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No point in making builds right now when consumables are more op than the whole build itself


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Someone offers you either a glass of water or a glass of juice. And you expect us to choose the glass of water? I just can't seem to get your logic. 

 

If there's something wrong with the juice, then yes. Whereas you, it seems, are intent on downing the juice all the while complaining about how awful it tastes and how it'll probably make you sick. 

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Eh, but the initial statement was that it doesn't make much sense to post - or make - class builds while some mechanics of the game are very unbalanced or even break the balance (alchemy boosting decay spells for example). And so can agree to that. Posting builds usually means you show the forum some neat tricks and powerful combos or whatever clever stuff you could come up with. Very few people draw Joy or even satisfaction from posting straightforward standard stuff. But those things will change eventually and also even the cleverest idea pales when you compare it to Plague of Insects with +22 PL or a poison that does tremendous damage per tick. That takes some fun out of it. Whining or not - it's a fair point to make.

 

Good Point!

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Why even play a single player game if its just gonna be an unbalanced mess. 

 

 

Mario wouldn't be as popular today if it gave you an item that allowed you to not die from falling. In fact, no one would play it. 

 

That's not quite true. People play the steam versions of Final Fantasy 7, 8, and 9.

 

FF7

Character Booster – Find yourself stuck on a difficult section or lacking the funds to buy that vital Phoenix Down? With the Character Booster you can increase your HP, MP and Gil levels to their maximum, all with the simple click of a button, leaving you to enjoy your adventure.

 

FF8

Magic Booster

 

When Magic Booster is used, the player’s inventory of the following spells is increased by 100:

 

Cure, Cura, Curaga, Fire, Fira, Blizzard, Blizzara, Thunder, Thundara, Sleep, Blind, Silence, Berserk, Bio, Esuna, Aero, Confuse, Break, Zombie

 

This feature can be used from the launcher.

FF9

・Seven game boosters including high speed and no encounter modes.

 

 

Someone offers you either a glass of water or a glass of juice. And you expect us to choose the glass of water? I just can't seem to get your logic.

I, for one, would choose the water unless it was apple juice. I like apple juice enough to disregard my family's predisposition to diabetes.

Edited by mishona
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Eh, but the initial statement was that it doesn't make much sense to post - or make - class builds while some mechanics of the game are very unbalanced or even break the balance (alchemy boosting decay spells for example). And so can agree to that. Posting builds usually means you show the forum some neat tricks and powerful combos or whatever clever stuff you could come up with. Very few people draw Joy or even satisfaction from posting straightforward standard stuff. But those things will change eventually and also even the cleverest idea pales when you compare it to Plague of Insects with +22 PL or a poison that does tremendous damage per tick. That takes some fun out of it. Whining or not - it's a fair point to make.

 

It makes perfect sense to me. I would think the neatness of the trick stems from finding creative and imaginative ways of combining different mechanics and items and abilities to make an effective character. Clearly, spamming scroll and poison with the relevant skill maximized doesn't particularly qualify, however powerful it may be. I would think that there are plenty of other ways of building characters that are creative and imaginative, that do not involve scroll or poison spam.

 

Why would finding those draw *less* satisfication just because there is giant wheel of cheese in plain view as well? Yes, you could help yourself to a slice of that and post it here, to what I would expect the typical level of awe and admiration that stating the blindingly obvious tends to get. If there is more interesting stuff to be found, why not find joy and satisfaction in trying to find those? And surely, again, there must be more interesting stuff out there; it can't just be a dichotomy of "straightforward standard stuff" and "solidified dairy". Because if that's the only two flavours we've got (which I simply don't buy, but let's assume), then if and when Obsidian takes away the latter than straightforward and standard would be all you'd have left. In that case there'd be no joy and satisfaction to be gained from removing the cheese, and they might as well just leave it there.

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If I have to do that to be able to enjoy the game on the highest difficulty using only one character I'd dare saying that obsidian have completely failed to deliver a difficulty setting for the ppl who enjoy playing the game for its combat and mechanics rather then just the story of it, how can you not see that? Deliberately gimping yourself is the very opposite of fun. I might as well play on story mode and just never lvl up or use any unique gear, same thing just a more extreme example.

And before u say it I don't feel gimped just because I play one character. I feel like I play one character who get all the good loot and all the money to himself. The character I made is my character, the others are only companions and not my own.

