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Does anyone think the Kahanga are actually good for Deadfire?


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Besides continuing the Caste System (starving Roparu), Prize-Share (aka Communism and more starving Roparu), and likely absorbing all the local Huana tribes (ending tribal autonomy just the same), the Kahanga are also too weak to rid Deadfire of slavers and pirates. 

 

Am I missing something that would make the Kahanga a better choice for Deadfire's Huana over Ruatai or Valians?  

Edited by cyberpunker
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So better a weak central Huana ruler ending tribal autonomy and preserving the Caste System and Prize Share, than a Ruatai or Valian ending them right?  Sorry I don't see that as a good reason.  And the Kahanga probably won't change anything, they made their whole stance on not preserving Huana culture, even the bad parts.  

Edited by cyberpunker
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All of the factions have huge drawbacks and just few good things about them.
Deadfire is a ****ty place to live, just like most of real world is.

But yea I disslike Huana the most, their caste system is worse than slavery. They also have ridiculous believes and traditions, that prevent any real progress of their society. Dismanteling their "empire" is a mercy kill.
Also they enslaved a dragon and put him under their biggest city, how dumb is that?
Not that other factions are much better though.
 

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rdc are only willing to fight slaver and fampyr on their own after control ukaizo and deadfire

and huana do the same in mission and end game slide

so better than rdc was never hard for any ending other than Alvari one

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I could wax arguments about how Huana society is actually changing for good and how it is their right to evolve on their own pace, but ain't gonna. Instead, again -

 

It. is. their. home. 

 

All the others are occupants. Occupants cannot be good by the very definition. It's really very simple. 

Edited by bugarup
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It almost seems like you consider communism a negative?

 

Their prize-share system is deeply flawed. The whole culture is deeply flawed and the caste system is horrific. At the best of times, it seems to work relatively well, but this is not the best of times. However, they are the indigenous people. It is their land, this is beyond question. Now we as players see things rather differently but the Huana, for all their faults are one of the more sympathetic factions. But that is due to perspective one can gleam from being outside Eora. What has colonialism and imperialism wrought in our world? The RDC with their "White man's burden"-arguments, the VTC with their "East India Trading Company"-shtick. We have external knowledge about how these things have a very good chance of going.

 

In the end, trying to curb those colonialistic&imperialistic ambitions is work done to prevent Deadfire from turning into the Middle-east of Eora.

 

But honestly, this was probably the best aspect of the game. All the factions are pretty horrible.

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I could wax arguments about how Huana society is actually changing for good and how its their right to evolve on their own pace, but ain't gonna. Instead, again -

 

It. is. their. home. 

 

All the others are occupants. Occupants cannot be good by the very definition. It's really very simple. 

 

Their home is only Nekataka.  As I recall, Tikawara, Port Maje, and other places are not their home.  Poko Kahara Huana disdain the Kahanga.  So your argument that it is the Kahanga's home does not make sense.  The Kahanga become occupants of all other Huana in that case.  

 

The Huana have a right to evolve at a faster pace than what the Kahanga can bring imo.  And yes, that does mean all factions are flawed.

 

But I see the Kahanga as the worst.  Well, second to the Aeldys Principi of course.  At least the Furrante Principi make Deadfire habitable and allow for foreign commerce.  

Edited by cyberpunker
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It almost seems like you consider communism a negative?

 

Their prize-share system is deeply flawed. The whole culture is deeply flawed and the caste system is horrific. At the best of times, it seems to work relatively well, but this is not the best of times. However, they are the indigenous people. It is their land, this is beyond question. Now we as players see things rather differently but the Huana, for all their faults are one of the more sympathetic factions. But that is due to perspective one can gleam from being outside Eora. What has colonialism and imperialism wrought in our world? The RDC with their "White man's burden"-arguments, the VTC with their "East India Trading Company"-shtick. We have external knowledge about how these things have a very good chance of going.

 

In the end, trying to curb those colonialistic&imperialistic ambitions is work done to prevent Deadfire from turning into the Middle-east of Eora.

 

But honestly, this was probably the best aspect of the game. All the factions are pretty horrible.

faction are definitely best part of the deadfire

even fnv require way more dialogue to setup just ncr

reading way less dialogue in deadfire can already setup 4 faction even better than ncr

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I seem to also remember the Kahanga and the Wahaki being at odds.  Telling Tanako that you want to bring the Wahaki in line for the Kahanga is enough to make him give you the Conch for example.  The Kahanga's idea of an alliance just means the Wahaki accepting Kahanga suzerainty. 

 

Basically these are the reasons why I do not see any good argument for the Kahanga.  The assertions that "it is their home" does not make sense because the Kahanga are seeking to dominate all other Huana too, just like the Valians and Ruatai.  It is not their home in Port Maje, but I doubt the Kahanga care much either.  

