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Dezmeria

Alright, I am going to say it....

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As for Eder, regardless of where he was at the end of PoE1, he's not there for you- he's there for Eothas who's up and walking around.

If you met him guarding the Dawnstar Wagon in the very beginning of the game? Sure.

But he's there with you on the boat. The Steward certainly didn't carry you out of Caed Nua.  :geek:

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Again, with Serafen, I only went to Fort Deadlight in mid to late game. I got the impression that he only decided to tell you about Remaro after seeing that you can get things done

You can head to Deadlight right after Port-Maje, and he will still tell you about Remaro even though he barely knows you. The only difference between the quality of his motivation and Tekehu's is that you are okay with one character but dislike another.

 

If you want to talk about companions who don't have proper motivations to join you, look at Eder who goes back to Adyr to reunite with his parents if you don't finish his quest in the first game. Yet in Deadfire he is suddenly by your side because reasons, even though he doesn't really owe you anything.

 

He can decide that you get things done based on your initial encounter with Benweth and his head scan. And he's still 100% more suited to your real mission than Tekehu is.

 

As for Eder, regardless of where he was at the end of PoE1, he's not there for you- he's there for Eothas who's up and walking around.

 

I mean. I like Serafen in a way, but I've no clue why he is in my crew and sticking around after the whole deal with Ben & Remaro. He has... no reason. I don't know about being more suited to my mission. He doesn't seem to care about it too much.

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And he's still 100% more suited to your real mission than Tekehu is.

A random pirate is more suited to hunt a god than a godlike who is worshipped by the entire Huana society (regardless of what he thinks of it)? I like Serafen too, but come on. 

 

Nevermind that them being or not being suited for your mission has nothing to do with their motivation to join you, which is what your initial complaint was about. 

 

As for Eder, regardless of where he was at the end of PoE1, he's not there for you- he's there for Eothas who's up and walking around.

I guess his desire to settle things with Eothas gave him the power to teleport across the sea from Aedyr to Caed Nua then. Why didn't he teleport directly to the Deadfire though, if it was Eothas he was after and not you? 

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And he's still 100% more suited to your real mission than Tekehu is.

A random pirate is more suited to hunt a god than a godlike who is worshipped by the entire Huana society (regardless of what he thinks of it)? I like Serafen too, but come on. 

 

Nevermind that them being or not being suited for your mission has nothing to do with their motivation to join you, which is what your initial complaint was about. 

 

As for Eder, regardless of where he was at the end of PoE1, he's not there for you- he's there for Eothas who's up and walking around.

I guess his desire to settle things with Eothas gave him the power to teleport across the sea from Aedyr to Caed Nua then. Why didn't he teleport directly to the Deadfire though, if it was Eothas he was after and not you? 

 

What does Tekehu being an Ondra godlike have to do with chasing Eothas, something he expresses absolutely no interest in? Someone who actually knows ships is pretty important for a ship's crew.

 

I was complaining that there was no good reason to recruit him. His motivation is part of that, his suitability is another.

 

As far as timeline for Eder, I can't comment since in my game he was in Dyrford.

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I'm not crazy about aquaman...

Now I wish his skin were more of an orange and green color. :-(

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Again, with Serafen, I only went to Fort Deadlight in mid to late game. I got the impression that he only decided to tell you about Remaro after seeing that you can get things done.

 

And if I have to twist this much to make Tekehu's story seem plausible, that is bad writing- or bad quest design. If, as people keep saying, you're supposed to go to the palace on a beeline, then the rest of the city should have been gated off until you did.

 

So, you are running around, doing quests randomly and as much out of order as you can in a game, where every reviewer mentioned necessity to follow the plot to keep it coherent, and you are surprised something does not make enough sense?! 

 

PoE was designed (from the beginning) to give you maximum freedom in a gameplay (so, if you want to test your skills you can do it ignoring everything but fighting and selected quests), but plot  was very strict and demanding of attention from the first game - one misstep and you loose important pieces of story. Same in PoE2: you want to explore and shoot things - go ahead, but if you follow the plot - you do it in a scripted order or loose the plot line. If I have to explain why your Watcher is supposed to report back to the second in command of the Huana nation (yes, the Prince) after said Watcher accepted and finished the task Prince gave him - I do not see why any kind of motivation or role-playing in general might be important to you at all.

 

Not sure why am doing Captain Obvious here, either, since all your complains are exactly as Yria  said: you like character - you do not care about why s/he with you, you do not like character - everything is "wrong" in the story.

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So, you are running around, doing quests randomly and as much out of order as you can in a game, where every reviewer mentioned necessity to follow the plot to keep it coherent, and you are surprised something does not make enough sense?! 