The fact that soloing doesn't feel like gimping yourself doesn't change the fact that it is exactly the same principle: you are deliberately restricting yourself in order to improve your gameplay experience. There is no grand difference between leaving out party members and leaving out certain skills or consumables. The "I get all the loot and money" argument is just hogwash. There is plenty of good loot and money to go around so that's hardly much of a difference, and in any case: you control the entire party, if you want to give all the best loot to your own character and distribute whatever remains among the party.

 

Secondly, I have at no point in this thread disputed that Arcana and Alchemy are powerful (though "completely failed to deliver" is just nonsensical hyperbole). I have in fact quite explicitly not disputed this. But that is not the point. The question is not whether Obsidian screwed up or not, nor whether they will fix this at some point or not. The question is how players bothered by these issues are responding to it, and why. Because let's assume as a hypothetical that the officially released game as it stands at the current 1.1 version is it: there will be no more updates, and the option for modding doesn't exist. There are balance issues that some people, such as yourself, are clearly bothered by. As the game is it its fixed and final state, there are therefore two main options:

- make some relatively simple changes to how you play (eg. putting no points in the Alchemy skill, using poisons and potions as is) to create a more balanced and enjoyable game play experience for yourself

- whine about how the game is broken, bemoan the evil fate that has befallen you, curse the Obsidian Gods, and generally take no responsibility whatsoever for improving your own lot

 

It baffles me that anyone would go for the second option, unless a game is broken beyond fixing (which it clearly is not). Why wallow in your own victimhood if you can so easily do something about it yourself?

Well to be fair wether or not I play solo or in party is completely beside the point. The focus of this thread is on consumables and how they make class synergies feel underwhelming. How they make certain builds and even whole classes feel underwhelming.

A simple "don't put points in it" isn't good enough. Players who rely on them can still play on a lower difficulty setting and accept that maybe POTD isn't for them. Like stated before, the hardest difficulty isnt for everyone, it's a setting for those who play the game several times who want to play the game for other reasons then story. Creating clever builds for example.

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Well to be fair wether or not I play solo or in party is completely beside the point. The focus of this thread is on consumables and how they make class synergies feel underwhelming. How they make certain builds and even whole classes feel underwhelming.

A simple "don't put points in it" isn't good enough. Players who rely on them can still play on a lower difficulty setting and accept that maybe POTD isn't for them. Like stated before, the hardest difficulty isnt for everyone, it's a setting for those who play the game several times who want to play the game for other reasons then story. Creating clever builds for example.

 

 

If the aim is to create clever builds, then what are you using Arcana and Alchemy for? Clearly, given the consensus in here on how overpowered those are, any build that relies on those isn't particularly clever. 

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Well to be fair wether or not I play solo or in party is completely beside the point. The focus of this thread is on consumables and how they make class synergies feel underwhelming. How they make certain builds and even whole classes feel underwhelming.

A simple "don't put points in it" isn't good enough. Players who rely on them can still play on a lower difficulty setting and accept that maybe POTD isn't for them. Like stated before, the hardest difficulty isnt for everyone, it's a setting for those who play the game several times who want to play the game for other reasons then story. Creating clever builds for example.

 

 

If the aim is to create clever builds, then what are you using Arcana and Alchemy for? Clearly, given the consensus in here on how overpowered those are, any build that relies on those isn't particularly clever. 

 

 

The point is a simple maxed our arcana/alchemy build which can steam roll any clever build you will ever come up with removes the incentive for you to try and think of making clever builds.

 

Because in the end, what's the point of tinkering with builds and trying out different complicated ability synergies when you know it won't even be as half as effective as a simple maxed out arcana/alchemy build. 

Edited by giftmefood
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1. I have never said I want to fly anywhere, solo. I play solo exactly because in a group it's too easy for me and will be too easy for me regardless of any changes the developers will realistically make.

This implies that you play the game solo because you find it too easy otherwise.

The only thing I care about, because I use consumables, just like Empower, when there is no other way to beat an encounter, is that I will be able to continue to play the game the way I want - solo.

This implies that you want to play the game solo, but rely on consumables as crutches to get through certain encounters, and if they were to be removed/nerfed you would no longer be able to play the game the way you want - solo. 

 

Care to clear this up for me?

