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Matteo89.b

The core of the problem: you are a pirate

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“It is undeniable that this PoE2 wants, urges you to be a pirate.”

 

This statement is false. I have put 150 hours into PoE2 and have at no point felt that the game was encouraging me towards piracy. You seem to be conflating being the captain of a fantasy 16th century ship as automatically being a pirate.

Edited by Bionick

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Giving your crew rum does not make them pirates. The British Navy would ply their crew with rum, they actually had a rum ration, and calling them pirates would get you swinging from the gallows. They even supposedly used a barrel of rum to keep Admiral Nelson's body preserved. Most crews pirate or not drank while at sea because ship life was hard and it was the only thing to do.

 

The crew at no point pressures you to pillage for treasure. Singing sea shanties (I'm guessing that is what you mean by behaving like pirates?) was done by all crews. It sounds more like you think being a sailor of the period automatically makes you a pirate??! 

 

As for the caribbean setting, you entered the game knowing the setting and complaining about it is like complaining about Skyrim including Norse stuff or that it isn't sci-fi...

Ahh, yes "Tapping the Admiral", a slightly apocryphal, yet strangely appealing, aspect to Nelson being a pickle was that the sailors would find ways of getting at the rum in the burial cask. The body must have been none to fresh when they eventually arrived.

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I think the core of the problem is that we all seem to have different ideas about what a pirate actually is/does.

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Well, since a majority of people seems to have a different opinion, i have to think that maybe i played and felt the game in a bad way.

 

Maybe i unconsciously tought that being a pirate was unavoidable? Who knows.

 

But i'm lucky that now i have 2 weeks of holiday from work. I will try in these days to play again and see if you can actually avoid being a pirate.

 

And if, like you all are saying, it is true, i will write that in this topic. Without a problem.

 

 

Sorry if I came over as supergrumpy - I didn't mean to. But I wasn't happy about it either.

 

People are allowed to have different opinions. I respect that, but i admit that i become supergrumpy too, when others tells me that i'm ranting or flamebaiting, and such.

 

On the net being polite is such a difficult thing, a lot of people talk to others as if they are friends hanging around in a bar...

I would just like to wish you good luck on your non-pirate adventure. It seems to be possible to have one even in Deadfire. I guess one argument would be - why would you want one :yes:

 

Good roleplaying games will alway have the temptation to do bad things, the real challenge is constructing a game that accurately conveys what a bastard you are for stealing everything that isn't nailed down.

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I think the core of the problem is that we all seem to have different ideas about what a pirate actually is/does.

Especially in a world with Privateers.

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I have to agree with OP in that even though you are not forced to be a pirate, I feel a great push to be a pirate as well. However, a lot of comments in this thread helped me to realize that a lot of things I associate with being a pirate was hisorically actually more tied to being a sailor in general.

 

That being said, I'm wondering why there is such a great push towards piracy in a lot of rpgs with a setting involving pirates. Thinking of the Risen games, the pathfinder adventure path 'Skulls & Shackles' as well as Deadfire, supporting piracy feels much more fleshed out and encouraged than being against it. While I haven't played it, I imagine the Assassins Creed pirate game to be very similiar in this regard.

 

I'd actually much prefer to play in some kind of organization like the navy whose goal it is to end piracy, but this seems to be much less popular somehow. To be fair, I only played halfway through Deadfire before it went into hiatus until more patches / dlcs are released, and I didn't get to do a lot of the factions quests yet.

 

Not sure about Risen, but romantisation of obvious evil is an old tradition of many media. From Mafia to vampires - murders and blood sucking parasites suddenly become a "tragic figures with just interesting life". At a time of active piracy the very word "pirate" was a heavy insult, like a "bandit" (which is surprisingly still holding some merits of evilness). Now it's a compliment.

 

I, personally, would love for Rautai and Huana be more anty-Principi. Ok, even more. After all, that is the biggest and immediate threat. But they concentrate more on Valiant Company.