 

PoE was designed (from the beginning) to give you maximum freedom in a gameplay (so, if you want to test your skills you can do it ignoring everything but fighting and selected quests), but plot  was very strict and demanding of attention from the first game - one misstep and you loose important pieces of story. Same in PoE2: you want to explore and shoot things - go ahead, but if you follow the plot - you do it in a scripted order or loose the plot line. If I have to explain why your Watcher is supposed to report back to the second in command of the Huana nation (yes, the Prince) after said Watcher accepted and finished the task Prince gave him - I do not see why any kind of motivation or role-playing in general might be important to you at all.

 

Not sure why am doing Captain Obvious here, either, since all your complains are exactly as Yria  said: you like character - you do not care about why s/he with you, you do not like character - everything is "wrong" in the story.

 

So you depend on reviewers to tell you how to play a game instead of just... you know... playing the game? Besides, I consider the game forcing me to go to Periki's Overlook and not gating off the guild hall as telling me it's fine to go there. So maybe stop apologizing for the game having poor quest design, since you seem to agree it has?

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Again, with Serafen, I only went to Fort Deadlight in mid to late game. I got the impression that he only decided to tell you about Remaro after seeing that you can get things done.

 

And if I have to twist this much to make Tekehu's story seem plausible, that is bad writing- or bad quest design. If, as people keep saying, you're supposed to go to the palace on a beeline, then the rest of the city should have been gated off until you did.

 

So, you are running around, doing quests randomly and as much out of order as you can in a game, where every reviewer mentioned necessity to follow the plot to keep it coherent, and you are surprised something does not make enough sense?! 

 

PoE was designed (from the beginning) to give you maximum freedom in a gameplay (so, if you want to test your skills you can do it ignoring everything but fighting and selected quests), but plot  was very strict and demanding of attention from the first game - one misstep and you loose important pieces of story. Same in PoE2: you want to explore and shoot things - go ahead, but if you follow the plot - you do it in a scripted order or loose the plot line. If I have to explain why your Watcher is supposed to report back to the second in command of the Huana nation (yes, the Prince) after said Watcher accepted and finished the task Prince gave him - I do not see why any kind of motivation or role-playing in general might be important to you at all.

 

Not sure why am doing Captain Obvious here, either, since all your complains are exactly as Yria  said: you like character - you do not care about why s/he with you, you do not like character - everything is "wrong" in the story.

 

Sorry have to say it, this is the most stupid apology for bad quest design. Before i play the game i am supposed to look up a rewiewer, to tell me in wich order i should do quests?

No, this is not how good quest design works, ever. :banghead:

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Again, with Serafen, I only went to Fort Deadlight in mid to late game. I got the impression that he only decided to tell you about Remaro after seeing that you can get things done.

 

And if I have to twist this much to make Tekehu's story seem plausible, that is bad writing- or bad quest design. If, as people keep saying, you're supposed to go to the palace on a beeline, then the rest of the city should have been gated off until you did.

 

So, you are running around, doing quests randomly and as much out of order as you can in a game, where every reviewer mentioned necessity to follow the plot to keep it coherent, and you are surprised something does not make enough sense?! 

 

PoE was designed (from the beginning) to give you maximum freedom in a gameplay (so, if you want to test your skills you can do it ignoring everything but fighting and selected quests), but plot  was very strict and demanding of attention from the first game - one misstep and you loose important pieces of story. Same in PoE2: you want to explore and shoot things - go ahead, but if you follow the plot - you do it in a scripted order or loose the plot line. If I have to explain why your Watcher is supposed to report back to the second in command of the Huana nation (yes, the Prince) after said Watcher accepted and finished the task Prince gave him - I do not see why any kind of motivation or role-playing in general might be important to you at all.

 

Not sure why am doing Captain Obvious here, either, since all your complains are exactly as Yria  said: you like character - you do not care about why s/he with you, you do not like character - everything is "wrong" in the story.

 

Sorry have to say it, this is the most stupid apology for bad quest design. Before i play the game i am supposed to look up a rewiewer, to tell me in wich order i should do quests?

No, this is not how good quest design works, ever. :banghead:

 

It's not bad quest design when you and your character are explicitly told, in-game, that certain actions/quests are highly important and thus should be prioritized, only to have the warning be ignored because you want to barge into every house in Neketaka before doing the time-critical thing you were there for in the first place.

