M4xw0lf Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Ok, this is a spoilery forum, but I'll just repeat the warning - lots of endgame spoilers. So, after doing my first run without siding with anybody, I'm now set to get every faction ending. I started with the Huana end - and was immediately tempted to ditch it again. I knew/strongly assumed Maia wouldn't stay. But two sentences later I also have to dismiss Pallegina, wtf?! That's 40% of my party, which was a well-tuned machine, torn apart without a warning! Plus Pallegina was super important as tank/support/healbot. And both Maia and Pallegina carried some of the best gear and just took it with them! Well that's basically it, just venting a bit. Managed to kill the guardian with Eder (Fighter) and Konstanten (Chanter) as replacement, but it was tough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Reaffirms my theory that sidekicks exist only to act as proximate replacements for companions that you lose due to factions choices. 3 "Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies" "Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4xw0lf Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) Reaffirms my theory that sidekicks exist only to act as proximate replacements for companions that you lose due to factions choices. Unfortunately there's no Herald and no Scout replacement :-/ Filling the gaps with Eder and Konstanten gave me similar survivability, but wrecked my damage output. Edited July 27, 2018 by M4xw0lf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Yeah, going the direct Huana route while everyone is pretty equal in power really ****s both factions over, so those two wouldn't be happy about it. It sounds like this news is too late for you but if you agree to RDC (maybe VTC?) and back out they'll try to kill you. If you act in self defense (unless things have changed), your companions won't leave, but you still deal a huge blow. Queen Onekaza will be satisfied with that and you can side with her without the quest. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Reaffirms my theory that sidekicks exist only to act as proximate replacements for companions that you lose due to factions choices.Unfortunately there's no Herald and no Scout replacement :-/ Filling the gaps with Eder and Konstanten gave me similar survivability, but wrecked my damage output. Yeah, definitely not one-to-one, but it felt like if you lost “this person” you could kinda sorta replace them with “this person”. For instance Ydwin could back up Cipher Serafen or Spellsword Aloth, and so on. "Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies" "Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uuuhhii Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 just don't bring maia and pellagina tekehu can be convince to stay even choose assassinate the queen only maia and pellagina have problem with huana vtc and rdc final quest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4xw0lf Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) Thing is, I WANT Maia and Pallegina I find they enhance the game experience a lot due to all the ties they have with various people. Or do you mean I should not bring them to the audience with the queen where they will leave? Does it prevent them from leaving if they stay on the ship for that? Edited July 28, 2018 by M4xw0lf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Thing is, I WANT Maia and Pallegina I find they enhance the game experience a lot due to all the ties they have with various people. Or do you mean I should not bring them to the audience with the queen where they will leave? Does it prevent them from leaving if they stay on the ship for that? It prevents them from leaving because of the conversation, yes, but I'm pretty sure they leave no matter what if you actively try to ruin their related factions with the quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulk'O'Saurus Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Good stuff. I rememeber when I played Wasteland two, out of party of six, two of mine got hacked and fought against me in the last boss battle :D. Other than that, why not just recruit hirelings from the pub? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitalis Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 And this is why you don't side with the morally bankrupt natives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I think calling them morally bankrupt is a little simplistic. None of the factions are perfect or entirely evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4xw0lf Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) All of them are a bit unlikeable. I miss a New Vegas style Wildcard option... our own army of Adra Animats or something. Taking over Splintered Reef and conquering the Deadfire with undead would be a great option for evil, necromancery characters. Or at least being able to give the faction leaders more input on how to be less unlikeable, for more wholesome ending slides. Edited July 29, 2018 by M4xw0lf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I get the appeal of that. I kind of half hoped I could get away with a wild card, because that's what I did in New Vegas, but I think that would sort of defeat the point. That issue wasn't supposed to have a clean, perfect resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitalis Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I think calling them morally bankrupt is a little simplistic. None of the factions are perfect or entirely evil. It was intended hyperbole, the only real faction that I like is Furrante's Principi since he's honest about what he does. The Huana practice a worse form of slavery with the Roparu, tricked a dragon into slavery, and probably a number of other idiotic things; but they're the "natives" that dindu nuffin' to most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I think calling them morally bankrupt is a little simplistic. None of the factions are perfect or entirely evil.It was intended hyperbole, the only real faction that I like is Furrante's Principi since he's honest about what he does. The Huana practice a worse form of slavery with the Roparu, tricked a dragon into slavery, and probably a number of other idiotic things; but they're the "natives" that dindu nuffin' to most people. Oh! My apologies on that then. I've seen a surprising number of people talk about it like that in a way that sounds pretty straightforward and serious. I think one of the cool things is that they are the natives, and they *are* getting ****ed over, but the system their country is forming from isn't perfect itself. Someone mentioned they were from a country that experienced colonialism and that Deadfire does a really good job at showing the nuances of the issue. On a side note : I don't think the Roparu are equivalent to slavery - at least when they're supported properly by their society. It makes me uncomfortable that no one has a choice in what they do, and that sucks, but it is done in a collective family /community kind of way where they make sure everyone is taken care of of and contributes. And that has advantages (like a proper support system) that other systems do not. The dragon thing is pretty ****ed up. The Huana acted out of desperation to protect themselves and grow (if I remember right), but that was at the complete expense and freedom of someone else - even more so, someone that was a sort of guardian for the archipelago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitalis Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 The issue with the Roparu is that such a system works with a small tribe of say 30-50 people, but the moment you toss them into large city the system falls apart. Which is what happens to all systems of that nature. If the Huana become centralized, then there will be more cities, which leads to more Roparu, which leads to them literally eating garbage in order to stave off death by starvation. The situation in the Gullet will become the