I could wax arguments about how Huana society is actually changing for good and how its their right to evolve on their own pace, but ain't gonna. Instead, again -

 

It. is. their. home. 

 

All the others are occupants. Occupants cannot be good by the very definition. It's really very simple. 

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If you want to argue against the Kahanga in favor of Rautai or VTC, you have to successfully argue that colonialism isn't terrible. Which would be pretty difficult to argue given how badly it has usually turned out historically, leading to widespread oppression, exploitation, murder, discrimination, and leaving long term scars even after the colonial powers leave. 

 

The historically demonstrated evils of colonialism are far worse than the deficits of Huana society. And there is plenty of evidence in game that the Rautai and VTC will be just as bad as real world colonial powers. 

 

However if someone wants to make a case that the Indian caste system is worse than things like the British causing or amplifying famines leading to the deaths of millions, that would at least be a pretty interesting argument!

 

EDIT: To address the title of the thread, no I don't think the Kahango are 'good' for the Deadfire, just not as bad as the other two (this is ignoring the main plot, VTC Castol (animancy research) and Rautai (overall organization) could possibly be better at dealing with the wheel-smashing crisis). 

Edited by aimlessgun
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I could wax arguments about how Huana society is actually changing for good and how it is their right to evolve on their own pace, but ain't gonna. Instead, again -

 

It. is. their. home. 

 

All the others are occupants. Occupants cannot be good by the very definition. It's really very simple. 

I agree with this . 

 

Thats one thing I hated about the others factions . Oh you gotta evolve !!! On what or whose authority ? 

 

In the real world , I always wondered what would've happen if some X didn't bring their ass to Y . we will never know ! cose some idiots with their elitist ideas came and shoved down their ideas of 'cultures and evolving ' . Urgh...

 

Yes the huana aren't perfect . But I still go for them . 

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I'll bet ye've got all sorts o' barmy questions! (She mimics your heroic stance) Greetin's, I have some questions... can ye tell me about this place? Who's the Lady o' Pain? I'm lookin' fer the magic Girdle of Swank Iron, have ye seen it? Do ye know where a portal ta the 2,817th Plane o' the Abyss might be? Do ye know where the Holy Flamin' Frost-Brand Gronk-Slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' Woundin' an' Returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-Out-Yer-Bum is?

 

Elderly Hive Dweller

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Is the caste system and price-share really that bad of a system? Remember, what we see in the gullet isn't the norm, it's come about as a result of the massive population and the Roparu being isolated in their own section of the city. There's no sign of the Roparu starving or being left with rotten food in any of the tribal settlements. On the contrary, they're guaranteed sustenance so long as there's enough to go around. Sure they're the designated victims of starvation if there's a famine, but realistically that's going to be the case for the lower class anywhere in the world. It's definitely not an ideal system, but they probably have a better deal than the average peasant in the Old Empires.

 

I'd also like to point out that there's a considerable difference between one tribe holding loose sovereignty over the others and a foreign power conquering the region and imposing it's culture and values on the natives.

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I could wax arguments about how Huana society is actually changing for good and how its their right to evolve on their own pace, but ain't gonna. Instead, again -

 

It. is. their. home. 

 

All the others are occupants. Occupants cannot be good by the very definition. It's really very simple. 

 

Their home is only Nekataka.  As I recall, Tikawara, Port Maje, and other places are not their home.  Poko Kahara Huana disdain the Kahanga.  So your argument that it is the Kahanga's home does not make sense.  The Kahanga become occupants of all other Huana in that case.  

 

The Huana have a right to evolve at a faster pace than what the Kahanga can bring imo.  And yes, that does mean all factions are flawed.

 

But I see the Kahanga as the worst.  Well, second to the Aeldys Principi of course.  At least the Furrante Principi make Deadfire habitable and allow for foreign commerce.  

 

The Kahanga are the only tribe that has made any progress at uniting the others. If there was a different Huana faction that had a leg up, then it might be a different story. And the other islands are more their home than they are home to the VTC or RDC. Those factions aren't even bothering to settle, much- they're just robbing the islands.

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role-playing aside, they're the only non-colonial force in the Deadfire so yeah they're good. whether they unify the tribes or not is irrelevant. supporting the Kahanga is the only way to support the Huana's right to self-determination. 
 

Edited by topologista
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I'm with the OP. They treated a huge chunk of their population like **** and allowed slavery to continue on due to an easily exploited technicality. As for "this is our home" the RDC people remind the watcher that they too have Ukaizo as their ancestral home land. It would be like the US putting up trading posts in the UK and then making a mad dash for Camelot (which lets face it, is only a model). . .assuming most Americans could trace their linage back to Briton. . .