 

You're free to sail around willy-nilly discovering the deadfire on your own, randomly barging into every house on your way and ignoring the role-playing aspect beyond the conversational level. Nothing wrong with playing the game like that, since it was obviously designed with that option in mind; However, complaining that this derails the plot is ridiculous, since you're the one who chose to derail it in the first place. There's plot everywhere, and most of it is well-connected. Barging through without any care for plot and complaining about it's "lack" afterwards is rather petulant: you can't eat your cake and still have it as well.

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So, you are running around, doing quests randomly and as much out of order as you can in a game, where every reviewer mentioned necessity to follow the plot to keep it coherent, and you are surprised something does not make enough sense?! 

 

PoE was designed (from the beginning) to give you maximum freedom in a gameplay (so, if you want to test your skills you can do it ignoring everything but fighting and selected quests), but plot  was very strict and demanding of attention from the first game - one misstep and you loose important pieces of story. Same in PoE2: you want to explore and shoot things - go ahead, but if you follow the plot - you do it in a scripted order or loose the plot line. If I have to explain why your Watcher is supposed to report back to the second in command of the Huana nation (yes, the Prince) after said Watcher accepted and finished the task Prince gave him - I do not see why any kind of motivation or role-playing in general might be important to you at all.

 

Not sure why am doing Captain Obvious here, either, since all your complains are exactly as Yria  said: you like character - you do not care about why s/he with you, you do not like character - everything is "wrong" in the story.

 

So you depend on reviewers to tell you how to play a game instead of just... you know... playing the game? Besides, I consider the game forcing me to go to Periki's Overlook and not gating off the guild hall as telling me it's fine to go there. So maybe stop apologizing for the game having poor quest design, since you seem to agree it has?

 

 

Where did you find a hint of apology for the game in any of my post? I'll try to repeat - last time, don't worry - just to wrap the discussion up. There is no need to rely on reviewers. My first hand experience with PoE1 taught me about 2 things:

1. You have full complete freedom of gameplay.

2. But the plot line is very strict and do not allow deviations.

 

There is no problem with it at all: plot is very clear in it's objectives. So much so, that you in the very post above complain about "being forced to do something". Yet, you in the same time complain about "not being forced enough and allowed to go astray". Choose one or the other.

When you play PoE you make a choice - follow the plot and see the story as it is intended, or go on your own, ignoring every hint and direction. It's all up to you! If you wish to read random chapters in some book - it's your right to do so, but stop complaining the plot does not follow your whims. In this genre your character is supposed to follow the plot, not the other way around. Try Skyrim if above sounds too strict for you, might be more to your liking.

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It's not bad quest design when you and your character are explicitly told, in-game, that certain actions/quests are highly important and thus should be prioritized, only to have the warning be ignored because you want to barge into every house in Neketaka before doing the time-critical thing you were there for in the first place.

 

 

You're free to sail around willy-nilly discovering the deadfire on your own, randomly barging into every house on your way and ignoring the role-playing aspect beyond the conversational level. Nothing wrong with playing the game like that, since it was obviously designed with that option in mind; However, complaining that this derails the plot is ridiculous, since you're the one who chose to derail it in the first place. There's plot everywhere, and most of it is well-connected. Barging through without any care for plot and complaining about it's "lack" afterwards is rather petulant: you can't eat your cake and still have it as well.

Again, you're forced to go through Periki's Overlook. Forced. So no, your assertion that people ignore the game to go do their own thing and somehow this is "wrong" is just silly. All this besides the fact that Clario simply tells you that if you want to do business in the Deadfire, you'll need to see Onekaza. There's no particular urgency in that.

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It's not bad quest design when you and your character are explicitly told, in-game, that certain actions/quests are highly important and thus should be prioritized, only to have the warning be ignored because you want to barge into every house in Neketaka before doing the time-critical thing you were there for in the first place.

 

 

You're free to sail around willy-nilly discovering the deadfire on your own, randomly barging into every house on your way and ignoring the role-playing aspect beyond the conversational level. Nothing wrong with playing the game like that, since it was obviously designed with that option in mind; However, complaining that this derails the plot is ridiculous, since you're the one who chose to derail it in the first place. There's plot everywhere, and most of it is well-connected. Barging through without any care for plot and complaining about it's "lack" afterwards is rather petulant: you can't eat your cake and still have it as well.

Again, you're forced to go through Periki's Overlook. Forced. So no, your assertion that people ignore the game to go do their own thing and somehow this is "wrong" is just silly. All this besides the fact that Clario simply tells you that if you want to do business in the Deadfire, you'll need to see Onekaza. There's no particular urgency in that.

 

To go through Periki's Overlook...Where are you forced to go into the Watershaper's Guild on your way to the palace? And I found it urgent because we thought she might have information on where Eothas would be going next?(It's been a bit since I played that part of the game so correct me if I'm wrong.)

