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Pathfinder Kingmaker is bigger then Deadfire


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Otherwise my 18 Cha 10 Wis Feyspeaker wouldn't have been able to cast spells above level 0.

le sigh.

 

harrim, with a 10 charisma, were able to level-up and gain new spells pre 1.06. so apply your reasoning to pre 1.06 harrim and to what conclusion does you arrive? wisdom were indicated in level-up as the prime attribute o' a fey speaker, and a 10 charisma feyspeaker harrim aquired druid spells o' level two and three and beyond. am not saying charisma were useless to a feyspeaker pre-patch, but at the very least, pre-patch, wisdom were also effective for a feyspeaker... and as the actual in-game level-up indicated wisdom as the prime attribute...

 

a viable build concept, a build concept supported by in-game description, were rendered largely impotent by a patch. kiss +12 hours o' gaming goodbye.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Because it was a bug.
so? in-game description o' class indicated wisdom as prime attribute. spell memorizations and dcs behaved as if wisdom were the prime attribute. bug or not, there has been numerous changes by the developers which has led to various builds performing significantly different post patch, though perhaps no more dramatic than feyspeaker.

 

it is predictable there will be bugs and and changes which invalidate player choices in a game such as kingmaker. predictable developer fails is the reason why respec should be a feature o' all these kinda games. goes w/o saying, players should not need pay for developer errors.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Yes, and in the tabletop Feyspeaker uses Charisma. It's not as if they decided to change it because of balance forcing you to restart because you lose a talent point due to a big when you respec for months on end...

 

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo-druid-archetypes/feyspeaker-druid-archetype/

 

again, so what?  am not concerned what feyspeaker is in pnp.  none o' these classes is implemented exact as they appear in pnp.  flanking isn't working as it does in pnp.  numerous kingmaker spells do not work exact same as in pnp.  is not for Gromnir to puzzle out which changes is accidental and which is intended.  similar, if owlcat fixes kingmaker flanking tomorrow, am gonna feel a bit foolish for having given so many characters levels o' vivisectionist or rogue.  

 

and am not knowing what 

 

"It's not as if they decided to change it because of balance forcing you to restart because you lose a talent point due to a big when you respec for months on end..."

 

means in present context?  is that a poe dig?  perhaps am missing a word or two?  if is a poe dig, is a good thing poe has respec so such issues might be addressed positive by players w/o need for a restart. and lord knows we would be more understanding o' balance adjustments with available respec as 'posed to current owlcat failure o' owlcat implementing pathfinder rules with inherent busted balance.  only reason for owlcat borked implementation is either mistake or inability to match pnp. 

 

if ingame description said prime attribute for feyspeaker were charisma, but we had harrim chose anyways 'cause we saw game were bugged and applying wisdom, that would be on Gromnir.  if we were exploiting what were obvious a mistake, that would be on us. not what happened.  actual ingame description told us prime attribute were wisdom, and we chose wisdom as a reasonable person would do.  

 

and again, if you is comparing km on sly to poe, we welcome such, 'cause this is one aspect poe clear does better.  not only is obsidian active in attempting to fix balance issues as well as bugs, but they got a feature which allows players to respond to minor and major changes which is occurring with each patch.  owlcat can wash hands on balance issues like pontius pilate and blame pathfinder rules for imbalances, even where the crpg implementation is creating the imbalance?  even if you believe such silliness, there is many examples o' owlcat failure to implement rules as written, and for which player is left to guess whether such will or will not be fixed.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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I'm trying to play a melee inquisitor but I'm not sure I'm building it right. I know I'm putting way too much into charisma but I can't bear dump it because of the whole "king" thing.

 

Any suggestions?

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Is there really an "automanage kingdom" option? Just reading those tips makes it look like a real pita to me.

There is one, but your kingdom can still get destroyed from using it! However, in a recent patch, they made a toggle that makes your kingdom indestructible.

 

What? The whole point of Auto is that it makes it impossible for you to lose your Kingdom. I think it even says so in the description of this mode. Indestructible was added for people who want to manage the Kingdom but don't want to lose because they're bad at it :p

 

I know. There are posts about peeps losing their kingdoms, having picked Auto! :grin:

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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What? Enemy strengths and weaknesses had to be completely transparent in PnP? Which universe is this?

 

They did not, and do not, have to be transparent in any way whatsoever. For the record, I still happen to play D&D (3.5, the best one in my view) approximately twice a month, and stuff like that is not transparent, nor would we players want it to be.

Well it is ages since I played, but don't you get to write down monster statistics after trying different approaches on them the first time around? (which is precisely what Pillars does - it'll just print a question mark on defenses when you encounter something unknown)

 

What? Never heard of anyone writing down any statistics in PnP.

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there must be some memory leak in this game, after playing it for prolonged time my PC just goes into crawl mode :/

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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What? Never heard of anyone writing down any statistics in PnP.

Well in that case I tip my hat to your exquisite memory, good sir. No wonder you don't need any in-game helpers.

