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The french translation was poorly made

french translation bad

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#21
Abel

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Somewhere deep inside me, i thought it would be like this. From what i understand, Italian is worse than french in Pillars 2. I should check the credits for Pillars 1 now. If it is indeed a french company who translated first game, it actually makes things worse. It means the problem is not just creators don't giving a **** about foreign translations, as i thought, and that i assumed too much. Thanks for the input.



#22
Manveru123

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You folks don't seem to realize that knowledge about the genre is not the most important thing when it comes to assigning translators. When it comes to companies that outsource their LQA services, the one thing they value most is being a native. It doesn't matter how amazing your French is: they will always pick a native over you, just because he's a native. More often than not, these natives don't even play games. They translate without context, just with an excel spreadsheet. And everyone is fine with that. The developer gets their translation. The company does what they promised. And the translator gets paid quite well (project like these don't require you to hire someone permanently, you can just grab someone for the duration of the project, so it's no problem to give them a very good wage). If you get lucky, you get a translator who actually knows a thing or two about the game and you get a good translation (for example Polish is mostly quite good).

 

This is my LQA experience in different companies. While I'm sure that it's not the same everywhere, I think this topic proves that something like this was done for Pillars 2 (and I know for a fact that it was for Pillars 1).


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#23
antman45454

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I know, the title is a bit harsh but hear me out on this one.

 

When you give game's assets a name, like "The Deadfire Archipelago", "Ashen Maw" or even "The Leaden Key", they all have a nice, even poetic, ring to them. Even if what it relates to isn't clear, you still get some meaning out of it like :

 

- The Deadfire Archipelago: unforgiving, tropical, deadly

- The Leaden Key: A heavy, unmovable key to lock away a shameful secret.

- Ashen Maw: those who know what it is don't need me to explain. No Spoil right :-

 

 

And here comes the translation.. stripping many names of their poetic sense, or not using the french language at its fullest :

 

- The Deadfire Archipelago becomes "Archipel du Feu Éteint", which means "Extinguished fire Archipelago", like it has been stripped from its life spark, losing all other meaning.-(

- Druids' Rejuvenation (healing) school becomes "Rajeunissement" Which means getting younger.. This one is just wrong. It might sound appropriate for a healing school in english, but in french it has the LITERAL "getting younger" meaning.

- The Leaden Key becomes "Clef Plombée" which means "lead coated key", now this one is nice enough when it comes to its meaning, but there may be a better way to say it because as it is, it doesn't sound good.

 

 

 

Now, the question is, is the game's translation still up for debate ?

Or do we have to mod the game to get it right ?

 

I know it sounds a lot like bickering over something not that important, but when a language as rich as french is so poorly used, as if the names simply went through google translator, I wouldn't mind spending some time correcting that.

The French guys English translation is POORLY DONE

 

not made



#24
xzar_monty

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You folks don't seem to realize that knowledge about the genre is not the most important thing when it comes to assigning translators. When it comes to companies that outsource their LQA services, the one thing they value most is being a native. It doesn't matter how amazing your French is: they will always pick a native over you, just because he's a native. More often than not, these natives don't even play games. They translate without context, just with an excel spreadsheet. And everyone is fine with that. The developer gets their translation. The company does what they promised. And the translator gets paid quite well (project like these don't require you to hire someone permanently, you can just grab someone for the duration of the project, so it's no problem to give them a very good wage). If you get lucky, you get a translator who actually knows a thing or two about the game and you get a good translation (for example Polish is mostly quite good).

 

I very seriously doubt the translator gets paid well. Of course we will have to define what "well" means here. Is it well for Tokyo, Reykjavik, Helsinki and London, or is it well for Delhi, Mogadishu, Lima and Hampton Roads, Virginia?



