Shadowdancer Trickster/SP (Patch 1.2)

[nostalchic]

With Trickster rogues getting a substantial buff in with the upcoming patch, I'm now thinking switching a Transcendent Soul Blade for a Shadowdancer for a similar play-style but taking advantage of the full attacks of a rogue. Shattered Pillar for the Monk side.

 

General build would be:

1. Buffs:
   - Swift Flurry (try to keep active at all times)
   - Llengraths' Displacement + Mirrored Image for 3 guile total (is this enough deflection for riposte?)
2. Debuffs:
   - Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage for 1 guile
   - Persistent Distraction
3. Escape / Flagellants Path to target if needed
4. Crippling Strike / Torments Reach / Thunderous Blows for DPS
5. Force of Anguish as an emergency defensive move
6. Clarity of Agony for afflictions when needed

Devil of Caroc breastplate for the recovery + power pool boosts.

Dual wielding either Swords or Sword/Dagger (as dagger modal would help with riposte).

Stats would be: Per > Int > Dex / Mig > Res > Con

 

Is there something I'm missing or would this be quite a solid and fun alternative? Do the illusion buffs provide any worthwhile benefit for a DPS monk to be worth the drop in DPS from sneak attack?

[knownastherat]

 Llengraths' Displacement + Mirrored Image for 3 guile total (is this enough deflection for riposte?)

 

They will not stack.

[nostalchic]

 Llengraths' Displacement + Mirrored Image for 3 guile total (is this enough deflection for riposte?)

 

They will not stack.

 

Ah damn, had a feeling I was overlooking something simple. Hmm I guess tricksters are better left as CC with the buffs.

[knownastherat]

Personally, I consider Mirror Image weak since it degrades quite fast when being hit frequently within a short period of time.  Llengraths' Displacement, on the other hand, converts some hits to grazes and gives a substantial bonus to Reflex yielding good returns for committed resources especially in scenarios targeting Reflex and especially if a character has decent Reflex already. 

 

The build should be strong even without stacking the two.

[nostalchic]

Yeah true. The more I think about it, even without the stacking, the benefits mean Trickster is still a very good choice over a standard rogue and - if you're willing to sacrifice some dps for more hardiness - a solid choice over Assassin or Streetfighter.

 

At this point from the rough build above I'd drop the dagger entirely and just use dual swords. The rest can pretty much remain as is.

 

It ends up quite similar to the Transcendent multiclass but with Crippling Strike instead of Soul Annihilation, Repulsive Visage instead of Secret Horrors and Persistent Distraction instead of Phantom Foes. A bit tankier but losing out on the SA spamming. I imagine the overall damage output is very similar but with much less micromanagement.

[Takkik]

you loose SA spamming but win wound attack spamming (depanding if you take shatered pillar or not).

 

You should take the special shield that act as an offhand weapon : You have both bonus of shield and dual weilding (you can take both weapon style), the shield give you extra chance for wound and riposte.

 

displacement and mirror image deflection don't stack but other effect yes, no? (for panic situation).

Edited June 29, 2018 by Takkik

[knownastherat]

Actives do not stack, passives do, 1 active and X passives do. At least in my understanding, corrections welcome.

 

What other effects? Like Reflex bonus from Weapon and Shield style with the bonus from Llengraths' Displacement? I believe so as it's 1 active and 1 passive.

[Takkik]

Llengrath spell : +10 Deflection, +20 Reflex, 30% of incoming Hits converted to Grazes (Deflection or Reflex) for 45.0 sec

I think only the deflection get replaced by mirror image (30), but as soon mirror image get under 10, llengrath +10 deflection will be the active one. I always understood it like that but haven't tested these 2 spells.

[knownastherat]

I got it now, and it is correct. Only Deflection gets replaced by Mirror Image and in case Mirror Image expires before Llengrath +10 Deflection from Llengrath will still be active. Just tested it. 

[grasida]

They should still be able to get to a pretty solid level of tankiness! Check out tuotilio’s palm, the small shield you can buy in neketaka. That can give a monk up to 28 deflection if you stack wounds. It will give less with a shattered pillar, but spamming primary attacks works really well with that shield, since it lets you have all the advantages of dual wielding and a shield without suffering too much from the lower base damage of the shield bash. Even without the +10 deflection from the balanced shield enchant, you should reach very solid levels of deflection and excellent levels in other defenses.

 

And if you do get overwhelmed in melee, you have access to both blade turning and ryngrim’s repulsive visage. Also remember that mirrored image is way better for tricksters than for wizards, since it only costs one guile out of your whole pool instead being of stuck at twice per encounter and competing with other spells. That means tricksters can freely recast it if the bonus diminishes, while wizards basically can’t.

[knownastherat]

Good point about the cost of Mirror Image for Trickster, however, for the same cost Trickster could full attack with Crippling Strike for example so it essentially comes down to playstyle/priorities. I prefer the notion that best defense is a good offense so I tend to focus on doing as much damage as fast as possible since if it works no defense is needed. 

 

Still, Trickster gets Mirror Image on level up for free so it's pretty good regardless of other considerations. IMO they did not even need to boost the sneak attack damage but I will not complain about the change. Go Tricksters! 

[grasida]

That’s true about crippling strike, but for a multi class with shattered pillar specifically, that doesn’t matter so much since crippling strike won’t build wounds. You’re totally focused on actives from monk, so you’re free to spend guile only on escape and illusion spells.