norm, but at least the Huana remain on their land? I'd rather see the Roparu being treated better, than have all the "feels" over making sure the Huana keep their culture/land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verde Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 The issue with the Roparu is that such a system works with a small tribe of say 30-50 people, but the moment you toss them into large city the system falls apart. Which is what happens to all systems of that nature. If the Huana become centralized, then there will be more cities, which leads to more Roparu, which leads to them literally eating garbage in order to stave off death by starvation. The situation in the Gullet will become the norm, but at least the Huana remain on their land? I'd rather see the Roparu being treated better, than have all the "feels" over making sure the Huana keep their culture/land. Did you do the Gullet missions? That was the entire theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitalis Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 The issue with the Roparu is that such a system works with a small tribe of say 30-50 people, but the moment you toss them into large city the system falls apart. Which is what happens to all systems of that nature. If the Huana become centralized, then there will be more cities, which leads to more Roparu, which leads to them literally eating garbage in order to stave off death by starvation. The situation in the Gullet will become the norm, but at least the Huana remain on their land? I'd rather see the Roparu being treated better, than have all the "feels" over making sure the Huana keep their culture/land. Did you do the Gullet missions? That was the entire theme. That the Huana should never be supported, supporting them is not good, and that their culture should be thrown into the trash bin? Yes, I couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I think Verde is referring to the fact that you can resolve the issues you're referring to. The Gullet turns into a haven for the Roparu if you resolve the problem via the Eothasian efforts, and maybe directly through the Huana royalty, and then don't mess them up with the RDC or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitalis Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) I think Verde is referring to the fact that you can resolve the issues you're referring to. The Gullet turns into a haven for the Roparu if you resolve the problem via the Eothasian efforts, and maybe directly through the Huana royalty, and then don't mess them up with the RDC or similar. And then the next ruler decides to reverse it because they don't want outside help, in fact they want to get rid of all outsiders... Edited July 30, 2018 by Vitalis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeonheart Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Enoi mentions the roparu were doing pretty good in Neketaka before the gullet came to be in its present situation thanks to the 'natural disaster' that collapsed the middle of the mountain. The jab that no one higher up the chain has really stepped up to help since then has more than a whiff of New Orleans to it. Numerous times its hinted that the more the Huana have tried to emulate the foreign powers invading them, the more **** the gods have heaped upon them. Almost like they are specifically being prevented from returning to their former strength. Is Ondra responsible for the Gullet's current condition as Dereo suggests? Biha blames the foreigners for much of the roparu's troubles since they bring crime and reduce the available prize share for the Huana. When you arrange a better prize share for them or smuggle in more food, are you just accounting for a mess foreign interference has created? Its fine to hate the Huana faction but its silly to think their issues are entirely of their own making. I can certainly see the appeal some people find in breaking them of their bondage to the Engwithan gods and returning Ukaizo to them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitalis Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Enoi mentions the roparu were doing pretty good in Neketaka before the gullet came to be in its present situation thanks to the 'natural disaster' that collapsed the middle of the mountain. The jab that no one higher up the chain has really stepped up to help since then has more than a whiff of New Orleans to it. Numerous times its hinted that the more the Huana have tried to emulate the foreign powers invading them, the more **** the gods have heaped upon them. Almost like they are specifically being prevented from returning to their former strength. Is Ondra responsible for the Gullet's current condition as Dereo suggests? Biha blames the foreigners for much of the roparu's troubles since they bring crime and reduce the available prize share for the Huana. When you arrange a better prize share for them or smuggle in more food, are you just accounting for a mess foreign interference has created? Its fine to hate the Huana faction but its silly to think their issues are entirely of their own making. I can certainly see the appeal some people find in breaking them of their bondage to the Engwithan gods and returning Ukaizo to them. Yes, every time the Huana have tried to centralize it falls apart. Which indicates two things: Ondra is making it fail, or the system the Huana currently have only works in a decentralized tribal network. We also need to remember that the Old City's collapse is not in living memory. It collapsed generations ago, likely even before the VTC showed up, as is evidenced by the in game book On the Provenance and Ruination of Neketaka's "Old City". The book states that the surviving structures of the old city are unlike the construction in the rest of the city and compared to most Huana buildings. Huana buildings are built in such a way to seemingly deal with the unstable tectonics of the Deadfire, which leaves the inference that the Old City was a combination Engwithan and Ancient Huana construction. This book also mentions the disparity that exists in the Gullet, on how ashamed the leadership should be for the state of it's residents. The ingame date for when this book was written is unknown. Biha states that the living conditions for the Roparu were better BEFORE coming to the city, where the Mataru do not take care of them. The Mataru treat the denizens in the Gullet as criminals, routinely sending them into the Old City to die. When the Dawnstars tried to help the Roparu, they were turned away since it is not their job to take care of the Roparu. This is further evidence by the sick in Pitli's house, where the sick are being hidden from the Mataru so they are not thrown into the Old City to die. The Principi commonly use the Roparu as workers because they know that the Roparu are powerless to earn money in any way. Which in turn makes them "criminals" in Huana law with immediate banishment to the Old City. The Queen also wants to forcibly shut down the Principi, and it is strongly hinted that they are going to do just that regardless of why deals made to supply the Roparu for food. The Principi may not be as benevolent as the Dawnstars in their assistance, but at least it's better than just tossing garbage into the Gullet to feed the Roparu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4xw0lf Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Ah, the joy continues... siding with Rauatai makes Pallegina and Tekehu leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XEternalXDreamsX Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Ah, the joy continues... siding with Rauatai makes Pallegina and Tekehu leave. Ouch. O.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Yeah, that requires assassinating the queen, so... I don't know if you can keep Pallegina with the RDC, but I think you can keep Tekehu in specific conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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