#25
gloomseeker

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You folks don't seem to realize that knowledge about the genre is not the most important thing when it comes to assigning translators. When it comes to companies that outsource their LQA services, the one thing they value most is being a native. It doesn't matter how amazing your French is: they will always pick a native over you, just because he's a native. More often than not, these natives don't even play games. They translate without context, just with an excel spreadsheet. And everyone is fine with that. The developer gets their translation. The company does what they promised. And the translator gets paid quite well (project like these don't require you to hire someone permanently, you can just grab someone for the duration of the project, so it's no problem to give them a very good wage). If you get lucky, you get a translator who actually knows a thing or two about the game and you get a good translation (for example Polish is mostly quite good).

 

I very seriously doubt the translator gets paid well. Of course we will have to define what "well" means here. Is it well for Tokyo, Reykjavik, Helsinki and London, or is it well for Delhi, Mogadishu, Lima and Hampton Roads, Virginia?

 

 

In all likelihood they probably get less than 10 cents a word (perhaps even as little as 4 cents) which is not that great if you take into account taxes and all that (France being what it is).



#26
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The French guys English translation is POORLY DONE

not made

Seriously now?

You forgot an apostrophe with the possessive case by the way...

In my opinion it would be best if Obsidian released the game without localisation but provide a good infrastructure for fan-made translations (modding). Usually those are better - and they cost nothing. Bonus claps if they'd provide some kind of compensation.

Edited by Boeroer, 18 June 2018 - 11:44 PM.

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#27
Lord_Mord

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I asked Josh about that. If I interpreted that answer correctly he basically said that they do what they can, but they don't have the resources/people to constantly look over the shoulder of their translation companies.

https://jesawyer.tum...-but-the-german

What I ask myself (I didn't want to ask it on Josh's Tumbler) is why they took the same company again, after what they did to PoE1. I assume it's the same company as the same stupid error (Item names) occured again. Edit: They actually didn't.

 

 

I know it sounds a lot like bickering over something not that important

I think, it's really important. Back in the BG days people complained about the translation being poorly done, just because the company took a few liberties. But everything was understandable and well written (Of course the language in that games was a bit simpler overall). The VO (Yes that game had german VO) was excellent. Montaron for example had Willem Dafoe's german voice. These days the translations are mostly unbearable and people don't even notice. This is true for films, too. What we see here is a degeneration of peoples ability to distinguish good from bad language. You tell someone that this or that sentence sounds odd and get the response: "Why? I can understand what's going on."

 

 

In my opinion it would be best if Obsidian released the game without localisation but provide a good infrastructure for fan-made translations (modding). Usually those are better - and they cost nothing. Bonus claps if they'd provide some kind of compensation.

 

That can't be the way. You can't outsource that kind of stuff to the players. Sooner or later the game companies would assume that as normal. Do you want to wait for every new games fan translation, if it ever gets finished. Once the professional made translations were better than the fan stuff. Somehow the standards for this have to raise again.

I don't expect everything to sound like ****ing Goethe, but every film, game or whatever should be translated in a manner that fits the level of the original text. And the crap we got for PoE1+2 is just highly unworthy of the original.


Edited by Lord_Mord, 19 June 2018 - 08:23 AM.

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#28
theBalthazar

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A simple solution :

 

You use Beta to allow a first look. Like that, you can edit BEFORE release date.

 

But problem, backer beta 1 to 4 haven't different languages, and only on a little area...

 

It is simple if we have the full beta with all languages. Sure, there is a little bias (but not very problematic) : if you have a Balthazar with french, Madscientist for german and others for spanish, there will be a lot of correction. Perhaps less in others languages... But for me, it is always better than that. At least, the most repported languages can have a better translation.

 

Josh said there are QA testers. I think it is a lie, frankly. With the states of few tooltips. No ones could play like that without warn Obsidian. Impossible, there are too much errors.

 

Sadly, translation was be done without context and immediatly integrate to the game, without any verification. It is a fact. A french human cannot not see that if he is a QA Tester.

 

"Non armés armes".

It is like in english i say :

 

"Non weapon weapons" (Unarmed weapons)


Edited by theBalthazar, 19 June 2018 - 02:56 AM.