 

 

I do have a decent memory but it is far from exquisite. I believe this is more a question of playing style and general mentality.

 

It goes something like this. There is an underlying mechanism that is pretty much reducible to mathematics. In other words, there are certain constants and then there are variables affecting them. This stuff is better kept as much under the hood as possible, simply because it's more fun that way. The main exception that always happens is in a PnP battle: if an encounter against a single enemy lasts for a number of rounds, it is inevitable that the enemy AC gets mapped out. First, we find that 23 is not enough to hit. Then we find that 27 is. Eventually we find out that the AC is 25.

 

And of course we make assumptions and observations: if a fiery-looking salamanderish creature attacks us, we are not likely to rely on fire, and if we have cold available, we will use it.

 

But writing stats down and making lists of them sounds like turning a PnP session into a lesson in math, statistics and accounting. Fair enough, if that's what you like, but I don't see any attraction in that.

 

In CRPGs, I never min-max my characters. If I specialize in, say, greataxes, I don't go on forums asking about the location of the best greataxe in the game, that would be stupid in my view. If there are difficult monsters, I very much prefer finding solutions myself. I like to solve quests on my own, by myself, and find out stuff.

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I'm trying to play a melee inquisitor but I'm not sure I'm building it right. I know I'm putting way too much into charisma but I can't bear dump it because of the whole "king" thing.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Note that this character starts dishing out pain at level 6, you might want to consider getting Rogue levels earlier.

 

Personally I combined this build with Monster Tactician with Animal Domain. Took Inquisitor 4 first (to get the pet), then Rogue 3, Monk 1, then spam Inq levels. Make sure to pick up Augment Summoning and Boon Companion before your melee combat feats. You get a summoner with a pet and strong melee damage.

 

there must be some memory leak in this game, after playing it for prolonged time my PC just goes into crawl mode :/

Maybe it overheats :p

Edited by Manveru123
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For some reason I have the "Seeking an Audience" events from both High Priest and Magister won't clear, so I can't rank them up beyond V.

 

Pondering on taking another short break while awaiting hot fixes and such.

"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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That isn't exactly the kind of build I was going for but thanks.

 

Right now I have an Inquisitor of Iomedae and I thought it might be cool to take some levels in Aldori Defender for flavor.

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I went with the Ranger / Inquisitor mix, with just enough Rogue to get the Weapon Finesse aspects.  High Dex and Wis, Two-Weapon Fighting style, and the teamwork feats that provide extra attacks of opportunity and increase critical chance.

So he's slicing and dicing with a pair of Aldori Dueling Swords...

"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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I'm trying to play a melee inquisitor but I'm not sure I'm building it right. I know I'm putting way too much into charisma but I can't bear dump it because of the whole "king" thing.

 

Any suggestions?

16 Str

14 Dex if Medium Armor/12Dex is Heavy Armor taking the feat

14 Con

10 Intelligence

16/18 Wisdom depending on race

12 Charisma

 

Always put a skill point in persuasion, and you can save scum if you fail.

 

there must be some memory leak in this game, after playing it for prolonged time my PC just goes into crawl mode :/

It's the engine, it does this in every game it's in. Edited by Vitalis
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What? Never heard of anyone writing down any statistics in PnP.

Well in that case I tip my hat to your exquisite memory, good sir. No wonder you don't need any in-game helpers.

 

 

I do have a decent memory but it is far from exquisite. I believe this is more a question of playing style and general mentality.

 

It goes something like this. There is an underlying mechanism that is pretty much reducible to mathematics. In other words, there are certain constants and then there are variables affecting them. This stuff is better kept as much under the hood as possible, simply because it's more fun that way. The main exception that always happens is in a PnP battle: if an encounter against a single enemy lasts for a number of rounds, it is inevitable that the enemy AC gets mapped out. First, we find that 23 is not enough to hit. Then we find that 27 is. Eventually we find out that the AC is 25.

 

And of course we make assumptions and observations: if a fiery-looking salamanderish creature attacks us, we are not likely to rely on fire, and if we have cold available, we will use it.

 

But writing stats down and making lists of them sounds like turning a PnP session into a lesson in math, statistics and accounting. Fair enough, if that's what you like, but I don't see any attraction in that.

 

I've never heard of a DM allowing players to write down stats of enemies they encounter. As a player, I wouldn't even entertain the possibility. It would never occur to us to do that. And even if one of the players suggested it, our DM wouldn't allow it. As players, we're too busy roleplaying our characters and being involved in the story than to put on our statistician hat. It comes across as metagaming and something my or other players characters wouldn't do.

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there must be some memory leak in this game, after playing it for prolonged time my PC just goes into crawl mode :/

If I'm on the kingdom map and turn on location names, my FPS goes from 60+ to 20... What the hell? :/

 

I've never heard of a DM allowing players to write down stats of enemies they encounter. As a player, I wouldn't even entertain the possibility. It would never occur to us to do that. And even if one of the players suggested it, our DM wouldn't allow it. As players, we're too busy roleplaying our characters and being involved in the story than to put on our statistician hat. It comes across as metagaming and something my or other players characters wouldn't do.

