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In other words, save scumming. It's basically cheating, you don't need to do it, and most games are vulnerable to it in some form or another. I already mentioned the balance issue.

 

 

Yes, very well said. I don't think "you can save scum that away" is a very productive criticism of game design. In games with a liberal save option, like all these RPGs, you can say this about any challenge in the game, whether it's random or not. You can say this about even the role play conversations, about thieving, about any major plot decisions you make.

 

 

Disagree strongly. "Save scumming things away" for example is the reason why Obsidian went with unconditional skill checks in Fallout: New Vegas and IWD2 versus their counterparts by Bethesda and Bioware, and it made skills much more meaningful when you actually needed some level to pass, and not the minimum and some patience to reload. No amount of save/reload is going to let you pass a hard Speech 80 check in F:NV.

 

Similarly, for example some of the "challenge" from earlier discussion in BG/BG2 is just stupid save-or-else death spells (or might-as-well-be-death spells) or traps, or (especially in low-level BG) just a couple rounds of bad rolls (e.g. your squishier characters getting critically hit at just the right moment). The fact that you can save/reload that challenge away speaks to the sometimes stupid amount of variance that was present in those games that had little to do with skill.

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that was what they decided to do in the reboot of the xcom series.

 

it's easier to do in something like xcom because it's more self-contained and events much more discrete, being a turn-based game centered around encounters.

 

it would work less well in something like deadfire because even in bounty fights (which are self-contained), there are so many things happening that it could easily be a chaotic system where if you're just one second off from casting a spell the second time you re-try the fight, the fact that there's a stored seed becomes moot because of all the cascading changes that occur.

 

and in the xcom reboot IIRC you could still "blow" a bad seed by reloading some turns back and doing something different with the information you had that e.g. the enemies overwatch attack would all hit.

Edited by thelee
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They should require crafted meals to cure injuries or include actual penalties (-1 Resolve the horror)

 

No xp gain :w00t:

 

xp loss :biggrin:

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the_ultimate.png
 

Done with Moon Godlike Wizard

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Deadfire already has all the systems for x-com/expeditions injuries style, it's called your crew. It just that it doesn't affect companions in same way and is generally made to be as not stressful for players as possible, of course.

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Guest Psychovampiric Shield

 

I agree, there is definitely a lot of potential but I think even still it isn't ever going to be able to reach that same level of meta gaming as BG2 with mods. I think so much of the tactical feel of the BG2 mods came down to casters though. Yeah, there are some tough melee opponents but the bulk of the serious stuff was all about properly utilizing your casters to properly counter the enemy casters. The affliction/inspiration system just doesn't have that same level of depth to me. I have a dexterity affliction so i cast a dexterity inspiration to remove it. There isn't any more depth to that. With BG2 casters there were so many more layers. Yeah, Breach will remove the enemy wizard's stoneskin, but your breach isn't going to work until you remove his spell shield. So you pierce magic the shield but now he's got invisibility so you can't target breach on him. And he has immunity to Divination so you need to use a rogue to detect illusions cuz your true sight doesn't dispel his invis. Etc, etc.

 

Well, depth...the "system" of what dispells what was just messy and very opaque in BG; it was hard to translate spell descriptions into correct spell sequence. Once you got it through trial and error, there really was not anything deep or clever going on. The same feel could be easily recreated in PoE 2 in three steps:

 

1) erase all keywords from spell descriptions, so that one can not tell beforehand what spells will be mind immune monster immune to

2) erase affliction/inspiration descriptions, so that one can not tell beforehand that paralysis is dex affliction

3) do not show monster resistances/immunities

 

Whether that would be an improvement or not is up to everyone. Luckily, that could be probably done with a mod, so both camps can have it their way.

Edited by Psychovampiric Shield

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that was what they decided to do in the reboot of the xcom series.

 

and in the xcom reboot IIRC you could still "blow" a bad seed by reloading some turns back and doing something different with the information you had that e.g. the enemies overwatch attack would all hit.

 

Exactly, or you just waste a low seeded roll on an unimportant action and try the important action again with a different seed...

 

If you really want to cheat the system theres always going to be a way to cheat the system...

dont waste time on this cr4p

 

half the suggestions in here are really poorly thought out at this point... where is the downvote button when you need it...

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Speaking of changes in patches, I don't understand why skeletons in first dungeon lost their piercing immunity for just 12 p armor.

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Guest Psychovampiric Shield

Speaking of changes in patches, I don't understand why skeletons in first dungeon lost their piercing immunity for just 12 p armor.

I think they have never been immune (because early in the game, I used single pistol for accuracy bonus); generally basic skeletons are not, uber skeletons (e.g. Risen Armsman) are.

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Because of interrupt system and oddly low stats dragons are total pushovers. Weaker than White March ones or Adra Dragon by far.

Edited by Shadenuat

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