even though I like the setup, so far I'm also really disappointed with the lack of reaction to a pale elf Watcher from the White that Wends. Like, any reaction at all. It also feels extremely weird to have Ydwin lecture me on the pale elf theology and culture when my own character is a bloody priest (AND a theologist, which was one of the Mystic background options in the first game, so there is an extra lol factor). There is a couple of high religion checks that can help you bypass at least some of this weirdness, but I never invested much into religion because in the base game it was always interchangeable with priest dialogue options, so I eventually decided to spend those points on more useful skills. 

 

After having so many various reaction to classes, backgrounds and races in the base game this is really surprising. At the very least there should have been some reaction to the pale elf Watchers.

 

This is bad. My next character is a pale elf. I was considering changing the background from Mystic to Hunter and now I'm sure I'll do it, to avoid part of the weirdness.


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This is bad. My next character is a pale elf. I was considering changing the background from Mystic to Hunter and now I'm sure I'll do it, to avoid part of the weirdness.

 

To be fair, I'm only, like, 1/4 way through the story. Maybe it gets better (but I'll be surprised if it does, judging from the lack of reaction in the beginning). If it stays this way, I guess I'm just going to think that my priest of Wael elf is trolling everyone by pretending not to know jack about her own people, or something. 

 

I still kicked Ydwin out to minimize the lecturing though. It feels like they invested a lot of effort to flesh her out, but forgot about the Watchers who have a similar background in the process. 

Edited by Yria

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If it stays this way, I guess I'm just going to think that my priest of Wael elf is trolling everyone by pretending not to know jack about her own people, or something.

 

Well, at least my Mystic/Hunter was an isolationist. So I can pretend some ignorance.


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I'm rather late to the party, but I've just started playing BoW, and even though I like the setup, so far I'm also really disappointed with the lack of reaction to a pale elf Watcher from the White that Wends. Like, any reaction at all. It also feels extremely weird to have Ydwin lecture me on the pale elf theology and culture when my own character is a bloody priest (AND a theologist, which was one of the Mystic background options in the first game, so there is an extra lol factor).

 

ydwinsplaining. talk down to me, sensei. tell me things i already know. drink my blood etc.


I AM A RENISANCE MAN

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The last fight against Nericyslas was superb.

 

I liked a lot the scenary of the death of Saint Waidwen.

 

I liked too the new weapons.

 

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I don't remember my pale elf missing anything much; the stuff my character didn't seem to know about was all the White, where my character isn't from. There was one point where I asked someone "what do pale elves think of wood elves?" and they said "well you're a pale elf, what do you think?" Aloth wasn't as appreciative as he could have been when I said he was OK

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Happy Friday!

 

Which, honestly, is kinda lame. :\  It should be possible, maybe even logical, for Vatnir to come back to Harbinger's Watch when all is said and done and lead his people with his new found wisdom and experience.  Okay, I get the point about "these guys are a bunch of religious fanatics and left to their own devices, the best thing really is for them to pack up and go home."

 

But, like I said, kinda lame that recruiting a character you're supposed to be able to recruit locks out what might be the best ending for an area. In fact, on my speed run test, I'm never told what happens to Vatnir.  Which, since he's a sidekick, fair enough.   OTOH, you do find out what happens when you boot him out of your party at the end of the DLC, which is a little odd.

 

All in all, not lame enough to be annoying (especially as it's literally changing one inconsequential game variable)... But, yeah, slightly lame.

 

From my perspective, Harbingers' Watch is something of a doomed endeavor. Which I think they'd agree with and be entirely comfortable with. That it can occasionally end up in a not completely terrible situation is in part due to the Watcher's (possible) and Vatnir's (possible) influence.

 

The player can leave Vatnir behind in HW after taking him into the void, but that doesn't mean he's content to stay there. His experience at the Watcher's side broadens his perspective, and he's not willing to sit around leading a community whose goals he doesn't really believe in.

 

 

Also to respond to some of your points from your previous post about endings I agree that it is kinda disappointing how we don't learn about Vatnir's fate unless he's killed by the cult. As for him going back to the cult once everything's over... Would he still want that? (I don't know, that's why I'm asking. But my feeling is that he wants to leave this place. I might be wrong).

 

D2DZXsK.png

 

 

Vatnir should, barring bugs, have the following possible endslides:

 

1&2. Vatnir is never recruited. (Tied to Harbingers' Watch)

3. The Watcher convinces Hafjorn that Vatnir is a fraud and he flees the community.

4. The Watcher recruits Vatnir for Beast of Winter but then leaves him at Harbingers' Watch in the end.

 

Uhh... didn't one of the developers say that Eder was written in parts by three different writers in Deadfire? I don't really like how Eder is characterized in the sequel so maybe it's due to that. Or maybe it's a standard practice and usually works out? Anyway yeah it's disappointing how Eder was handled in this game, playing straight his low int and throwing in love for animals as a flavor so we still recognize the guy. There has been a topic here on the forum about him already so I'm not sure if we should discuss this further here...? But I just wanted to say that I agree with your points. Some people were perfectly fine with how Eder felt in this game too so I think it always feels so... validating when you find you're not the only one.

 

For the base game, Eric Fenstermaker wrote most of Edér. Josh filled in the missing bits. For BoW, it was Josh and Paul.

 

This is accurate. Fenstermaker also contributed to some of his lines in Seeker, Slayer, Survivor. I've done the other writing on him in Seeker, Slayer, Survivor and Forgotten Sanctum.

 

Note that Eric was Eder's writer on the original Pillars (as well as narrative lead on that game).

 

I think there's a few valuable things that can be taken from this. One is that this is a collaborative medium, even within individual characters, and it gets real muddy real fast when you start assigning praise and blame for things on specific designers. Another is that changes in Eder between Pillars 1 and Pillars 2 were not the result of the designer focused on him changing.