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Not sure about Risen, but romantisation of obvious evil is an old tradition of many media. From Mafia to vampires - murders and blood sucking parasites suddenly become a "tragic figures with just interesting life". At a time of active piracy the very word "pirate" was a heavy insult, like a "bandit" (which is surprisingly still holding some merits of evilness). Now it's a compliment.

 

I, personally, would love for Rautai and Huana be more anty-Principi. Ok, even more. After all, that is the biggest and immediate threat. But they concentrate more on Valiant Company.

 

 

Makes sense. They're not some comic book shiny superheroes here to battle The Evil, they're quite realistic powers with political, economical and social interests, and the first thing those do is try kill competition -- like Vailians. Marauders like Principi are actually more useful alive and operating  -- as a leverage, an excuse to invade, a bogeymen for the masses, etc. 

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I've skimmed the last couple of pages. Two things :

 

1) My apologies ahead of time if people keep responding to just your first post. It sounds like you've kept an open mind and conceded or considered other points, so that's not super fun.

 

2) Glancing at one of your recent posts, I think it's true that Obsidian really encourages you to check that stuff out. They show you all the mechanics and start you off with a crew and throw in Serafen and Furrante to get you involved in Principi politics. So I could see how it *feels* like they're pushing you to be a pirate. I think the *intent* was just meant as, "Look at all this cool stuff you can do!" and also show that the pirate thing was actually an option.

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"I'm not a pirate!"    - Watcher of Caed Nua in Port Maje

 

 

 

I'm a little confused as to how the things you described make you a pirate.

Sailors are generally rowdy, and many navies throughout history gave rum as rations. This isn't a pirate trait.

Historically the line between pirate and navy was often little more than "one is sanctioned by a government and one is not."

Have you ever heard of impressment? It was a practice by various (decidedly non-pirate) navies of storming ships, finding an excuse, and then effectively taking sailors from other countries as slaves to man their ships. The British impressed so many american sailors that it was a major cause of the war of 1812.

My point being that doing things of questionable morality does not make one a pirate. Nor did i feel as if Obsidian forced my character to even do things of questionable morality.

Ain't that called privateering?

Edited by Vaneglorious
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"I'm not a pirate!" - Watcher of Caed Nua in Port Maje

 

 

 

I'm a little confused as to how the things you described make you a pirate.

 

Sailors are generally rowdy, and many navies throughout history gave rum as rations. This isn't a pirate trait.

 

Historically the line between pirate and navy was often little more than "one is sanctioned by a government and one is not."

 

Have you ever heard of impressment? It was a practice by various (decidedly non-pirate) navies of storming ships, finding an excuse, and then effectively taking sailors from other countries as slaves to man their ships. The British impressed so many american sailors that it was a major cause of the war of 1812.

 

My point being that doing things of questionable morality does not make one a pirate. Nor did i feel as if Obsidian forced my character to even do things of questionable morality.

Ain't that called privateering?

The sanctioned by the government part? I guess I wasn't super specific. Privateers were private ship captains (often pirates) that were given a Letter of Marquee by a government to engage in wars on the government's behalf.

 

What I meant in my post was that the difference between pirates and naval ships often came down to one being part of the military and one not - their actual actions at sea didn't particularly differ much depending on the era. Naval ships looted, enslaved (or "impressed" as they called it), drank rum, etc. They just did those things with an official seal of approval.

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One thing is sure.

 

At near endgame, it will be a great pleasure showing my true colours.

 

I mean, now as now because of PoTD and enemy high level, i'm forced to use various different flags to avoid battles.

 

But in the end, when i'm of a high enough level, i will surely hunt all the pirate ships on the sea.

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One thing is sure.

 

At near endgame, it will be a great pleasure showing my true colours.

 

I mean, now as now because of PoTD and enemy high level, i'm forced to use various different flags to avoid battles.