#29
Manveru123

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What I ask myself (I didn't want to ask it on Josh's Tumbler) is why they took the same company again, after what they did to PoE1. I assume it's the same company as the same stupid error (Item names) occured again.

 

Outsourcing to Poland is cheap. In a project like this one, money counts I guess.

 

I also remember the days when Baldur's Gate 2 was translated by professionals in Poland. We got an incredibly good translation, some very popular actors lent their voices (the narrator is remembered fondly to this day, the polish version of "you must gather your party to venture forth" is like a mantra), the quality was immense. I don't think anyone does that for these kind of games anymore :(


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#30
ilfiniol

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The translation of the history is correct. But the translation of ALL the technical part of the game is a real shame. The same word is used in the french translation for "focus" and "concentration" !!! Come on ! And this is in only an exemple...


Edited by ilfiniol, 19 June 2018 - 04:00 AM.


#31
Lord_Mord

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Josh said there are QA testers. I think it is a lie, frankly. With the states of few tooltips. No ones could play like that without warn Obsidian. Impossible, there are too much errors.

 

I think it's true. But he said it was an external team (I think he means external in the sense of they hired a company) and as far as I understood, they haven't had the means to check if they've done a good job. So there was feedback but it was handled poorly/not at all. But I'm not shure if I got that right.

 

 

Outsourcing to Poland is cheap.

Waitwaitwait. The italian, spanish and german translation were done in Poland? Is that a fact or just a claim? Come on. A game like Deadfire can only be translated well by natives. There are dialects and stuff in there. No foreign speaker has the sensibility to get that right. Not that they even tried. Even for a native it would be very hard and should be done by real professionals.

 

 

I also remember the days when Baldur's Gate 2 was translated by professionals in Poland. We got an incredibly good translation, some very popular actors lent their voices (the narrator is remembered fondly to this day, the polish version of "you must gather your party to venture forth" is like a mantra), the quality was immense.

 

I heard that more than once from different people.

Edit: I just listened through the companion voices in polish. Man, they are really great, some of them fit perfectly. Maybe I'm not right in the head, but I'm actually a bit moved. :) Jan is voiced by Jan.


Edited by Lord_Mord, 19 June 2018 - 04:59 AM.


#32
ilfiniol

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Outsourcing to Poland is cheap.

Waitwaitwait. The italian, spanish and german translation were done in Poland? Is that a fact or just a claim? Come on. A game like Deadfire can only be translated well by natives. There are dialects and stuff in there. No foreign speaker has the sensibility to get that right. Not that they even tried. Even for a native it would be very hard and should be done by real professionals.

 

 

 

 

A real translation is ALWAYS from a foreign language to a mothertongue language, it's the first rule in professional translation.

But we can find french/german/italien natives in Poland, why not ? A friend of mine who is a french translator works from Portugal...


Edited by ilfiniol, 19 June 2018 - 04:53 AM.


#33
Manveru123

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Outsourcing to Poland is cheap.

Waitwaitwait. The italian, spanish and german translation were done in Poland? Is that a fact or just a claim? Come on. A game like Deadfire can only be translated well by natives. There are dialects and stuff in there. No foreign speaker has the sensibility to get that right. Not that they even tried. Even for a native it would be very hard and should be done by real professionals.

 

It's a fact for POE1. Here's proof if you need it.

 

https://www.giantbom...-39775/credits/

 

QLOC is based in Warsaw.

 

They did Deadfire too, but only Chinese, Polish and Russian. For other languages, blame GameScribes, who are based in the US. Oh, and Red Cerberus (who are based in Brazil and I have no idea which part they did).

 

And they DID use natives. Read my post earlier in this thread. They basically recruit people off the streets and sit them in front of an Excel spreadsheet.


Edited by Manveru123, 19 June 2018 - 05:01 AM.

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#34
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Edit2: I got you wrong.
 


Edited by Lord_Mord, 19 June 2018 - 05:10 AM.


#35
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Josh said there are QA testers. I think it is a lie, frankly. With the states of few tooltips. No ones could play like that without warn Obsidian. Impossible, there are too much errors.

