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Matteo89.b

The core of the problem: you are a pirate

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I'm a little confused as to how the things you described make you a pirate.

 

Sailors are generally rowdy, and many navies throughout history gave rum as rations. This isn't a pirate trait.

 

Historically the line between pirate and navy was often little more than "one is sanctioned by a government and one is not."

 

Have you ever heard of impressment? It was a practice by various (decidedly non-pirate) navies of storming ships, finding an excuse, and then effectively taking sailors from other countries as slaves to man their ships. The British impressed so many american sailors that it was a major cause of the war of 1812.

 

My point being that doing things of questionable morality does not make one a pirate. Nor did i feel as if Obsidian forced my character to even do things of questionable morality.

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Mah. It's not jumping to conclusions. It's discussing and learning by understanding different view points.

 

Think about me. I have an opinion, a bad one.

 

But if you are right, something that i'm going to test in these days, i will learn to appreciate a game that until now...i considered (and still do, for now) a disappointment.

 

In short, this thread could lead me to appreciate a game i backed and could lead me to buy other Obsidian games in the future.

 

That's the beauty of dialogue and sharing opinions.

Edited by Matteo89.b
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Mah. It's not jumping to conclusions. It's discussing and learning by understanding different view points.

 

Think about me. I have an opinion, a bad one.

 

But if you are right, something that i'm going to test in these days, i will learn to appreciate a game that until now...i considered (and still do, for now) a disappointment.

 

In short, this thread could lead me to appreciate a game i backed and could lead me to buy other Obsidian games in the future.

 

That's the beauty of dialogue and sharing opinions.

 

Aside from maybe writing your OP without having played enough of the game, you've actually been pretty reasonable in genuinely listening to others' feedback and keeping an open mind. Hopefully your second approach to the game provides a better experience.

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Being a pirate is purely optional, Eld Engrim is a god fearing man who likes the drink, probably more than he should. He's no pirate, and none of the other starting crew are pirates really, more a ragtag band of misfits. You can even avoid fighting against most pirates, if you don't want to fight pirates, just fly a Principi flag after you defeat one. Alternately, acquire a flag from Derio The Lean, although you'd be doing a quest for the Principi at that point.

 

Piracy is really sorely lacking in PoE2:Deadfire since you can only burn ships to the waterline, and not send over a prize-crew and take them to a port to sell. That said, there are no factions that care in any demonstrable way about piracy, you can complete every Bounty in the game for every faction in the game. This was a design choice, sort of like Bethesda letting you ascend to lead pretty much every guild in Skyrim at once. No one ever says "We've got reports of you attacking _______" or anything along these lines, ever. Even so, the lack of repercussions for an action doesn't mean you're being forced into that action even if it's wildly profitable. It's like stealing in a Bethesda game, I do it on pretty much every character because it's wildly profitable and there aren't a lot of down sides to it but that isn't the game encouraging me to be a thief. It's just the minmaxer in me who says "Hey, I know where we can get some sweet loot if we can be stealthy!" and since you're not saying PoE2:Deadfire makes you play as a thief I assume that you didn't feel pressured to steal things that weren't nailed down here.

 

Maybe you're right, and at some level you had presupposed that you would inevitably be a pirate, and it shaped your experiences. In every single ship combat you can turn tail and run if you want, you're never forced to attack ships that aren't hostile or even fight the ones that are (and as I said, with a Principi flag even the pirates will leave you alone.) At no point that I recall, having played through the game 4X (I have 4 level 20s anyway, a level 19, an 11, and a 9 I've been playing since my 11 and every other preexisting character got glitched out and can't participate in Beast of Winter content) when the crew encourages me to be a pirate aboard my ship. I do recall some shenanigans in an alleyway, but given that piracy is specifically a seagoing affair I'd call that skulduggery. 

 

You are approached by a Principi in Nekataka, but you can ignore him. You are told to seek retribution on a pirate, but you could ignore that, or you could kill every pirate in the place instead of engaging in any of the more thoughtful quest design at that location. I've never felt like I was being forced into any particular action by my crew, they certainly didn't like me going aboard plagueships or whatever crazy notions I had. In most of my games I kept the crew from Port Maje the entire game, adding a few characters I found in my voyages.