 

But in the end, when i'm of a high enough level, i will surely hunt all the pirate ships on the sea.

 

should be opposite.  ship-to-ship combat, sans boarding, utter ignores potd difficulty adjustments.  as soon as you finish port maje you are able to acquire a ship and "hunt all the pirates on the sea" w/o player level or potd affecting such combats.  from a pure practical pov, hunt pirates should be the First thing you do after acquiring a ship as 'posed to waiting to level.  hunt pirates provides a starting player extra levels, superior equipment and a bit o' extra 1007. hunt pirates at end o' game when you are at or near max level and already have endgame gear is, from a pure practical pov, wasteful. level 6 player in a dhow with imperial long guns and/or double bronzers is no less capable o' pirate hunting than a level 18 player with same ship and canons, so why wait to level 18? is one ship (two ships with BoW installed) which needs better than a dhow to be easily sunk by a low-level player, so get to the killing asap. 

 

aside: we do recommend doing a single quest which to lower your ship purchase costs before engaging in an all out war 'gainst the pirates o' the deadfire, but if such metagame offends, then be knowing the potential 10% discount is hardly a dispositive factor in ending the pirate infestation in local waters.

 

is much misunderstanding regarding the practicalities o' ship combat even after months past release.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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One thing is sure.

 

At near endgame, it will be a great pleasure showing my true colours.

 

I mean, now as now because of PoTD and enemy high level, i'm forced to use various different flags to avoid battles.

 

But in the end, when i'm of a high enough level, i will surely hunt all the pirate ships on the sea.

 

should be opposite.  ship-to-ship combat, sans boarding, utter ignores potd difficulty adjustments. 

 

 

Ship-to-ship combat for me is way more simple.

 

I go foward until my ship crash against the enemy ship.

 

Then i enjoy a good old fight men vs men.

 

Swords vs swords, guns vs guns.

 

Already conquered 2 pirate ships this way.

 

Why waste time with cannons when my party can eviscerate each one of them in a melee fight?

 

And PoTD makes this even more entertaining.

 

 

Oh, if it could be of some interest. My party is :

 

1- barbarian / ranger. Used as an archer.

 

2- Paladin / Warrior. Used mainly as a tank but also a nice damage dealer

 

3- Eder. Tank. Can't do damage, but it is helpful to keep enemy melee fighters busy.

 

4- Warrior / Monk. The " if you target my archer or druid, i punish you" sort of tactical unit. Useful to kill ranged annoying enemyes

 

5- Druid. Cat-form, Moon Godlike, focused on healing the party. Main healer, but her 2 guns + high perception make her dangerous and entertaining to play.

 

The irony of a druid that uses fireweapons...

Edited by Matteo89.b

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Why waste time with cannons when my party can eviscerate each one of them in a melee fight?

 

 

 

the "why" were the whole point o' the previous post.  you need to wait 'til endgame to succeed at boarding and by then the rewards are negligible. do ship-to-ship as soon as you leave port maje and you will not only gain numerous levels but you will gain superior gear and a bit o' money too.  ship-to-ship ignores player level and it also ignores potd difficulty adjustments.  by doing ship-to-ship, a low-level player will reap rewards for defeating late game challenges, but will be doing so immediate after port maje. 

 

*shrug*

 

you like the squad-based tactical combat o' boarding actions? fine.  after all, is a perfect reasonable choice to make entertainment a prime factor when playing a game. however, the "why" benefits o' ship-to-ship combat should be obvious at this point.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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I'd also say you "waste" less time with doing ship-to-ship combat than with boarding. Especially with an upgraded big ship like junk or galleon and fully equipped gunports and developed cannoneers. I usually win after two jibes (depends on the enemy vessel of course). With double bronzers sometimes one salvo is enough. You can't do a boarding fight that fast - even if the enemy ship is only manned by a Beckoner's skeletons. ;)

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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I think the difficulty of ship combat/boarding is off topic for this thread (all I will say is I found it enjoyable, and quite easy to win at both).