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I've been thinking a little about pale elves and checked the wikia. I remembered Glasvahl from the first game. He and his clan learned that they are trapped in a reincarnation cycle that forces them to be reborn in the same place over and over for millennia. Is this true to ALL of pale elves? (Yet again Rymrgand looks like a master torturer; promises an out from an endless cycle of misery that he created)

 

This is NOT true of all Pale Elves.

 

As for Rymrgand... well, the gods tend to be pretty selfish.

 

 

- Rymergand seemed unable to destroy or disable the artifact before, and yet seems to be able to switch off its problem features in the end. What am I missing? 

 

What Rymrgand cleanses the artifact of is Neriscyrlas's ties to it.

 

It's got other issues... and it's those other issues that allowed Neriscyrlas to take advantage of it as she did in the first place.

 

 

 

The story only makes Eothas seem like an even bigger dimwit than he has so far. I'm still utterly lost over why he marched the Raedcerans on a  crusade when he was supposedly trying to make people see the gods for what they are. More than that, why he marched Waidwyn into the Godhammer, or what that was supposed to accomplish.

 

I've come to the conclusion that Eothas just isn't very good at planning, strategy or forethought in general.

 

 

I think this is a fair(ish) assessment. I don't know if Josh would agree with me on this, but I think that Eothas's optimism sometimes blinds him, especially with regard to what his fellow deities are capable of.

 

 

 

The problem is though, that the information that is given in the lorebook of PoE I & 2, sets the event of prior to Saint's war, and the war itself, as a fanatical holy war campaign. Plus, wasn't it the dawnstars that visited Waidwen first? And not Eothas himself. According to BoW, it isn't so. Plus, Eothas says that Woedica's past in PoE II is made up. It's a bit messy tbh.

The lore books are written from an in-universe perspective and that of an outsider to boot. Beast of Winter gives us a chance to converse with the parties involved first hand and get a look at how it actually happened thanks to the Watcher gifts. It's not necessarily contradicting, you just have to realize that the stories told about events and the events themselves are not necessarily the same.

 

 

Keep in mind that what the player sees in the White Void is also filtered, albeit to the primary source of (a thrice-traumatized) Waidwen. The Bridge Ablaze is a reflection of Waidwen's experience, not the objective and unvarnished truth.

 

 

I don't remember my pale elf missing anything much; the stuff my character didn't seem to know about was all the White, where my character isn't from. There was one point where I asked someone "what do pale elves think of wood elves?" and they said "well you're a pale elf, what do you think?" Aloth wasn't as appreciative as he could have been when I said he was OK

 

I'm glad you enjoyed that! 

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This is bad. My next character is a pale elf. I was considering changing the background from Mystic to Hunter and now I'm sure I'll do it, to avoid part of the weirdness.

 

To be fair, I'm only, like, 1/4 way through the story. Maybe it gets better (but I'll be surprised if it does, judging from the lack of reaction in the beginning). If it stays this way, I guess I'm just going to think that my priest of Wael elf is trolling everyone by pretending not to know jack about her own people, or something. 

 

I still kicked Ydwin out to minimize the lecturing though. It feels like they invested a lot of effort to flesh her out, but forgot about the Watchers who have a similar background in the process. 

 

 

Priest + Mystic from the White that Wends or no, the player is never a Priest of Rymrgand. They always have the option to ask about Rymrgand worship. And Ydwin's an extremely biased (despite (because of?) her Scientist background) source of information on both the White and on the faith. 

 

Ydwin, Vatnir, and Rynhaedr are all pale elves of the White that Wends who were raised within communities of Rymrgand fanatics, and each has a dramatically different take on what it means to be of the Glamfellen, of the Land, or a follower of the tenets of Rymrgand. And to expand that further, look at the different relationships that the sisters Brythe and Ehrys have to the faith and the culture. 

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Just a side note:  Thank you for being such an active and responsive member of the forums here, Alex!  It's really cool to hear your perspective on lore, writing, etc. as someone that's more involved in the process, and you're pretty open to questions and cool about various opinions.

 

 

 

The problem is though, that the information that is given in the lorebook of PoE I & 2, sets the event of prior to Saint's war, and the war itself, as a fanatical holy war campaign. Plus, wasn't it the dawnstars that visited Waidwen first? And not Eothas himself. According to BoW, it isn't so. Plus, Eothas says that Woedica's past in PoE II is made up. It's a bit messy tbh.


The lore books are written from an in-universe perspective and that of an outsider to boot. Beast of Winter gives us a chance to converse with the parties involved first hand and get a look at how it actually happened thanks to the Watcher gifts. It's not necessarily contradicting, you just have to realize that the stories told about events and the events themselves are not necessarily the same.

I mean, in a broader sense, the Pillars story is about identities and the factors that shape them. Engwithans imposed a new order, a new identity through their religion. This order lasted for a time, upheld by the Leaden Key and the structures of power that dominated them, but as humanity develops and wants to forge a new one, the gods struggle to reconcile humanity slowly learning to exist without them and their own centuries-old identity as divine beings essential to the world.

So Eothas wants to force the gods and mortals to reconsider and reevaluate their role in the grand scheme of things. He wants to give them the tools to build a new identity, but realizes that he is still clinging to the old notions of godhood and relationship with humanity, so he allows himself to be (apparently) killed, creating a new myth.

I'm kind of rambling here, I need to refine this thought.

 

 

Those are really great points.  A large part of what we know comes from subjective sources and perspectives, including the lore books in the universe (that's part of why I like the books in the game), and a lot of themes stem from the stories people and cultures are told or tell.

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