 

 

Sure. It was late and I was not careful with my words.

 

The difficulty is not the only reason I play solo. Admittedly, if it was not possible to solo the game, which I think is very unlikely to happen given history of the genre, I would be willing to do something like Lone Wolf from DoS, that is to play in duo. Not only the game is, almost necessarily I would say, too easy in full party for devoted players, but it really bothers me to micro-manage 4 other characters and I do not care for playing with bots handled by AI. I mean, being constantly healed by a bot, for example, diminishes the enjoyment for me in perhaps similar fashion current state consumables, which I do not advocate, for others.  

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I like consumables too but they are currently brokenly strong. I too fear that obsidian will overnerf them like they did with most gear already. But they need to tune it a bit and I hope they don't over-do it like they did with gear.

 

Arcana for example, I can't make myself play a singleclass wizard or a single class fury or even a priest because I sit there at character creation looking at their spells and skills and I think to myself "nope, nothing unique here, I can be a better spell nuker with a fighter+assassin".

The casters suffer because their best nukes wich they get very late can already be used by any class regardless of multiclassing and they will be even more lethal then if they were used by their specific caster class as a chosen spell, wich also means ud have spent a precious ability point on it (if u aren't a wizard).

To add more salt to the wounds casters have really crappy passive skills.

The most potent scrolls aren't even expensive to craft, they use very common materials that can be bought from 2 merchants in perikis.

 

Poisons kill anything unless they are immune, nothing in the game is strong enough to outlive it by far. This is sad because it cheapens the experience and I am someone who always loved playing glasscannon assassin type characters who poison their weapons. Not fun in this game at all.

 

My bold.

 

I feel exactly the same way and I have basically two options: Create another fighter/assassin nuker I will probably get bored with sooner or later or just accept the game design and roll a character I want to play and struggle. So I struggle and when I get stuck because I have not build fighter/assassin nuker I rage quit ;) So yeah, if characters would be powerful enough, I would not care about how powerful consumables are. 

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The point is a simple maxed our arcana/alchemy build which can steam roll any clever build you will ever come up with removes the incentive for you to try and think of making clever builds.

 

Because in the end, what's the point of tinkering with builds and trying out different complicated ability synergies when you know it won't even be as half as effective as a simple maxed out arcana/alchemy build. 

 

To be honest, I was perhaps naively assuming that people tinker with builds and look for complicated synergies because they inherently enjoy doing so. That the fulfillment of the activity is its own incentive. That it is about solving a puzzle, about being creative, about discovering new things and figuring out how stuff interlocks.

 

But this sounds like, it's just about ego. About getting the biggest numbers, about getting bigger numbers than others. I probably should have taking better note when @knownastherat suggested that this is just about some (essentially imaginary) competition. Because if it's not, if it's about the fun of the build itself, then why would it matter what other builds are possible?

 

People keep repeating "what is the point?". If you enjoy the process, then THAT is the point. If you enjoy playing the game in new and different ways, then THAT is the point. So maybe what I should be asking is, what precisely is it that you enjoy about playing games like these?  

Edited by Loren Tyr
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The point is a simple maxed our arcana/alchemy build which can steam roll any clever build you will ever come up with removes the incentive for you to try and think of making clever builds.

 

Because in the end, what's the point of tinkering with builds and trying out different complicated ability synergies when you know it won't even be as half as effective as a simple maxed out arcana/alchemy build. 

 

To be honest, I was perhaps naively assuming that people tinker with builds and look for complicated synergies because they inherently enjoy doing so. That the fulfillment of the activity is its own incentive. That it is about solving a puzzle, about being creative, about discovering new things and figuring out how stuff interlocks.

 

But this sounds like, it's just about ego. About getting the biggest numbers, about getting bigger numbers than others. I probably should have taking better note when @knownastherat suggested that this is just about some (essentially imaginary) competition. Because if it's not, if it's about the fun of the build itself, then why would it matter what other builds are possible?

 

People keep repeating "what is the point?". If you enjoy the process, then THAT is the point. If you enjoy playing the game in new and different ways, then THAT is the point. So maybe what I should be asking is, what precisely is it that you enjoy about playing games like these?  

 

 

I can't speak for other people but this is more about me having the mindset of a min-maxer. This is just what I feel so you should not lump my statement to encompass other people. 