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Why make us go through there at all if you're supposed to beeline to the palace? Other areas are gated off.

 

I feel this is really straining at an explanation for why Tekehu's recruitment should make sense. Why not just say you like him and be done with it.

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It's not bad quest design when you and your character are explicitly told, in-game, that certain actions/quests are highly important and thus should be prioritized, only to have the warning be ignored because you want to barge into every house in Neketaka before doing the time-critical thing you were there for in the first place.

 

 

You're free to sail around willy-nilly discovering the deadfire on your own, randomly barging into every house on your way and ignoring the role-playing aspect beyond the conversational level. Nothing wrong with playing the game like that, since it was obviously designed with that option in mind; However, complaining that this derails the plot is ridiculous, since you're the one who chose to derail it in the first place. There's plot everywhere, and most of it is well-connected. Barging through without any care for plot and complaining about it's "lack" afterwards is rather petulant: you can't eat your cake and still have it as well.

Again, you're forced to go through Periki's Overlook. Forced. So no, your assertion that people ignore the game to go do their own thing and somehow this is "wrong" is just silly. All this besides the fact that Clario simply tells you that if you want to do business in the Deadfire, you'll need to see Onekaza. There's no particular urgency in that.

 

You're not forced to go through Periki's Overlook: my first playthrough had my watcher visiting the sacred stair for Xoti and Eder's questline by way of the gullet/brass citadel (don't remember which, though i think it was gullet) first. He headed to the castle from there, never touching Periki's overlook. He also saw no reason to involve an outsider in a... sensitive investigation, never entering the watershapers' guild until the crisis involving the dragon.I found Tekehu's recruitment then quite well written, without any plot butchering involved.

 

My second watcher recruited him while she investigated the gullet for prince Aruihi, which also made sense for her: he's shows interest in the investigation and was recommended by the prince.

 

But that's all a moot point: even if we were forced to go through Periki's Overlook, nobody forces you to enter the Watershaper's guild. Nobody forces you to talk to Tekehu for more than a moment. Nobody forces you to say "yes" when he asks to accompany you.

 

All that is your choice, which means you have to carry the in-game consequences: THAT'S WHY IT'S AN RPG. Sure, there're plenty of games where you can ignore the plot to do whatever the hell you wish for most of the game without throwing off said plot: Skyrim and the latest Bioware games come to mind, for example. The reason most of us love Obsidian is because they don't work like that.

 

We can either have a linear plot with gated content where we happily trudge along with limited influence in choice and action, or we can have a damn role-playing game, meaning choice and consequence is in play for most of our actions. And while it does get wonky every now and then (e.g. Serafen in Crookspur depending on his personal quest), I'm pretty glad Obsidian went with the latter.

Edited by Taevyr
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For those wondering: The areas you can visit in Neketaka are cleared by visiting an "exit" leading to them. Take Queen's Berth:

 

the northernmost exit in Queen's Berth clears Periki's, and is apparently the natural choice for most players.

 

The eastern exit clears the Brass citadel and possibly the gullet, though I'm not certain of the latter.

 

 

There's no "gating' involved. Your character chooses a certain route to head up to Serpent's crown. Since you're not yet aware of the other routes to other areas of the city, you can't just head there before finding one :rolleyes:.

Edited by Taevyr
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Again, with Serafen, I only went to Fort Deadlight in mid to late game. I got the impression that he only decided to tell you about Remaro after seeing that you can get things done.

 

And if I have to twist this much to make Tekehu's story seem plausible, that is bad writing- or bad quest design. If, as people keep saying, you're supposed to go to the palace on a beeline, then the rest of the city should have been gated off until you did.

 

So, you are running around, doing quests randomly and as much out of order as you can in a game, where every reviewer mentioned necessity to follow the plot to keep it coherent, and you are surprised something does not make enough sense?! 

 

PoE was designed (from the beginning) to give you maximum freedom in a gameplay (so, if you want to test your skills you can do it ignoring everything but fighting and selected quests), but plot  was very strict and demanding of attention from the first game - one misstep and you loose important pieces of story. Same in PoE2: you want to explore and shoot things - go ahead, but if you follow the plot - you do it in a scripted order or loose the plot line. If I have to explain why your Watcher is supposed to report back to the second in command of the Huana nation (yes, the Prince) after said Watcher accepted and finished the task Prince gave him - I do not see why any kind of motivation or role-playing in general might be important to you at all.

 

Not sure why am doing Captain Obvious here, either, since all your complains are exactly as Yria  said: you like character - you do not care about why s/he with you, you do not like character - everything is "wrong" in the story.

