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Sorting out the stacks: is there an accessible list of which affects actually stack


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I'm reminded of an interview, or possible a presentation, where Josh opined that one of the things people found to be most problematic with Pillars was the opaqueness of the games rules. Something which I agreed with. Now, that was actually largely fixed in subsequent patches and Pillars became much more transparent, showing how damage increases were calculated for instance.

 

Well, I'm beginning to have the same problem with Deadfire that I had with Pillars. I have a somewhat vague sense of which effects stack with each other, which I have inherited from Pillars, but stacking has undergone changes and now the rules became a bit more opaque again. And although I can certainly see that more effects stack, especially inherent ones (from abilities and clothing), there are other temporary ones that escape me. Like from drugs, food and other consumables as well as from spells and scrolls and such.

 

So I'm just wondering if there is a good list of the rules of effect stacking. It is a bit of an annoyance when you apply a spell buff without knowing whether it has the intended effects or not.

 

Edit. Also I seem to have used the wrong word in my title, should be "effect" not "affect". I didn't intend to call out for a list of emotionally moving stacks. Could some very considerate moderator change this please, I don't seem to able to do this myself  :facepalm:

Edited by Baldiedash
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All I know is that effects with the same name don't stack - like Strong or Smart - even though each effect's duration runs separately (right?).

 

I also remember there was an instance where I thought two Strength buffs would stack on Serafen, but it turned out they didn't. Like one effect from food and another from some drug - I might recall this incorrectly.

 

But anyway, info sources on this game are still pretty bare right now. Just the other day I wanted to look up a list of poisons and what they do, and was thoroughly disappointed. A specific summary list like what you're looking for might take a while to show up, if at all. You might as well experiment and write up such a list yourself.

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General rule is that passives stack and actives don’t; modals count as active.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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General rule is that passives stack and actives don’t; modals count as active. 

 

 

Fair enough. But not to be to picky what counts as passive and which are active?

 

For instance Paladins have that all-defence-buff-on-kill ability. Does that stack with other all-defence buffs like in Pillars, or is it an active enough ability that it doesn't. Is such an ability active or passive? Sure it activates on kill but it's latent and permanent like a passive. I would guess it doesn't

 

Not to mention priests all protection spell, which might stack with similar buffs despite its activeness.

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General rule is that passives stack and actives don’t; modals count as active. 

 

 

Fair enough. But not to be to picky what counts as passive and which are active?

 

For instance Paladins have that all-defence-buff-on-kill ability. Does that stack with other all-defence buffs like in Pillars, or is it an active enough ability that it doesn't. Is such an ability active or passive? Sure it activates on kill but it's latent and permanent like a passive. I would guess it doesn't

 

Not to mention priests all protection spell, which might stack with similar buffs despite its activeness.

 

 

IIRC anything on the right side of the level up screen is a passive, anything on the left is active.

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"Wizards do not need to be The Dudes Who Can AoE Nuke You and Gish and Take as Many Hits as a Fighter and Make all Skills Irrelevant Because Magic."

-Josh Sawyer

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The tree says passive and active. It's that simple. :)

 

Passives stack with everything, including actives. Actives are not supposed to stack with each other if they address the same stat. However, there are a few exceptions. For example an active ability that does +20 to all defenses can stack with one that does only +20 to deflection so that you get +40 deflection. It's not a lot, but they are there (Circle of Protection, Vigorous Defense, Llengrath's Safeguard...).

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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IIRC anything on the right side of the level up screen is a passive, anything on the left is active.

If so then that is very good to know  :yes: . That piece of information certainly helps when building a character, and inform some tactical usages of those skills.

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The tree says passive and active. It's that simple.  :)

 

Passives stack with everything, including actives. Actives are not supposed to stack with each other if they address the same stat. However, there are a few exceptions. For example an active ability that does +20 to all defenses can stack with one that does only +20 to deflection so that you get +40 deflection. It's not a lot, but they are there (Circle of Protection, Vigorous Defense, Llengrath's Safeguard...). 

I guess I can't get a clearer answer than that  :yes:

 

So that would mean that Vigorous Defence would stack with Arcane Shield for a +70 deflection

 

If you would hazard a guess, do you think those exceptions are balance bugs, or features?

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If you would hazard a guess, do you think those exceptions are balance bugs, or features?

 

If the first game is any indication, it's intended behavior.

 

Actives only fail to stack if they boost the same thing (e.g. two active abilities granting a bonus to Deflection don't stack); if they boost different things, they are meant to stack (and a bonus "to all defenses" is different from a bonus "to Deflection.")

Edited by AndreaColombo

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Actives only fail to stack if they boost the same thing (e.g. two active abilities granting a bonus to Deflection don't stack); if they boost different things, they are meant to stack (and a bonus "to all defenses" is different from a bonus "to Deflection.")

Excellent, hopefully it will stay that way. It would make it easier to attain that +210 deflection WotEP style counter build  :yes:

 

I know it might have seem a bit of a naive question for experienced Deadfireists but as I said on the outset, it isn't the lack of good solid rules, it's that they are a bit opaque. And you certainly have helped making them a bit clearer.

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My post reminded myself of an addition question. Surely, ordinary passive deflection buffs stack with passive disengagement deflection buffs?

 

I haven't tested it, but all the signals point to yes (both are passives, and passives always stack.)

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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The tree says passive and active. It's that simple. :)

 

Passives stack with everything, including actives. Actives are not supposed to stack with each other if they address the same stat. However, there are a few exceptions. For example an active ability that does +20 to all defenses can stack with one that does only +20 to deflection so that you get +40 deflection. It's not a lot, but they are there (Circle of Protection, Vigorous Defense, Llengrath's Safeguard...).

 

How do items factor in to this? If I make a Barbarian/Monk, equip it with Modwyr, activate swift flurry and frenzy, then kill a guy, I'm not getting stacking action speed bonuses from swift flurry, frenzy, Modwyr, and bloodlust because the first two are actives and cancel each other out, right? But the rest should stack?

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