Shield holding stance - I don't quite like it

[dunehunter]

When comparing the stance of holding a shield below, I prefer the dark soul version. I don't care if DF's stance is more like a middle age soldier would use or not, dark soul version is just cooler

 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by dunehunter

[gkathellar]

I don't care if DF's stance is more like a middle age soldier would use or not

 

Neither is particularly realistic (nor is either shield).

[dunehunter]

Btw I'm not so familar with swordmanship in real world, but isn't it much more comforatable to hold the shield vertically than horizontally?? The centra of gravity is lower that way.

[Vitalis]

You are aware that the first picture shows a tower shield and the second shows a kite shield?

 

Incidentally, that is how both types of shields were properly held.

[dunehunter]

 

I don't care if DF's stance is more like a middle age soldier would use or not

 

Neither is particularly realistic (nor is either shield).

 

 

Yeah, but that's not the major point of my thread, it's about which stance i think looks better ot me...

[dunehunter]

You are aware that the first picture shows a tower shield and the second shows a kite shield?

 

Incidentally, that is how both types of shields were properly held.

 

But in DF, a tower shield is hold the same way as a kite shield, you can try it in the game.

[gkathellar]

You are aware that the first picture shows a tower shield and the second shows a kite shield?

 

Incidentally, that is how both types of shields were properly held.

 

To the best of my knowledge, the "tower shield" of Standard European Fantasy is almost entirely an RPG-ism - likely inspired by misunderstood depictions of the pavise, which is more of a semi-portable man-sized fortification than a shield in the conventional sense. The classical Greeks did use some very large shields, but in the context of Greek phalanx, and in keeping with the large shields sometimes seen in aboriginal warfare, these were usually comprised of a wooden frame with leather or hide stretched across the surface. The closest thing in the post-Roman European milieu to the eponymous tower shield was the the actual kite shield, a family of design from the late Dark Ages and early medieval, which had a distinctive teardrop shape to minimize weight relative to protection and to make the shield harder to grab and control.

 

Incidentally, the size of shields tends to be negatively correlated with the protective quality of armor - once you get plate, or even mail, you're generally well-protected enough that a smaller shield that can be brought to bear in the bind or even at grappling range tends to be more effective. For all that Dark Souls Guy is rockin' it up there, his shield is ridiculously impractical and is mostly just a giant lever with which to dislocate his should and floor him.

Edited August 3, 2018 by gkathellar

[Big-Ben]

People in general tend to misunderstand armor and medieval weapons. Strictly speaking it's correct to say that you're well protected with plate and that you should be able to function well with a small shield or none at all. The thing is if the person all armored up is trained enough you can move fairly well considering even a brief running period. In real life Eder wearing full plate with a helmet and shield would be overkill. Shields are also stressful when you take repeat blows. They also slow you down.

 

Hell even weapons tend to be overdone. You don't parry with blades all that much because they tend yo break. The most  egregious sin though is the katana. If you aren't properly trained with that it'll break rather quickly. I don't joke when I say you're better off wielding a katana like a fishing pole than something a game character would do.

[Elizer]

I don't see how real life depiction correlate with a "fantasy" game in the manor that it has to be realistic. We play a game where people summon dragons by nagging nonstop, and some other dude can transform into a dog for only 30 seconds for some reason. Not to mention a barbarian, who only gets angry and shouts.

 

I agree with this guys idea, it would be even neater if the chacter assumed posed when using the wall ability

[hilfazer]

 

Hell even weapons tend to be overdone. You don't parry with blades all that much because they tend yo break. The most  egregious sin though is the katana. If you aren't properly trained with that it'll break rather quickly. I don't joke when I say you're better off wielding a katana like a fishing pole than something a game character would do.

 

Break? You mean 'bend' right?

And swords made of spring steel will not bend either.

[Vitalis]

 

 

Hell even weapons tend to be overdone. You don't parry with blades all that much because they tend yo break. The most egregious sin though is the katana. If you aren't properly trained with that it'll break rather quickly. I don't joke when I say you're better off wielding a katana like a fishing pole than something a game character would do.

Break? You mean 'bend' right?

And swords made of spring steel will not bend either.

Well someone has drunk the katana koolaid.

[MarkTheDP]

 

 

Hell even weapons tend to be overdone. You don't parry with blades all that much because they tend yo break. The most egregious sin though is the katana. If you aren't properly trained with that it'll break rather quickly. I don't joke when I say you're better off wielding a katana like a fishing pole than something a game character would do.

Break? You mean 'bend' right?

And swords made of spring steel will not bend either.

He meant break. Steel was not the quality then it is today. Japanese swords were folded so many times specifically because the steel was ****. Even modern-made swords break with repeated sword on sword blows. Its infrequent, but it happens often enough that you'll see it in fencing tournaments every now and then.

[gkathellar]

I don't see how real life depiction correlate with a "fantasy" game in the manor that it has to be realistic.

Eh, yes and no. There's something to be said for realism in any milieu, if only because it's involving and because the past is actually a really fascinating place with a lot of cool stuff to draw upon. Pillars in general draws a lot of its aesthetic from the Renaissance and high medieval, and I think it's a lot cooler than the aesthetic of Standard European Fantasy for its trouble. It gets the Medieval Combat Nerd in me going, and that makes me happy. YMMV.

 

That said, I am not advocating for "realistic" combat in a game like this. In general, I feel it can't be done, and attempts to move away from abstraction and towards realism often just end up being surreal in new, interesting ways. Nods towards reality are cool, but once you get into the particulars, it can get real stupid, real fast.

 

(The only reason I brought up realism earlier was to note that in terms of shield stances snd design, Emo Elf in the OP already isn't any better than Soulsguy, so that's not an excuse for being less cool.)

 

 

Hell even weapons tend to be overdone. You don't parry with blades all that much because they tend yo break. The most egregious sin though is the katana. If you aren't properly trained with that it'll break rather quickly. I don't joke when I say you're better off wielding a katana like a fishing pole than something a game character would do.

Break? You mean 'bend' right?

And swords made of spring steel will not bend either.

Swords of any type can break as a result metal fatigue, and so-called "spring steel," loses the ability to snap back into place with time and stress until either it shatters or the bend becomes permanent (spring steel is trash, incidentally). This is why most blades have a designated portion meant for different types of parry - for Japanese and most Chinese swords, virtually any kind of impact is going to be taken on a deliberately overbuilt and typically unsharpened section extending roughly 10-30 cm up from the hilt (European fencing refers to this part of the sword as "the strong," because not only is the blade physically thicker and stronger there, but so is the fighter, as the strong is the section of the weapon closest to the hand).

 

Far greater than the risk of bending or outright snapping is the risk of a chipped or damaged edge, which is mitigated by using the flat and the unsharpened strong to absorb solid impacts whenever possible. Japanese fencing has a comparatively greater emphasis on voiding (dodging, to use a non-fencer's terminology) than the comparable German longsword, in part because it is much harder to avoid blocking with the edge. That said, the katana's rigidity and strong spine make it excellent at absorbing blows with the strong, and there's a strong tradition of binding as well as block-counter in most historical Japanese fencing styles that belies the commonly-cited notion that these swords were fragile or poorly made.

 

In fact, one of the draws of Japan's crappy volcanic iron is that it's riddled with impurities that are actually really good for making single-edged swords. Naturally occurring alloys of tungsten and molybdenum? Yes please.

Edited August 4, 2018 by gkathellar