 

I feel like a far more valid complaint about PoE2:Deadfire is that the piracy aspect of the game is fairly shallow, actually playing a pirate means you can kill every named ship in the Deadfire and there just aren't many randomized enemies for you to take. I'd love to see some bit of DLC or a patch that made a Valian Adra Train which necessitated several chained ship battles to capture. I'd also like a trading minigame, a new classification of goods as "trade goods" which had no purpose other than being bought and sold at ports for profit, so there was something besides piracy that you could do with your boat to make money. It takes a lot of effort to do a responsive economy, but a list of ports and the prices they offer is much less complex and never changes due to your influence. I can see why it wasn't a priority, but I feel like it would add at least a little of that feeling of "Wow, what a great haul!" to piracy that is missing now and could potentially explain why so many people are seeking their fortune in the Deadfire. Maybe all of this is just due to me thinking that a new merchant ship in the Deck of Many Things DLC meant a new ship for the players to acquire, suited to being a merchant.

 

I love a great many things in Pillars 2 individually, but right now there's a tendency toward feeling like it's a pile of blocks rather than something that's constructed purposefully. There are glimmers of what Pillars 2 could have been with a larger budget, with more time to flesh out the sailing and ship combat aspects of the game. I hope that we do see something that fleshes out these aspects a bit more, similar to the way the keep events in Pillars were added to make Caed Nua feel like a keep you were leading and not just a really expensive place to rest occasionally. 

 

I personally have yet to play an out and out pirate, although I've never seen anyone say anything about randomly generated vessels being added to the mix if you build up enough negative rep with a faction. Apologies if I missed something that makes piracy more worthwhile than just being able to attack every Deadfire Merchant you see.

 

I look forward to seeing Matteo's conclusions on what made them feel like they were being urged toward piracy after they give Pillars 2 another shot. 

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Mah. It's not jumping to conclusions. It's discussing and learning by understanding different view points.

 

Think about me. I have an opinion, a bad one.

 

But if you are right, something that i'm going to test in these days, i will learn to appreciate a game that until now...i considered (and still do, for now) a disappointment.

 

In short, this thread could lead me to appreciate a game i backed and could lead me to buy other Obsidian games in the future.

 

That's the beauty of dialogue and sharing opinions.

 

Don't worry. I don't want you proving anything to me :D. 

 

In fact, I think I missed a smiley face in my reply to imply I was joking/trying to pull your leg...

 

But if you're looking to replay the whole thing looking for non-'Aargh' options--they're there. 


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m0x5eY5.pngtBxm170.png

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But if you're looking to replay the whole thing looking for non-'Aargh' options--they're there.

 

Sorry, i must have missed something.

 

What do you mean with Aargh options?

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But if you're looking to replay the whole thing looking for non-'Aargh' options--they're there.

Sorry, i must have missed something.

 

What do you mean with Aargh options?

He means non-pirate options.

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...The British Navy would ply their crew with rum, they actually had a rum ration, ....

 

 

 Yes, and the rum was important. They added lime juice to the rum to prevent scurvy. The rum/lime ration helped the British become a major sea power (and simultaneously became the basis for the umbrella drinks you could get at a 1970's tiki bar - innovation at its finest). 

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And water could harbor bacteria, protozoa, and the like. Mixing it with rum to make grog made it safer to drink.

 

So pretty much anyone who wanted to keep a healthy crew in the age of sail would have alcohol as an essential part of crew rations. It has nothing to do with piracy.

Edited by Fardragon
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Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!

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Ok, i've already played a bit. Just a tiny bit.

 

But i already did such grandious battles.

 

Like, (i'm doing PoTD difficulty), beating the very first pirate ship battle with only my party (of level 4) and 5 crew members (minimum required to use a ship).

 

Battle possible only because of a certain amulet that grant you to summon a young dragon + 2 vywerns.

 

 

Ok, first impression seems to point toward what you all are saying.

 

You can play without being or behaving like a pirate.

 

BUT if further gameplay confirm this, i have one thing to say :

 

 

The game is litterally pulling you so hard into playing like a pirate that it could leave a very bad first impression.

 

I could have been decieved, considering how strong is the hidden message of the game.

 

It is undeniable that this PoE2 wants, urges you to be a pirate.