 

What I enjoy? Figuring out really fun builds. But in order to do that, nothing should stand out wayyyyyyy on top. There must be some form of balance so I actually feel rewarded with finding out builds and being amazed by it. Right now, my mindset is "oh this build is awesome! it wrecks mobs so easy!" then at the back of my mind "but... arcana/alchemy build can do this but even better..." and this really puts me off from trying out other builds. What's the point of trying to optimise builds when you have a simple arcana/alchemy build that can do whatever you want but in a more superior way.

Edited by giftmefood
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From my POV, it's quite simple; if there's something that's OP to the point of cheese, like pre-1.1 Fighters and 1.1 Arcana/Alchemy, I can take heart in the fact that it'll stop being a problem as soon as the devs get around to nerfing it in the next patch or two. If I was planning a build that just so happened to be relying on the OP of the moment? Well, I'll just shrug and shelve it for later, after the OPness has been rebalanced and I can better gauge the true effectiveness of what I had in mind.

 

And if I was playing something that's not OP in the current meta yet still powerful nonetheless? Then it's much less likely to get nerfed or otherwise changed, and stands a much higher chance of standing the test of time. And there's something to be said about creating a build that, say... two, three years later, a newcomer can come to the Pillars franchise at Deadfire 3.0, see something I've come up with a long time ago, and still think to themselves "That looks cool and powerful, I want to try that out!", well. Plenty of motivation there to figure those builds out nonetheless, regardless of what's OP at the moment. :biggrin:

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From my POV, it's quite simple; if there's something that's OP to the point of cheese, like pre-1.1 Fighters and 1.1 Arcana/Alchemy, I can take heart in the fact that it'll stop being a problem as soon as the devs get around to nerfing it in the next patch or two. If I was planning a build that just so happened to be relying on the OP of the moment? Well, I'll just shrug and shelve it for later, after the OPness has been rebalanced and I can better gauge the true effectiveness of what I had in mind.

 

And if I was playing something that's not OP in the current meta yet still powerful nonetheless? Then it's much less likely to get nerfed or otherwise changed, and stands a much higher chance of standing the test of time. And there's something to be said about creating a build that, say... two, three years later, a newcomer can come to the Pillars franchise at Deadfire 3.0, see something I've come up with a long time ago, and still think to themselves "That looks cool and powerful, I want to try that out!", well. Plenty of motivation there to figure those builds out nonetheless, regardless of what's OP at the moment. :biggrin:

 

Yeah I agree with you. That's why as of now I can't say to builds "that looks cool and powerful. I want to try that out!"

 

But once Arcana/Alchemy has been nerfed then I'll finally be able to be like "oh that's a really cool and powerful build, that's a definite must try!" 

Edited by giftmefood
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From my POV, it's quite simple; if there's something that's OP to the point of cheese, like pre-1.1 Fighters and 1.1 Arcana/Alchemy, I can take heart in the fact that it'll stop being a problem as soon as the devs get around to nerfing it in the next patch or two. If I was planning a build that just so happened to be relying on the OP of the moment? Well, I'll just shrug and shelve it for later, after the OPness has been rebalanced and I can better gauge the true effectiveness of what I had in mind.

 

And if I was playing something that's not OP in the current meta yet still powerful nonetheless? Then it's much less likely to get nerfed or otherwise changed, and stands a much higher chance of standing the test of time. And there's something to be said about creating a build that, say... two, three years later, a newcomer can come to the Pillars franchise at Deadfire 3.0, see something I've come up with a long time ago, and still think to themselves "That looks cool and powerful, I want to try that out!", well. Plenty of motivation there to figure those builds out nonetheless, regardless of what's OP at the moment. :biggrin:

 

Yeah I agree with you. That's why as of now I can't say to builds "that looks cool and powerful. I want to try that out!"

 

But once Arcana/Alchemy has been nerfed then I'll finally be able to be like "oh that's a really cool and powerful build, that's a definite must try!" 

 

 

Or, you know. You can just learn to ignore the existence of whatever it is you don't like, especially if you're fairly certain it's not going to be around forever.

 

To borrow from a song that was popular not so long ago, "Let it go, let it go..."

