Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Beast of Winter DLC Announcement


  • Please log in to reply
128 replies to this topic

#121
JerekKruger

JerekKruger

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3268 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Am I getting the concept of entropy wrong or is it Obsidian?

 

So, there is a "God of entropy". Entropy is a measure of disorganisation, of possibility, in simple terms - measure of chaos inside a system. So, a god of entropy who wants to "end all things", to make everything still in absolute zero, is pretty much the opposite of entropy. He seems as strange as a god of war who dreams of ending all wars and getting eternal absolute peace. 

 

Shouldn't the god of entropy be the opposite, more like Joker, who wishes things to happen in the most chaotic and destructive way?

 

If I get the concept of entropy right, then Hylea with her "experience everything, invent new, change things" motto is way more entropic in nature then Rymrgand.

 

I mean, the state of the world desired by Rymrgand seems to be the state of ZERO entropy.

 

If we have a cup of coffee and a cup of milk sitting on a desk, the god of entropy should wish to mix them, to get the chaos of them mixing, not to freeze them both and sit and enjoy nothing happening. A god who wishes to stop every process in the universe is a god who is AGAINST entropy, isn't he?

 

I'm not willing to criticize, more to get the idea before DLC releases. Of course, there is always the ultimate answer "a god is beyond your comprehension" :)

 

The link between thermodynamic entropy and disorder is kinda tricky (or at least I find it so). As I understand it (which is probably quite poorly), we can measure certain macroscopic properties of a thermodynamic system* like it's temperature, pressure, volume etc., and these tell us something about the microstate of that system (the exact locations and velocities of all individual particles making it up), but obviously not everything. Entropy is a measure of how much we don't know know the microstate of a system, given the knowledge of it's macrostate, so the higher the entropy of a system, the more information we'd need to fully understand it's microstate. It's for this reason it's often described as a measure of disorder of the system, and it turns out that the highest entropy state of the Universe would be what's often described as its heat death: a state where all matter is at the same temperature (though this isn't an entirely accurate description, it's close enough).

 

It's clear (to me at least) that this is the idea Obsidian had in mind when talking about soul entropy. In this case a low entropy "soul system" would be one including lots of concentrated strong souls, and a high entropy system would be one with lots of what obsidian called soul motes (little bits of souls that have come loose during the natural process of the wheel).

 

It seems that Rymrgand is the god of all entropy in Eora (thermodynamic, soul and, presumably, information entropy). So he'd like to see them all maximised.

 

Hope this was at least somewhat helpful.

 

*Think about a sealed container of air.


  • neotemplar likes this

#122
neotemplar

neotemplar

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 59 posts
  • Location:Russia, Moscow

Yeah, huge thanks to all the repliers, I did some additional reading and now get the idea.

Basically, R.'s goal is a case of thermodynamic entropy, where temperature is replaced by "soul power level", while informational kind of entropy is secondary and not so important for the plot.

 

Get it now!


  • Sabri likes this

#123
Lótus Haddock

Lótus Haddock

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 27 posts
  • Location:Minas Gerais, Brasil

I think would be cool a Soul Crest system as "new level" to single class, like the mutations of Witcher 3, for example, a single class Paladin would level up his Zeal Crest and receive strong passives and high resource pool, while the multi class go up to 9 level abilities.

 

And by fictional lore,  two diferents crests can't be in the same soul... A good explanation to future level cap increase and a way to strength single class.


  • PantherX14 likes this

#124
grasida

grasida

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 82 posts
  • Deadfire Backer

Them not raising the level cap is just a huge nerf to single class. Like an enormous nerf to single class.
 
I have had reservations about rolling multis because by the time they hit high levels there wont be much game left to enjoy your high level abilities.
 
If OBS release all three expansions without raising the level cap then that gets rid of that concern. You can get to multiclass high levels and have plenty of time to enjoy them.


There is nothing inherent about spending more time at the level cap that benefits multiclasses. All you’re saying is that you think multiclasses have more to gain from high levels than single classes. That might reasonable for some multiclass combos, but certainly not for all characters. Wizards, priests and druids get their level 9 spells very late as well, and those are often considered to be top-tier. Similarly, martial classes get build making abilities at power levels 8 and 9 as well (twinned shots, heart of fury, gambit), so spending more time at the level cap also lets those play with their strongest tools for longer. And mostly the best multiclass characters get all the stuff that makes them so powerful very early — that’s a core part of the strength of multiclassing!

However you cut it, there’s no way adding content without increasing the level cap is a “nerf to single class characters” any more than it’s a buff to single class casters.
  • illathid, gkathellar, peko and 1 other like this

#125
Verde

Verde

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 278 posts
  • Steam:DragonSoundxSG
The whole purpose of rolling a Priest (besides RP) are their high level spells.

#126
baldurs_gate_2

baldurs_gate_2

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 330 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Is there now a higher level cap?



#127
gkathellar

gkathellar

    (11) Wizard

  • Members
  • 1793 posts
  • Location:Region of Erroneous Complaint
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Yeah, huge thanks to all the repliers, I did some additional reading and now get the idea.

Basically, R.'s goal is a case of thermodynamic entropy, where temperature is replaced by "soul power level", while informational kind of entropy is secondary and not so important for the plot.

 

Get it now!

 

For reference, thermodynamic entropy and informational entropy are in many ways the same thing. It may help to think of "chaos" as the process by which systems decay. At a fairly low level of entropy, the product of chaos is randomness, because decay produces unforeseen or extraneous elements that make the system behave erratically - dust on a motherboard, for instance - but at a state of 100% chaos there are no systems to disrupt. Information theory breaks down at this point.

 

Bringing this back to Rymrgand, the entropy he describes is the breakdown of spiritual energy until souls, as a unit of information, do not exist.



#128
uuuhhii

uuuhhii

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 55 posts

level cap should definitely stay at 20

but there are some problem with power level

start at 1 but not increase at every odd number

not sure if dlc need to add the cut trinket system

there are already too much equipment slot

but 8th companion are necessary at some point



#129
Achilles

Achilles

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2651 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Gold Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Some thoughts on
Rymrgand:


If Rymrgand is just as fake as the other gods, then the inevitablity of universal heat death may also be a lie.


however...


There are more gods than there are alcoves in the Engwithan god-making machine...

The Engwithan gods are representations of their cultural values turned up to 11. Iovara has a line at the end of the first game that explains this (paraphrasing her: “anything taken to an extreme becomes grotesque”). Every mythology has a creation myth and an “end of the world” myth. Rymrgand is the latter.

Edited by Achilles, Yesterday, 07:58 AM.

  • illathid, JerekKruger, InsaneCommander and 2 others like this




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users