 

It does not force you to be one, that's what i seem to see now. But the line seems so thin.

 

There are so many features, roleplaying, if you act like a pirate.

Edited by Matteo89.b

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Ok, i've already played a bit. Just a tiny bit.

 

But i already did such grandious battles.

 

Like, (i'm doing PoTD difficulty), beating the very first pirate ship battle with only my party (of level 4) and 5 crew members (minimum required to use a ship).

 

Battle possible only because of a certain amulet that grant you to summon a young dragon + 2 vywerns.

 

 

Ok, first impression seems to point toward what you all are saying.

 

You can play without being or behaving like a pirate.

 

BUT if further gameplay confirm this, i have one thing to say :

 

 

The game is litterally pulling you so hard into playing like a pirate that it could leave a very bad first impression.

 

I could have been decieved, considering how strong is the hidden message of the game.

 

It is undeniable that this PoE2 wants, urges you to be a pirate.

 

It does not force you to be one, that's what i seem to see now. But the line seems so thin.

 

There are so many features, roleplaying, if you act like a pirate.

 

You getting obsessed over it?  :p

 

And don't worry, I am not too serious.

 

When in Rome, act like the Romans. Being in the Deadfire--maybe some good ol' plundering from time to time be nice, no?  


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Ok, i've already played a bit. Just a tiny bit.

 

But i already did such grandious battles.

 

Like, (i'm doing PoTD difficulty), beating the very first pirate ship battle with only my party (of level 4) and 5 crew members (minimum required to use a ship).

 

Battle possible only because of a certain amulet that grant you to summon a young dragon + 2 vywerns.

 

 

Ok, first impression seems to point toward what you all are saying.

 

You can play without being or behaving like a pirate.

 

BUT if further gameplay confirm this, i have one thing to say :

 

 

The game is litterally pulling you so hard into playing like a pirate that it could leave a very bad first impression.

 

I could have been decieved, considering how strong is the hidden message of the game.

 

It is undeniable that this PoE2 wants, urges you to be a pirate.

 

It does not force you to be one, that's what i seem to see now. But the line seems so thin.

 

There are so many features, roleplaying, if you act like a pirate.

 

Even when I was helping the Principi (The Pirates of the Deadfire) I usually resolved all their quests by killing other pirates, using diplomacy and not breaking the law, or dismantling the questgiver with my sword. (I don't negotiate with pirates =P). If killing other pirates makes me a pirate, then I'm  gonna keep taking them sons o' bitc*es down so I can at least remove some pirates from the world.

 

It may seem like the game pushes you to be a pirate, but I feel there are so many other options, even when doing quests FOR the pirates.

 

Alternatively, you can just straight up ignore all the Principi and massacre them like I did in my first playthrough.

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You don't need to be a pirate. I'll give you an example.

 

You are a Nature Godlike Druid. You were asked to explore the lands outside of your tribe in the beginning PoE1. Queue PoE2. You gain a ship and have no idea what to do. Through the course of the game you learn to live like a nomad, helping those in need, and discovering far off lands, accomplishing the goals of your initial journey.

 

RP completely off the top of my head. Pt is - you are required to captain a ship...you aren't required to act like a pirate.

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The real question here - why wouldn't you want to be a pirate???  I mean ... I work at a desk under fluorescent lights with some older woman or dude constantly giving me orders - please just let me be a pirate for the weekend lol :)

 

Maybe tmi - but honest, I have found the most interesting thing about this game that makes it different from other crpg games is the pretty deep content surrounding major quests and side-quests, but Obsidian's choice not to make any of this content conditional on completing quests - giving a whole new meaning to the word open world.  No spoilers so I won't elaborate, but just like you don't have to be a pirate, you don't have to do a lot of things in this game, but the depth of experience is still there if you want it :)  Totally unlike any other RPG I have played.

Edited by aaronghowell

“How do you 'accidentally' kill a nobleman in his own mansion?"

"With a knife in the chest. Or, rather, a pair of knives in the chest...”

The Final Empire, Mistborn Trilogy

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Nah, obsessed not.

Well, if i was 10 years younger probably yes.

 

But now there is no time to get obsessed to videogames :)

 

Anyway, let's say that i don't like not understanding things. So i simply can't accept this situation.