 

:biggrin:

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From my POV, it's quite simple; if there's something that's OP to the point of cheese, like pre-1.1 Fighters and 1.1 Arcana/Alchemy, I can take heart in the fact that it'll stop being a problem as soon as the devs get around to nerfing it in the next patch or two. If I was planning a build that just so happened to be relying on the OP of the moment? Well, I'll just shrug and shelve it for later, after the OPness has been rebalanced and I can better gauge the true effectiveness of what I had in mind.

 

And if I was playing something that's not OP in the current meta yet still powerful nonetheless? Then it's much less likely to get nerfed or otherwise changed, and stands a much higher chance of standing the test of time. And there's something to be said about creating a build that, say... two, three years later, a newcomer can come to the Pillars franchise at Deadfire 3.0, see something I've come up with a long time ago, and still think to themselves "That looks cool and powerful, I want to try that out!", well. Plenty of motivation there to figure those builds out nonetheless, regardless of what's OP at the moment. :biggrin:

 

Yeah I agree with you. That's why as of now I can't say to builds "that looks cool and powerful. I want to try that out!"

 

But once Arcana/Alchemy has been nerfed then I'll finally be able to be like "oh that's a really cool and powerful build, that's a definite must try!" 

 

 

Or, you know. You can just learn to ignore the existence of whatever it is you don't like, especially if you're fairly certain it's not going to be around forever.

 

To borrow from a song that was popular not so long ago, "Let it go, let it go..."

 

:biggrin:

 

 

Yeah, that's why I said in my previous post on here I'll be using Arcana/Alchemy while it's still strong and when it's been rightfully nerfed then I will be into the fun stuff of finding out fun builds and optimising them to be better!

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To be honest, I was perhaps naively assuming that people tinker with builds and look for complicated synergies because they inherently enjoy doing so. That the fulfillment of the activity is its own incentive. That it is about solving a puzzle, about being creative, about discovering new things and figuring out how stuff interlocks.

 

But this sounds like, it's just about ego. About getting the biggest numbers, about getting bigger numbers than others. I probably should have taking better note when @knownastherat suggested that this is just about some (essentially imaginary) competition. Because if it's not, if it's about the fun of the build itself, then why would it matter what other builds are possible?

 

People keep repeating "what is the point?". If you enjoy the process, then THAT is the point. If you enjoy playing the game in new and different ways, then THAT is the point. So maybe what I should be asking is, what precisely is it that you enjoy about playing games like these?  

 

 

What's wrong with doing things for the sake of competition? A lot people create extensive build guides on these forums because they enjoy getting recognition for their ideas, and sharing them with others. If this collaborative element wasn't something people enjoyed, then the strategy section of the forums would be a wasteland. 

Edited by Neckbitbasket
"A culture's teachings, and most importantly, the nature of its people, achieve definition in conflict."

- Kreia -

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What's the point of trying to optimise builds when you have a simple arcana/alchemy build that can do whatever you want but in a more superior way.

 

Because what you want is the optimization process itself? Or that's what I thought anyway, but clearly not. It's like trying to solve minor variations of the same puzzle over and over and over. If you enjoy the process of solving puzzles itself, I'd expect you to just move on to another puzzle once you've solved one instead. And enjoying tackling that particular puzzle as a challenge on its own (which in this particular context would also be harder, Arcana/Alchemy being as potent as they are), rather than pining about the one you did before. 

 

So let's presume for simplicity in the next patch Obsidian just removed Arcana and Alchemy altogether (and changed nothing else). In this case, I gather, you would move on to making another build; I assume you would enjoy doing so. But this exact build you could make now already, but you wouldn't enjoy it because of the mere presence of other skills in the game that you were never going to use for this build in the first place. So somehow your enjoyment of making this build depends on the absence of skills that are not part of that build. 

 

It's like you have a really nice cake. You have had this cake before and immensely enjoyed it. But now a new cake shop has opened in town, that has a cake that's even better. And so there you sit with your cake, a cake of the sort that has given you great pleasure many times in the past. But now the possibility of a better cake has somehow changed that? Nothing about the cake has changed, it's still the same great recipe, the same fine ingrediënts, the same skilled baker. Nothing about you has changed, you're still partial to the same particular flavours and textures and whatnot. But now the mere realisable possibility of a better cake removes all enjoyment of eating this actual cake right in front of you. Except now a friend calls you and tells you that the new cake shop was destroyed in a freak flour explosion, disintegrating the baker and all his cakes in an inferno of powdery fire. And you rejoice, and weep tears of joy! For with the possibility of the other cake forever removed, your present cake has regained its exquisite flavour, and you can now enjoy it once more.