 

In any case. All the factions have issues. I think the least of the evils is Castol's VT. Yeah, he pulled some **** with that whole slave thing, but that is one thing. He isn't in it for profit. He wants to make the world a better place. Atsura may or may not want to make one or more places better (who the **** knows what he thinks), but Castol is a visionary first and businessman second. I don't care for the idea of exploiting the land and people, but he isn't using slash-and-burn methods. He is planning for well into the future. Now, the other person (the Governor), she. . .would strip mine the Deadfire and all but literally enslave (if not literally enslave) the locals.

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Kahanga are only good if you are not a Roparu (which is the majority of the people). Their economic system and cultural beliefs put so much pressure and its so unfair to the average Huana that i decided to finish them, killing the queen. Both the colonial forces, imo, are "less bad" than Kahanga, but i decided to help the Rautai mostly because i think they are more suited to lead Deadfire into becoming a true power to face external threats, and their people are basically the same, separated just by cultural aspects that may be fixed through non violent means, such as assimilation and education.

 

There's a moment when the old has to die, and i felt that Kahanga habits just won't survive the test of time on their own (specially because their power comes from an imprisoned dragon), so an unified nation with their rautai brothers would cause more good than harm, in the long run.

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Kahanga are only good if you are not a Roparu (which is the majority of the people). Their economic system and cultural beliefs put so much pressure and its so unfair to the average Huana that i decided to finish them, killing the queen. Both the colonial forces, imo, are "less bad" than Kahanga, but i decided to help the Rautai mostly because i think they are more suited to lead Deadfire into becoming a true power to face external threats, and their people are basically the same, separated just by cultural aspects that may be fixed through non violent means, such as assimilation and education.

 

There's a moment when the old has to die, and i felt that Kahanga habits just won't survive the test of time on their own (specially because their power comes from an imprisoned dragon), so an unified nation with their rautai brothers would cause more good than harm, in the long run.

I actually was going to do the RDC quest over the VT because I felt they had something of a right to the land and their people were more closely related. . .Until I was ordered to take party in mass murder. Had they said "sneak in and kill the Queen" I'd be like "This is wrong blah blah blah okay fine." But carpet bombing an entire civilian district? No.

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Kahanga are only good if you are not a Roparu (which is the majority of the people). Their economic system and cultural beliefs put so much pressure and its so unfair to the average Huana that i decided to finish them, killing the queen. Both the colonial forces, imo, are "less bad" than Kahanga, but i decided to help the Rautai mostly because i think they are more suited to lead Deadfire into becoming a true power to face external threats, and their people are basically the same, separated just by cultural aspects that may be fixed through non violent means, such as assimilation and education.

 

There's a moment when the old has to die, and i felt that Kahanga habits just won't survive the test of time on their own (specially because their power comes from an imprisoned dragon), so an unified nation with their rautai brothers would cause more good than harm, in the long run.

those roparu will simply die before kahanga rebuild neketaka

before that only strong ones survive the long migration escaping slaver and pirate

but gellet give weaker one a chance

just like how every other big city works

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I tend to favor the RDC's idea of empire over the VTC's brighter world mostly because of the role of the Huana in it. 

The RDC wants to make them farmers, and soldiers. In doing so, it'll produce a food surplus, and a modern army that's more likely to keep them alive (until Rauatai goes to war...)

The VTC wants to bribe tribal officials, and offer laborers coin, so they'll feed and gorge themselves on Valian imports and luxuries. Profit!

 

While it's good not to understate the evils of empire, Atsura's vision of the Deadfire is at least full of well-fed, well-armed natives. That...forgives a lot.

 

While the role of the Kahangas can be greatly expanded by the Watcher's actions, the fact remains that they have no idea that their people are being enslaved, how their watershapers are empowered, or that the pirates are feeding and recruiting their plebs. It's a hard sell to make that look like legitimate rule. Although, of course, YMMV. 

Edited by Parasol_Syndicate
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Magran's fire casts light in Dark Places...

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those roparu will simply die before kahanga rebuild neketaka

 

 

before that only strong ones survive the long migration escaping slaver and pirate

but gellet give weaker one a chance

just like how every other big city works

 

Where I live people in cities are encouraged to participate in the economy to the extent their talent and hard work allows them. :blink:

 

The main reason I prefer not to choose between outsiders is that the Huana themselves should make this choice. Who am I to make it for them?

Edited by Celan
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those roparu will simply die before kahanga rebuild neketaka

 

 

before that only strong ones survive the long migration escaping slaver and pirate

but gellet give weaker one a chance

just like how every other big city works

 

Where I live people in cities are encouraged to participate in the economy to the extent their talent and hard work allows them. :blink:

 

The main reason I prefer not to choose between outsiders is that the Huana themselves should make this choice. Who am I to make it for them?

 

modern city still have millions struggle in poverty

the other outsiders already choose

so why not the outsider control by player

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