If you are even remotely attentive during meets it is inevitable that you will learn almost all relevant stats, weaknesses and strengths of almost all monsters and adversaries in the game. Without writing them down.

Edited by Azdeus

Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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Well, since we are discussing builds, what is a good one for a Sorcerer? Is having Charisma 20 a good idea? What about being an Aasimar?

8/10 Str

14/16 DeX (depending on race)

12/14 Con

8/10 Int

10 Wis

18 Cha (Possible as Aasimar)

 

Magic Missile

Mage Armor

 

Magic missile would be your main damage for a level one spell. I dont recall which cantrip would be better, but until you get more casts you would need to cast those or more likely rely on your crossbow. Mage Armor can be cast once per rest usually, but may be unneeded.

 

Past that I don't recall which spells any second level would be of use.

 

I also dont recall the bloodlines offered in game, but generally avoid the ones that offer a melee buff like Draconic/Aberrant/Abyssal.

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Well, since we are discussing builds, what is a good one for a Sorcerer? Is having Charisma 20 a good idea? What about being an Aasimar?

8/10 Str

14/16 DeX (depending on race)

12/14 Con

8/10 Int

10 Wis

18 Cha (Possible as Aasimar)

 

Magic Missile

Mage Armor

 

Magic missile would be your main damage for a level one spell. I dont recall which cantrip would be better, but until you get more casts you would need to cast those or more likely rely on your crossbow. Mage Armor can be cast once per rest usually, but may be unneeded.

 

Past that I don't recall which spells any second level would be of use.

 

I also dont recall the bloodlines offered in game, but generally avoid the ones that offer a melee buff like Draconic/Aberrant/Abyssal.

 

Thanks for the reply.  That's what I was looking for. :)

 

But I'm watching this video and if you can turn into a giant dragon, I'm not so sure of what I want anymore...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: somebody posted this in the comments.

 

 

 

A "third level dragon". Is it the player character?

 

853c0f9577a6a64467d45650d3e0d813.png

 

 

Edited by InsaneCommander

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Oh, nice.  Well, the game has enough interest that it's gone on 34 pages here.  I'm considering buying it, but I doubt I can go through 34 pages, but that there's even that much says that some people are playing and excited enough by what they see to discuss it at length.

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Oh, nice.  Well, the game has enough interest that it's gone on 34 pages here.  I'm considering buying it, but I doubt I can go through 34 pages, but that there's even that much says that some people are playing and excited enough by what they see to discuss it at length.

 

I think it's basically this: if you like D&D you'll very likely enjoy this game. But there are still many bugs to fix and if you are unfamiliar with the rules you may have some problem with bad builds.

 

Edit: Also, hard and unfair difficulties mean exactly that. ;)

Edited by InsaneCommander
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I'm trying to play a melee inquisitor but I'm not sure I'm building it right. I know I'm putting way too much into charisma but I can't bear dump it because of the whole "king" thing.

 

Any suggestions?

melee inquisitor has a few good options.  nerd commando has a good option with the dex build.  personal, we like skill points and big weapons. inquisitors get loads o' skills, but am gonna always give 14 int for more.  choose human for extra feat and extra skill.  if you do not care 'bout skills, you may alter the following a bit.  s15,d12,c12,i14,w17,ch12.  if non fantastic charisma bothers you, recall stern gaze gets you 1/2 inquisitor level added to intimidate persuade checks, and with Gromnir suggestions you is gonna max persuasion anyways. even so, perhaps lower int by 2 and increase ch if you feel it is appropriate.  regardless, under influence o' heroism or the like, you is gonna see intimidate near 50 by late game.

 

feats and secondary class choices is gonna define your inquisitor. pick heavy armour feat at level 1.  shelyn is a good deity option for luck domain and to get a reach weapon, but personal am preferring gorum as we mentioned earlier in the thread.  destruction domain will add damage and a greatsword is a nice 2-h weapon. gorum is a perfect ideological choice for a build which is gonna exploit intimidate over and over and overandoverandover.  1 level rogue (thug) and 1 level vivisectionist will get you a couple tiers o' sneak attack as well as strength mutagen.  add accomplished sneak attacker feat for additional sneak attack goodness.  kingmaker flanking is busted, so virtual every melee build benefits from sneak attacks. with thug, any successful demoralize attempt lasting more than four rounds becomes frightened, so take persuasive, intimidating prowess and skill focus: persuasion to increase your intimidation.  other thematic feats which synergize well with your intimidator is dazzling display, cornugon smash, shatter defenses and dreadful carnage.   make certain to take weapon focus and power attack as they is prerequisites for a number o' feats we mention.  extra bane would be nice, but you likely do not have enough feats if you chose everything we suggested.

 

you are gonna be doing devastating damage with destruction judgement, destruction domain power, bane and sneak bonuses.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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