 

Sadly, translation was be done without context and immediatly integrate to the game, without any verification. It is a fact. A french human cannot not see that if he is a QA Tester.

 

Localization QA Testers

 

Amine Ouahabi, Augusto Ferreira, Daria Bloch, Denisse Mallqui, Enrico Sposato, Fabrício Almeida, Filipo Teixeira, Helena Kardash, Holger Schott, Irina Dorabiato, Jean Lucas Bahia, Leonardo Marinho, Magdalena Marciniak, Nello Amadei, Patrícia Amaro, Priscila Vitta, Pedro Nakanish, Raquel Ghazal, Sandra Rodrigo, Thais Bortoletto, Yan Qiao, Yassine Benfaqyrah

 

 

Those were under Red Cerberus. They did the Portuguese version I think.


Edited by Flouride, 19 June 2018 - 05:12 AM.


#36
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I asked Josh about that. If I interpreted that answer correctly he basically said that they do what they can, but they don't have the resources/people to constantly look over the shoulder of their translation companies.

https://jesawyer.tum...-but-the-german

What I ask myself (I didn't want to ask it on Josh's Tumbler) is why they took the same company again, after what they did to PoE1. I assume it's the same company as the same stupid error (Item names) occured again.


 

 

 

They used different company this time.

S&H Entertainment Localization did most of the localization for Pillars 1. QLOC did the QA Localization testing.

GameScribes (Italian, Spanish, German and French), QLOC (Chinese, Russian and Polish), Red Cerberus (Portuguese) and H2 Interactive (Korean) on Deadfire.


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#37
Flouride

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It's a fact for POE1. Here's proof if you need it.

 

https://www.giantbom...-39775/credits/

 

QLOC is based in Warsaw.

 

They did Deadfire too, but only Chinese, Polish and Russian. For other languages, blame GameScribes, who are based in the US. Oh, and Red Cerberus (who are based in Brazil and I have no idea which part they did).

 

And they DID use natives. Read my post earlier in this thread. They basically recruit people off the streets and sit them in front of an Excel spreadsheet.

 

 

Actually, no. http://www.mobygames...-edition/credit

 

QLOC did the Localization testing, actual localization was done by a different company.

While GameScribes is based in USA, the actual translators might be living on the Moon. Translating doesn't require you to be at location.


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#38
Manveru123

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Dunno about GameScribes but I can assure you that QLOC has all of their workers on-site. I happen to be an ex-employee, so I kinda have first hand knowledge.

 

Do you know what "localization testing" is? It's that thing where you get raw text, done with Google Translate or on a knee, and you have to translate it into coherent sentences. You then send your work to the developers, they put it into the game, then send it back to you for a re-test. So yeah, the company who did the Google Translate is not really important here: the actual translators are.



#39
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Do you know what "localization testing" is? It's that thing where you get raw text, done with Google Translate or on a knee, and you have to translate it into coherent sentences. You then send your work to the developers, they put it into the game, then send it back to you for a re-test. So yeah, the company who did the Google Translate is not really important here: the actual translators are.

Is that really how it works, or do you exaggerate it a bit? Do I understand you correctly that the localization testers get chunks of ****ty text, have to correct them somehow and that's what they call a translation?



#40
OldViking

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Dunno about GameScribes but I can assure you that QLOC has all of their workers on-site. I happen to be an ex-employee, so I kinda have first hand knowledge.

 

Do you know what "localization testing" is? It's that thing where you get raw text, done with Google Translate or on a knee, and you have to translate it into coherent sentences. You then send your work to the developers, they put it into the game, then send it back to you for a re-test. So yeah, the company who did the Google Translate is not really important here: the actual translators are.

That explains a lot.

 

A well, Germany had a symbol of quality that was worth much around the world "Made in Germany".

Today it is a shallow phrase. Quality work is to much to ask in in these days.

Maybe it's because i am old, but my parents taught me from the start, if you do something do it right or not at all. :geek:


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