 

Actually what looks really broken on the 1.2 trickster is 1 guile cost ryngrim’s repulsive visage. A persistent save or lose aura that also reduces enemy healing and max health and can be kept up indefinitely is way, way better than 10% weapon damage and more uses of rogue powers.

[nostalchic]

Looks like there is an interesting build here somewhere. Crippling Strike (and/or it's upgrades) could even just be kept for a once-off early hit on a high priority target and you'd still have plenty of guile to use for the Illusion skills (mostly Visage and one of the buffs for when you need it).

 

It seems very much like a Trickster Monk multi-class can go hard with damage from the Monk side with some really useful buffs and debuffs on the Rogue side. Add in the utility of Escape which you get out of the gate and you have a very fast and quite tanky high DPS character.

[KDubya]

I'd go with dagger in the offhand and fist in the main. At least on one weapon set any way. It'd let you activiate the dagger modal for more deflection while still having one fist for the better dps.

[Takkik]

That’s true about crippling strike, but for a multi class with shattered pillar specifically, that doesn’t matter so much since crippling strike won’t build wounds. You’re totally focused on actives from monk, so you’re free to spend guile only on escape and illusion spells.

 

Actually what looks really broken on the 1.2 trickster is 1 guile cost ryngrim’s repulsive visage. A persistent save or lose aura that also reduces enemy healing and max health and can be kept up indefinitely is way, way better than 10% weapon damage and more uses of rogue powers.

Wait, shattered pillar build wounds from melee attacks no? so a crippling strike with a melee weapon should build wounds? (or it changed?). But you're right that the good part of the combo is that you can use monk wounds abilities, and repulsive visage allow you to trigger all rogue dmg bonus.

[grasida]

Shattered pillar only generates wounds from normal attacks since 1.1. Perhaps there are some special cases, but I specifically tested crippling strike and soul annihilation, and neither of them generated wounds for a shattered pillar monk.

 

I'd go with dagger in the offhand and fist in the main. At least on one weapon set any way. It'd let you activiate the dagger modal for more deflection while still having one fist for the better dps.

 

Why a dagger instead of tuotilio's palm? The shield should deal fairly comparable damage while you're hitting with it at all, which you can often avoid due to spamming torment's reach, and gives much better defenses.

[Takkik]

OMG... I haven't tested monk/shattered pillar for some time but this change just kill the subclass (and perhaps the class) for me. Forcing player to auto attack... I find auto attack boring... that why I just can't play a cipher without mc it with a martial class. I can understand they stopped wound attacks to generate wounds back, but all abilities... Well, I hope they will not do the samething with cipher and focus (that would simplify my choice of classes).

 

so why even take shattered pillar? Does riposte generate some wounds? if you build a high defense build, you could perhaps try the dance ability.

[grasida]

I haven’t tested riposte. What I want to know is whether attacks procced from swift flurry and heartbeat drumming can generate wounds. That could still lead to constant ability spam for shattered pillars.

 

It’s still a strong class. And it goes well with something like trickster that has a lot of melee support, but doesn’t necessarily want to use its resources on attack abilities.

[KDubya]

Shattered pillar only generates wounds from normal attacks since 1.1. Perhaps there are some special cases, but I specifically tested crippling strike and soul annihilation, and neither of them generated wounds for a shattered pillar monk.

 

I'd go with dagger in the offhand and fist in the main. At least on one weapon set any way. It'd let you activiate the dagger modal for more deflection while still having one fist for the better dps.

 

Why a dagger instead of tuotilio's palm? The shield should deal fairly comparable damage while you're hitting with it at all, which you can often avoid due to spamming torment's reach, and gives much better defenses.

 

A dagger would hit harder and faster than the shield and benefit from two weapon style. You'd only switch to it when you needed the extra deflection, which I'd think would be rarely since the illusion spells will generate so much. You'd use fists most of the time.

 

A dagger does 10-14 base while the shield does 8-10 and your fists do 16.5 average per hit (I forget the range) 

 

To generate the three wounds needed for Torments you'd probably have to auto attack two or three times, the glory days of perpetual monk abilities are gone  

[grasida]

The shield benefits from both dual wield and weapon and shield styles and attacks as fast as a dagger. The only thing you lose from it is a little damage, and remember that the dagger modal has a damage penalty too. And you get a lot more defense in return.

 

Also, if you use an attack cycle like fist, shield, fist, torment’s reach (the next attack will be fist because torment’s reach will replace the shield bash) the shield will only account for 1/4 of your total attacks. So the defensive gain even further outweighs the loss in damage, since you only occasionally attack with the shield.

[mosspit]

Yes, if im not wrong Tuotilo's Palm also benefits from Transcendent's Suffering based on what I checked last. It is deceivingly good as a offhand for a Monk.

[dunehunter]

Yes, if im not wrong Tuotilo's Palm also benefits from Transcendent's Suffering based on what I checked last. It is deceivingly good as a offhand for a Monk.

It’s 100% designed for monk, other class will find it gimped to use.

[grasida]

Actually, monastic unarmed training enables scaling on tuotillio’s palm. I haven’t really tested it all that much beyond seeing that you do get penetration, accuracy damage from it.

[mosspit]

 

Yes, if im not wrong Tuotilo's Palm also benefits from Transcendent's Suffering based on what I checked last. It is deceivingly good as a offhand for a Monk.

It’s 100% designed for monk, other class will find it gimped to use.

 

 

Right. I wonder why I clearly specified the case of monk in my post, in a thread for rogue / monk *rolls eyes*

[Redicular]

just a reminder, modals are considered actives, don't stack with those spells