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The more we discussed here, the more I realize that the problem is not 2h weapons are underwhelming, but Full Attack abilities heavily favors dual wielding. You get higher burst damage and less recovery time, and you can turn on mainhand modal without recovery penalty if you have another light weapon in offhand, like axe/dagger, sabre/dagger.

 

Ahh, more people see the light. Good, good. Who knows, maybe one day even Obsidian will join us.

Vancian =/= per rest.

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The more we discussed here, the more I realize that the problem is not 2h weapons are underwhelming, but Full Attack abilities heavily favors dual wielding. You get higher burst damage and less recovery time, and you can turn on mainhand modal without recovery penalty if you have another light weapon in offhand, like axe/dagger, sabre/dagger.

That's been the case in PoE all along, both for auto-attacks and full attacks. It's more prominent now, maybe (haven't done the math for Deadfire yet), and there were no weapon modals.

the_ultimate.png
 

Done with Moon Godlike Wizard

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The more we discussed here, the more I realize that the problem is not 2h weapons are underwhelming, but Full Attack abilities heavily favors dual wielding. You get higher burst damage and less recovery time, and you can turn on mainhand modal without recovery penalty if you have another light weapon in offhand, like axe/dagger, sabre/dagger.

That's been the case in PoE all along, both for auto-attacks and full attacks. It's more prominent now, maybe (haven't done the math for Deadfire yet), and there were no weapon modals.

 

 

Yeah I agree, it's more prominent because everything is slower in DF than PoE 1, so the fast animation of full attack makes dual wielding even better.

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Also it was possible to hit zero recovery in PoE even without dual wielding, and full attacks were much, much more limited for every class except torments reach spamming monks. Generally there were good reasons to take each fighting style, even if uses for single weapon style were rare.

 

But the skill trees in Deadfire are just ridiculously biased in favor of dual wielding. Now, fighter, rogue, ranger and paladin all have one resource cost full attacks and monks and barbarians have two resource cost attacks that can replenish resources. The majority of high level powers like heart of fury, the ranger’s melee whirlwind, gambit and whispers of the wind are full attacks. The skald’s passive favors dual wielding. Even abilities not explicitly full attacks like resonant touch and soul annihilation add significant flat damage that gives an advantage to dual wielding. Meaning if your main role is to use active powers to deal damage with your equipped weapon, there are only a handful of builds that don’t gain a lot from dual wielding, whereas the only advantage two handers or single weapon brings is resource efficiency with limited resource primary attacks.

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Also it was possible to hit zero recovery in PoE even without dual wielding, and full attacks were much, much more limited for every class except torments reach spamming monks. Generally there were good reasons to take each fighting style, even if uses for single weapon style were rare.

 

But the skill trees in Deadfire are just ridiculously biased in favor of dual wielding. Now, fighter, rogue, ranger and paladin all have one resource cost full attacks and monks and barbarians have two resource cost attacks that can replenish resources. The majority of high level powers like heart of fury, the ranger’s melee whirlwind, gambit and whispers of the wind are full attacks. The skald’s passive favors dual wielding. Even abilities not explicitly full attacks like resonant touch and soul annihilation add significant flat damage that gives an advantage to dual wielding. Meaning if your main role is to use active powers to deal damage with your equipped weapon, there are only a handful of builds that don’t gain a lot from dual wielding, whereas the only advantage two handers or single weapon brings is resource efficiency with limited resource primary attacks.

 

Agreed, the +1 Pen loosely addresses the problem, but I don't believe it offsets:

1) the loss of buffs/attributes/powers (compared to wielding a second weapon or shield)

2) longer recovery

3) lower total damage from full attacks

4) benefits from passive abilities

 

I think 2-HWs still need a nudge on baseline damage.  

 

If this game had PvP it would settle this debate pretty quickly (for or against my position).

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I like a lot of the ideas here, especially the idea of making full attacks do special stuff for the non-DW fighting styles.

What I don't like are ideas going back to D&D adding penalties to DW or worst of all, a different penalty for mainhand vs. offhand. Anything that incentivizes tedious **** like swapping which weapon is in the offhand between fights (even if the incentive is tiny) is awful and has no place in modern game design IMO.