 

The idea of a "prize share" where the British Royal Navy would share out the proceeds from captured enemy vessels amongst the crew lasted well into the 19th century, as did the practice of press ganging (which wasn't limited to foregners, it was a known hazard of living in any British port city). So the only real difference between the navy and the pirates was once was state sponsored and the other was independent. Privateers where basically mercenaries - state employed pirates.

 

But you don't even need to be a privateer in Deadfire, you can complete the game without ever attacking another ship. 


Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!

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I felt the same way as this about the Caed Nua keep in PoE 1. I've recently started a run as a Kind Wayfarer where I'm roleplaying that I have no interest in owning a keep, instead preferring to wander and explore the land trying to find out why I'm having visions of dead people and helping as many people as I can with their problems along the way.

 

When the Doemenals recently attacked my keep, I said to myself "Great, they can have it! Maybe it'll keep them busy and out of my hair. Let *them* deal with all the monsters coming up from the basement."

 

I haven't bought or played PoE2 yet (I'm waiting for them to stabilize it a bit more), but I would expect something similar with the ship situation. From what I'm hearing, I'll need it to get around, and I'll have to do the bare minimum to keep the crew happy enough to keep providing transportation, but I'm not hearing that I'll actually be *forced* to do too much with it. At least I hope that's the case, as I expect to be about as disinterested in the ship adventures as I am with the keep. 

 

At least with PoE 1, I've gotten the impression that Obsidian designs way more content into their games than is meant to be played in one run with one character. I think maybe they expect you to choose to do some things to the exclusion of other things. But I also understand how that can be a sticking point to completionist players who become stressed if they feel like they're skipping or missing out on content.

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I think the difficulty of ship combat/boarding is off topic for this thread (all I will say is I found it enjoyable, and quite easy to win at both).

 

 

disagree.

 

the genesis poster o' the thread lamented how developers forced a player into piracy and later in thread the same poster observed how at endgame levels, he/she would eliminate the pirate scourge in the deadfire.

 

wait 'til endgame to eliminate pirates when is possible to do so earlier reveals hypocrisy o' the initial moral quandary. for all those reasons already described, ship-to-chip combat in a potd game allows a prospective pirate hunter to eliminate the threat o' piracy much earlier (weeks, if not months 'ccording to game calender) than would be possible with boarding actions. if there is a moral component to the ship combat mini-game, and the player avoids ship-to-ship combat which would allow for a quicker elimination o' the piracy evil for no other reason than entertainment value, is not the player indulging in moral bankrupt behavior?  answer is clearly a yes. as such, assuming as a given the proposition o' the evil o' piracy, then am gonna suggest the moral player must consider and implement methods which is in their power to be bringing 'bout a quicker end to piracy.

 

as such, in the context o' the present thread, it is not only proper but imperative to discuss difficulty o' ship combat.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Boarding a ship while the deliberately off-tuned 'The Farmer and The Fox' is playing in the back-ground is better in my book than clicking lines of text  :biggrin: . Still, I don't go out of my way to do naval combat. 

 

But to each their own... btw, this thread still going on?

Edited by Hulk'O'Saurus

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I'm still testing.

 

So, for me surely is still going on.

 

Just don't overdo it, dude :D.

 

Ultimately, if you feel it's too piratty, you can always drop it. 


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As stated many times already, there is nothing forcing you to be a pirate. In fact my Watcher would best be described as the Scourge of all Pirates. Like seriously there are a lot of dead pirates around deadfire now.

 

That said, I'm not a big fan of the setting. I did NOT enjoy having to sail around everywhere, constantly engaging in the "ship warfare" mini-game, and the overall game play this offered. I prefer a more classic medieval world, but that's just me. All that said, I knew exactly what kind of world I was entering when I bought POE2. It wasn't exactly a secret.

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