 

Sorry have to say it, this is the most stupid apology for bad quest design. Before i play the game i am supposed to look up a rewiewer, to tell me in wich order i should do quests?

No, this is not how good quest design works, ever. :banghead:

 

It's not bad quest design when you and your character are explicitly told, in-game, that certain actions/quests are highly important and thus should be prioritized, only to have the warning be ignored because you want to barge into every house in Neketaka before doing the time-critical thing you were there for in the first place.

 

You're free to sail around willy-nilly discovering the deadfire on your own, randomly barging into every house on your way and ignoring the role-playing aspect beyond the conversational level. Nothing wrong with playing the game like that, since it was obviously designed with that option in mind; However, complaining that this derails the plot is ridiculous, since you're the one who chose to derail it in the first place. There's plot everywhere, and most of it is well-connected. Barging through without any care for plot and complaining about it's "lack" afterwards is rather petulant: you can't eat your cake and still have it as well.

 

My main complain is

 

 

Again, with Serafen, I only went to Fort Deadlight in mid to late game. I got the impression that he only decided to tell you about Remaro after seeing that you can get things done.

 

And if I have to twist this much to make Tekehu's story seem plausible, that is bad writing- or bad quest design. If, as people keep saying, you're supposed to go to the palace on a beeline, then the rest of the city should have been gated off until you did.

 

So, you are running around, doing quests randomly and as much out of order as you can in a game, where every reviewer mentioned necessity to follow the plot.

 

 

 

 

Rewiewer, yeah.

This is by all means stupid.

You can just not playing the game and watch it on youtube. :blink:

I prefer to not spoil myself, thanks. Besides rewiewer are s**t.

 

In my first playthrough i followed the path laid out before me. So i have no problem with that. But if you don't follow the path, then some dialogues later on don't make much sense.

So if you give the player the opportunity to go wild, than it should reflected in outcomes of later quests and or companion dialogues. If it does not, it is bad quest design.

I played with the lame story companions once and never again, so i can go all wild. :biggrin:

Xoti > religious zealot and unbearable accent

Serafen > wannabe cool midget pirate

Fishboy > stinks like fish

Edér > moronic simpleton and bully

Aloth > elfy

Bird > butthurt bird

Maja > meh nympho

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For those wondering: The areas you can visit in Neketaka are cleared by visiting an "exit" leading to them. Take Queen's Berth:

 

the northernmost exit in Queen's Berth clears Periki's, and is apparently the natural choice for most players.

 

The eastern exit clears the Brass citadel and possibly the gullet, though I'm not certain of the latter.

 

 

There's no "gating' involved. Your character chooses a certain route to head up to Serpent's crown. Since you're not yet aware of the other routes to other areas of the city, you can't just head there before finding one :rolleyes:.

Indeed, you can't make a beeline to the palace, which supposedly is the "right" place to go in Neketaka before all others according to some here.

 

Though I accept that there can be ways of recruiting Tekehu that seem more integral to the story than mine did. I still don't see his character as suited to your task.

 

BTW I checked, the north exit opens only Periki's Overlook. The east exit opens only the Gullet and Periki's Overlook.

Edited by Celan

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For those wondering: The areas you can visit in Neketaka are cleared by visiting an "exit" leading to them. Take Queen's Berth:

 

the northernmost exit in Queen's Berth clears Periki's, and is apparently the natural choice for most players.

 

The eastern exit clears the Brass citadel and possibly the gullet, though I'm not certain of the latter.

 

 

There's no "gating' involved. Your character chooses a certain route to head up to Serpent's crown. Since you're not yet aware of the other routes to other areas of the city, you can't just head there before finding one :rolleyes:.

Indeed, you can't make a beeline to the palace, which supposedly is the "right" place to go in Neketaka before all others.

 

Though I accept that there can be ways of recruiting Tekehu that seem more integral to the story than mine did. I still don't see his character as suited to your task.

 

Of course you can't make a beeline: there's no possible route in the city that leads there without passing a main district. I myself don't really see why they had to cut off the city districts until you happen to find a route leading directly to them, but it's not harmful to my gameplay or roleplaying.

 

As for Tekehu's character, I don't disagree: He's a young, inexperienced watershaper with a superiority-inferiority complex caused by a society adoring him without having really earned said adoration. It's why he looks up to the watcher so much: someone who actually makes an impact and seems to know and control his place in the world (as if that's actually the case).

 

The prince sends him with you since he's interested and happens to be "Ngati's Chosen". He tries to owe up to that reputation as any blundering twenty-something would: by enjoying it as much as he can, and with bad choices made in good faith.

Edited by Taevyr
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