Edited by Answermancer
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So after the patch, there is already +1 pen. Any items requests to my mod?

Once i've unlocked a few more success i'll consider going for mods tho.

 

So i would be interested by this.

 

It could be cool to see a (or multiple) nice unique morning star and a (or multiple) nice unique poleaxe.

 

And if you could find something to mod the "maximum attack" stat for 2 handers it would be nice too ^^

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So after the patch, there is already +1 pen. Any items requests to my mod?

Once i've unlocked a few more success i'll consider going for mods tho.

 

So i would be interested by this.

 

It could be cool to see a (or multiple) nice unique morning star and a (or multiple) nice unique poleaxe.

 

And if you could find something to mod the "maximum attack" stat for 2 handers it would be nice too ^^

 

 

I'l make 3 uniques of each type. So, you can give me ideas for creating good and useful 2H items :)

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Well, let's see.

You could go with a poleaxe or a morning star that has a third type of damages that would make a polyvalent ready for all situations weapon.

You could go with a morning star that adds afflictions (so it would stack with its modal) and make it a debuff monster. You could add an effect on crit, like spreading the afflictions to ennemies around when you crit etc..

You could go with a poleaxe with engagement bonus (so it stacks and fits to the modal)+ damage bonus depending of the amount of engaged ennemies + boosts to disengagement attacks. You could throw in defense bonuses so you choose between disangagement damages bonus or defense bonus, making this poleaxe a nice alternative for a tank/offtank.

You could go to a fire greatsword, that could act like Lord Daryn Vouge , with Slash/Fire instead of Slash/Thrust, and multiple fire effects like Fire pl increase, dots, an aoe/per encounter fire ability etc...

You could go on a crit specialised 2 handers, like the sword of St Rumbald in POE1, that adds accuracy bonus, hit to crit bonus, crit damage bonus. etc.. straight crit focused single target damages.

etc...

But i think you should make a thread where you ask the advices of players for this mod. 

 

Let's keep this topic about the global balancing needed for 2 handers ^^

Edited by Veolfen
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So after the patch, there is already +1 pen. Any items requests to my mod?

 

Once i've unlocked a few more success i'll consider going for mods tho.

So i would be interested by this.

It could be cool to see a (or multiple) nice unique morning star and a (or multiple) nice unique poleaxe.

And if you could find something to mod the "maximum attack" stat for 2 handers it would be nice too ^^

 

I'l make 3 uniques of each type. So, you can give me ideas for creating good and useful 2H items :)

Greatswords

Remade Tidefall from PoE, wounding and draining with upgrade to inflict constitution affliction

Greatsword with elemental lash

Greatsword with increased pen and critical modifier, maybe crushing lash

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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I'd like to see Transmuter's Ogre fists altered in a way that they profit from Transcendent Suffering and Monastic Unarmed Training.

 

I would like to have two handed war hammers and two handed battle axes (double bladed/headed or danish/norse style would be nice even it they don't fit the Deadfire carribean theme).

 

I would like whips. They can be considered flais when it comes to proficiency, do less damage but automatically reduce will or resolve on hit. Cat o'nine tails could mechanically work like a blunderbuss: multiple smaller hits. Maybe a special enchantment that lets you flangellant yourself and raise resolve/will: perfect for monks, eh? ;)

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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So after the patch, there is already +1 pen. Any items requests to my mod?

Once i've unlocked a few more success i'll consider going for mods tho.

So i would be interested by this.

It could be cool to see a (or multiple) nice unique morning star and a (or multiple) nice unique poleaxe.

And if you could find something to mod the "maximum attack" stat for 2 handers it would be nice too ^^

 

I'l make 3 uniques of each type. So, you can give me ideas for creating good and useful 2H items :)

Greatswords

Remade Tidefall from PoE, wounding and draining with upgrade to inflict constitution affliction

Greatsword with elemental lash

Greatsword with increased pen and critical modifier, maybe crushing lash

 

 

Tidefall done.

 

 

bNr2yu9.jpg

 

 

I will upload it tomorrow.

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So after the patch, there is already +1 pen. Any items requests to my mod?

Once i've unlocked a few more success i'll consider going for mods tho.

So i would be interested by this.