 

And yes, the prior enjoyment of the original cake is an additional element that does not quite match the original scenario, I added it to set up the dramatic act three twist. The underlying principle however, is quite the same. 

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What's wrong with doing things for the sake of competition? A lot people create extensive build guides on these forums because they enjoy getting recognition for their ideas, and sharing them with others. If this collaborative element wasn't something people enjoyed, then the strategy section of the forums would be a wasteland. 

 

Nothing, if you enjoy it. But that seems to be the rub, the thrust of this thread seems to be "I would like to make builds not based on Alchemy/Arcana, but I can't". Clearly, not it's a competition not everyone is enjoying. And if they don't, why compete in it? Especially since it's not a formal competition anyway, so you can just change the rules a bit to suit yourself. And since this issue is apparently more widely felt, it's not like others wouldn't follow suit anyway.

 

Honestly, if someone today posted a new PotD solo build on the forum saying "See what I made. I wanted to challenge myself more and wanted to try something different, so I decided not to put any skill points in Alchemy and Arcana. Look at the cool new combo I came up with!", do you think that wouldn't be respected? That people wouldn't enjoy seeing what they came up with, or that they wouldn't understand self-imposed restrictions to get more creative? (for all I know this has already been posted btw, I don't follow those that closely). That they would dismiss it because maybe it doesn't plow through enemies quite as efficiently as some other builds?

 

Frankly, I would think that something like this would garner much more positive response than someone coming up with yet another boring, bog-standard, spam it with scrolls until dead kind of build. That's been done plenty already, to get recognition for an idea someone would have to come up with something somewhat original first that hasn't been posted already. Can't very well do that if you go the same old Archemical route, I'd think. 

Edited by Loren Tyr
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That’s sort of how the human brain works though, isn’t it?

 

At least, I know mine does. I can only enjoy something if I know it can’t get better (or close enough); otherwise I spend my time thinking how much better it could be instead of enjoying what I have.

 

(Yes, this way of thinking makes life a lot harder. No, it really isn’t easy to change.)

Edited by AndreaColombo
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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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It's like you have a really nice cake. You have had this cake before and immensely enjoyed it. But now a new cake shop has opened in town, that has a cake that's even better. And so there you sit with your cake, a cake of the sort that has given you great pleasure many times in the past. But now the possibility of a better cake has somehow changed that? Nothing about the cake has changed, it's still the same great recipe, the same fine ingrediënts, the same skilled baker. Nothing about you has changed, you're still partial to the same particular flavours and textures and whatnot. But now the mere realisable possibility of a better cake removes all enjoyment of eating this actual cake right in front of you. Except now a friend calls you and tells you that the new cake shop was destroyed in a freak flour explosion, disintegrating the baker and all his cakes in an inferno of powdery fire. And you rejoice, and weep tears of joy! For with the possibility of the other cake forever removed, your present cake has regained its exquisite flavour, and you can now enjoy it once more.

This is a really good analogy, except you seem to be using it to point out the absurdity of the concept, but many people actually do work this way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrast_effect 

Edited by Neckbitbasket
"A culture's teachings, and most importantly, the nature of its people, achieve definition in conflict."

- Kreia -

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That’s sort of how the human brain works though, isn’t it?

 

At least, I know mine does. I can only enjoy something if I know it can’t get better (or close enough); otherwise I spend my time thinking how much better it could beinstead of enjoying what I have.

 

(Yes, this way of thinking makes life a lot harder. No, it really isn’t easy to change.)

 

Apparently for some anyway. I can't say I suffer from this particular affliction, but everyone has their foibles (I suffer from Chronic Restarter Syndrome myself, a curious malady in its own right). It's quite difficult to wrap my head around though, hence my continued inquiry. Psychology is rather fascinating, after all. 

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This is a really good analogy, but you seem to be using it to point out the absurdity of the concept, but many people actually do work this way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrast_effect 

 

Just to clarify, I very much don't mean to ridicule or anything in any way. It's just a rather alien way of thinking to me, and I'm genuinely just curious about it. My examples and illustrations sometimes just tend to take on a life of their own. 

Edited by Loren Tyr
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