 

I will take my time, but i'll find out just how much freedom of not being a pirate you have in this game

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I have to agree with OP in that even though you are not forced to be a pirate, I feel a great push to be a pirate as well. However, a lot of comments in this thread helped me to realize that a lot of things I associate with being a pirate was hisorically actually more tied to being a sailor in general.

 

That being said, I'm wondering why there is such a great push towards piracy in a lot of rpgs with a setting involving pirates. Thinking of the Risen games, the pathfinder adventure path 'Skulls & Shackles' as well as Deadfire, supporting piracy feels much more fleshed out and encouraged than being against it. While I haven't played it, I imagine the Assassins Creed pirate game to be very similiar in this regard.

 

I'd actually much prefer to play in some kind of organization like the navy whose goal it is to end piracy, but this seems to be much less popular somehow. To be fair, I only played halfway through Deadfire before it went into hiatus until more patches / dlcs are released, and I didn't get to do a lot of the factions quests yet.

Edited by Doppelschwert

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That being said, I'm wondering why there is such a great push towards piracy in a lot of rpgs with a setting involving pirates. Thinking of the Risen games, the pathfinder adventure path 'Skulls & Shackles' as well as Deadfire, supporting piracy feels much more fleshed out and encouraged than being against it. While I haven't played it, I imagine the Assassins Creed pirate game to be very similiar in this regard.

I didn't play Risen2 or pathfinder. AssCreed:BlackFlag is certainly a pirate game, when its not being dragged down by being an AssCreed game. A bit more reactive map and actual consequence to your actions (shiphunters and notoriety is a joke) and it could have been a really decent pirate game.

 

As far as your request for a more military navy approach... it feels more like Deadfire to me. Just ally with with any faction rather than Principi, take bounties to rid the Deadfire from pirates and you are all set. 

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I have to agree with OP in that even though you are not forced to be a pirate, I feel a great push to be a pirate as well. However, a lot of comments in this thread helped me to realize that a lot of things I associate with being a pirate was hisorically actually more tied to being a sailor in general.

 

That being said, I'm wondering why there is such a great push towards piracy in a lot of rpgs with a setting involving pirates. Thinking of the Risen games, the pathfinder adventure path 'Skulls & Shackles' as well as Deadfire, supporting piracy feels much more fleshed out and encouraged than being against it. While I haven't played it, I imagine the Assassins Creed pirate game to be very similiar in this regard.

 

I'd actually much prefer to play in some kind of organization like the navy whose goal it is to end piracy, but this seems to be much less popular somehow. To be fair, I only played halfway through Deadfire before it went into hiatus until more patches / dlcs are released, and I didn't get to do a lot of the factions quests yet.

You should def join the Royal Deadfire Company. Edited by Verde
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Did we play separate games? At no point are you required to be a pirate. I mean just because you CAN be one doesn't mean you're forced to be one.


Yes! We have no bananas.

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Giving your crew rum does not make them pirates. The British Navy would ply their crew with rum, they actually had a rum ration, and calling them pirates would get you swinging from the gallows. They even supposedly used a barrel of rum to keep Admiral Nelson's body preserved. Most crews pirate or not drank while at sea because ship life was hard and it was the only thing to do.

 

 

gonna disagree on this point.  alcoholic drinks were not part o' the sailor's life to keep 'em drunk, though no doubt it were a possible secondary benefit.  booze is high carbs and not requiring special storage to keep "fresh."  compare to bread, which not only goes stale, but is painful to consume.  am not joking.  the bread and water punishment were not 'cause o' the blandness o' the diet but 'cause such a daily regimen causes rather severe constipation.  as odd as it may sound, the main reason sailors drank while at sea were 'cause o' pragmatic considerations related to sailor health and fitness. 

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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Oh ****. I like boats, despite not knowing how to swim, usually i drink beverages with friends, that are sometimes **** and mutiny about my leadership skills from time to time.

I must be a pirate D:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMhfbLRoGEw
 

 

 

Jokes aside. I played my first run as a mercenary, so i was more like a bounty hunter than a pirate. My current run is as an Scholar, so i'm more focused on finding ruins and discovering ancient stuff. However, in another run i was a insane pirate prone to destroy everyone and life itself.

Edited by Siegdarth
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