It could be cool to see a (or multiple) nice unique morning star and a (or multiple) nice unique poleaxe.

And if you could find something to mod the "maximum attack" stat for 2 handers it would be nice too ^^

I'l make 3 uniques of each type. So, you can give me ideas for creating good and useful 2H items :)

Greatswords

Remade Tidefall from PoE, wounding and draining with upgrade to inflict constitution affliction

Greatsword with elemental lash

Greatsword with increased pen and critical modifier, maybe crushing lash

Tidefall done.

 

 

bNr2yu9.jpg

 

 

I will upload it tomorrow.

Nice job! Would it be possible to have a vendor in the game who sell the cool gears in PoE 1 ? And how do u design the upgrade option of tidefall?

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So after the patch, there is already +1 pen. Any items requests to my mod?

Once i've unlocked a few more success i'll consider going for mods tho.

So i would be interested by this.

It could be cool to see a (or multiple) nice unique morning star and a (or multiple) nice unique poleaxe.

And if you could find something to mod the "maximum attack" stat for 2 handers it would be nice too ^^

 

 

I'l make 3 uniques of each type. So, you can give me ideas for creating good and useful 2H items :)

 

Greatswords

Remade Tidefall from PoE, wounding and draining with upgrade to inflict constitution affliction

Greatsword with elemental lash

Greatsword with increased pen and critical modifier, maybe crushing lash

 

 

Tidefall done.

 

 

bNr2yu9.jpg

 

 

I will upload it tomorrow.

 

Beautiful.

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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So after the patch, there is already +1 pen. Any items requests to my mod?

Once i've unlocked a few more success i'll consider going for mods tho.

So i would be interested by this.

It could be cool to see a (or multiple) nice unique morning star and a (or multiple) nice unique poleaxe.

And if you could find something to mod the "maximum attack" stat for 2 handers it would be nice too ^^

I'l make 3 uniques of each type. So, you can give me ideas for creating good and useful 2H items :)

Greatswords

Remade Tidefall from PoE, wounding and draining with upgrade to inflict constitution affliction

Greatsword with elemental lash

Greatsword with increased pen and critical modifier, maybe crushing lash

Tidefall done.

 

 

bNr2yu9.jpg

 

 

I will upload it tomorrow.

Nice job! Would it be possible to have a vendor in the game who sell the cool gears in PoE 1 ? And how do u design the upgrade option of tidefall?

 

I will upload today to my mod TT1 Unique Items, on Nexus. The vendor is the Wild Mare, in Neketaka. All my items are there.

 

The upgrade is called "Formidable Blade" and is like @Veolfen asked me to do. Landing a Crit will give a chance to inflict constitution affliction (Sickened) for some time. I will decide today the % of chance and the ammount of time. Not sure yet.

Edited by TT1
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So after the patch, there is already +1 pen. Any items requests to my mod?

Once i've unlocked a few more success i'll consider going for mods tho.

So i would be interested by this.

It could be cool to see a (or multiple) nice unique morning star and a (or multiple) nice unique poleaxe.

And if you could find something to mod the "maximum attack" stat for 2 handers it would be nice too ^^

I'l make 3 uniques of each type. So, you can give me ideas for creating good and useful 2H items :)
Greatswords

Remade Tidefall from PoE, wounding and draining with upgrade to inflict constitution affliction

Greatsword with elemental lash

Greatsword with increased pen and critical modifier, maybe crushing lash

Tidefall done.

 

 

bNr2yu9.jpg

 

 

I will upload it tomorrow.

Nice job! Would it be possible to have a vendor in the game who sell the cool gears in PoE 1 ? And how do u design the upgrade option of tidefall?

I will upload today to my mod TT1 Unique Items, on Nexus. The vendor is the Wild Mare, in Neketaka. All my items are there.

 

The upgrade is called "Formidable Blade" and is like @Veolfen asked me to do. Landing a Crit will give a chance to inflict constitution affliction (Sickened) for some time. I will decide today the % of chance and the ammount of time. Not sure yet.

The Codex is the best item. 10/10

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I don't suppose there are animations in the game for something like Abydon's Hammer?

 

Because I'm still grumpy that they took away one of the coolest items ever.

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If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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