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I saw fextralife's 1.1.0 patch video on youtube today and i have to say i disagree with most of the things devs are doing. While i completely agree difficulty veteran and potd should be increased greatly, i believe destroying what makes certain classes strong is absolutely wrong way to go. In first game i felt classes felt a little bland, they did not offer enough diversity between each other, only when you leveled them up you actually felt the real difference but in this game all classes i played were significantly different from the start which felt great. Since devs are readjusting difficulty i think they should scale weaker classes such as rogue or ranger up to others like monk or paladin or wizard and provide a properchallange on that medium. That way they would not be destroying certain builds completely while enabling others to rise.

 

ps (i also agree with items being too op, they have far too many affixes which stacks up alot when you have a full inventory)

 

What do you guys think on the patch changes?

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Things that completely break the game like Invincible monks with blade turning had to go.  That lets just walk through the game and do nothing.  I do disagree with things like devotions of the faithful getting nerfs.  Any time you put me at the mercy of rolling the dice because I cannot get my accuracy above a defense it sucks. Makes me feel like its RNG and not good skill.

 

Paladin Faith and Conviction (Its my fav class so I hate that I am saying this) was too high.  Early in POE 1 they had the same issue and it was toned down.  I never felt that the classes in POE 1 played the same nor do I feel that way in POE 2 even with the nerfs.  

Edited by Torm51

Have gun will travel.

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I am so glad they tuned down Devotions of the Faithful, honestly. It was too strong and has been since PoE1, swinging fights wildly and since it's per encounter now it was removing any tactics other than "cast at beginning of fight, always." I mean +20 accuracy? That's the equivalent of every one of your guys fighting SEVERAL levels above where they should be, while simultaneously making enemies fight several levels lower. Why would you ever not use it? It's still very useful at just +10/-10

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I am so glad they tuned down Devotions of the Faithful, honestly. It was too strong and has been since PoE1, swinging fights wildly and since it's per encounter now it was removing any tactics other than "cast at beginning of fight, always." I mean +20 accuracy? That's the equivalent of every one of your guys fighting SEVERAL levels above where they should be, while simultaneously making enemies fight several levels lower. Why would you ever not use it? It's still very useful at just +10/-10

I see your point.  


Have gun will travel.

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Difficulty tuning for the potd is is a bit extreme in some areas, quality of life improvements like it selecting the max amount of a item when selling is great. I still have encountered a few bugs and random crashes with it running on parrot 4.0 os

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As mentioned in other threads, I believe they went overboard with the nerfs. Some abilities needed nerfing, but not to the extent to which 1.1 nerfed them.

 

Most items didn't require nerfing at all.

 

 

And what's with making recovery longer every other update? Sitting through recovery time is neither engaging nor fun. Instead of nerfing speed bonuses across the board, they should have gone back to weapon recovery times as they were in early beta builds (IIRC, everything was about 1s faster; average for sure was 3s instead of 4s.)

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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99% of changes are good and were needed but  at the moment I find myself waiting for a cipher rebalancing. 

 

I like the added difficulty overall and think most of the changes were needed. If I were a fan of wizards or chanters I'd be playing happily instead of posting. As someone who mostly plays the ciphers, well, here I am.

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I am so glad they tuned down Devotions of the Faithful, honestly. It was too strong and has been since PoE1, swinging fights wildly and since it's per encounter now it was removing any tactics other than "cast at beginning of fight, always." I mean +20 accuracy? That's the equivalent of every one of your guys fighting SEVERAL levels above where they should be, while simultaneously making enemies fight several levels lower. Why would you ever not use it? It's still very useful at just +10/-10 

 

True.

 

I have just a problem now : if you have a zealous aura or stance of fighter. The true bonus is only of 5 pt. Not 10.

+10 is really perfect, IF there are no stacking rules.

 

15 accuracy was perhaps a better choice, with actual situation of stacking rules and at 4.5s of casting time.

 

Now you have two choices :

1) TAKE Devotion for one of your priest. But need 4.5s at the start of battle. And you don't pick aura or conquerer stance for your fighters/Paladins.

2) DON'T TAKE Devotion. You are free to use something else with a priest, or even don't pick a priest. And you take a free and permanent aura but you are only at 5 and not 10. Or Fighter at 10 with his stance.

 

A lot of thing which are supressed each others. Boring.

 

Personnally, With only a true gap of 5 accuracy. 3s is now a better casting time. 4.5s is too much for the difference.

 

I am a fervent defender of full stacking rule since the very beginning with two rules to limit haxx :

 

1) Containers (inspirations / Afflictions) don't stack. (Tenacious + Strong)

2) Same nominative spells don't stack (Devotion for the faithful from one priest + Devotion of the faithful from an other priest)

 

All the rest = stack.

 

From a personnal perspective, I found that far more interresting. EVEN with again few nerfs (not a problem for me) !... I prefer full customization, always. Even with less powerful passives abilities. Because with that you have a better feel of choice and assembly.

Edited by theBalthazar
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I am so glad they tuned down Devotions of the Faithful, honestly. It was too strong and has been since PoE1, swinging fights wildly and since it's per encounter now it was removing any tactics other than "cast at beginning of fight, always." I mean +20 accuracy? That's the equivalent of every one of your guys fighting SEVERAL levels above where they should be, while simultaneously making enemies fight several levels lower. Why would you ever not use it? It's still very useful at just +10/-10

True.

 

I have just a problem now : if you have a zealous aura or stance of fighter. The true bonus is only of 5 pt. Not 10.

+10 is really perfect, IF there are no stacking rules.

 

15 accuracy was perhaps a better choice, with actual situation of stacking rules and at 4.5s of casting time.

 

Now you have two choices :

1) TAKE Devotion for one of your priest. But need 4.5s at the start of battle. And you don't pick aura or conquerer stance for your fighters/Paladins.

2) DON'T TAKE Devotion. You are free to use something else with a priest, or even don't pick a priest. And you take a free and permanent aura but you are only at 5 and not 10. Or Fighter at 10 with his stance.

 

A lot of thing which are supressed each others. Boring.

 

Personnally, With only a true gap of 5 accuracy. 3s is now a better casting time. 4.5s is too much for the difference.

 

I am a fervent defender of full stacking rule since the very beginning with two rules to limit haxx :

 

1) Containers (inspirations / Afflictions) don't stack. (Tenacious + Strong)

2) Same nominative spells don't stack (Devotion for the faithful from one priest + Devotion of the faithful from an other priest)

 

All the rest = stack.

 

From a personnal perspective, I found that far more interresting. EVEN with again few nerfs (not a problem for me) !... I prefer full customization, always. Even with less powerful passives abilities. Because with that you have a better feel of choice and assembly.

Oh yes, that is true. I have also been kind of bummed about only getting +5 from it when playing Paladin or bringing Pallegina.

 

The funny thing is though, I'm actually using other Paladin auras now. Before, I never chose anything other than the accuracy bonus. It has actually encouraged me to rotate auras and fighter stances I wouldn't normally use.

 

I think I prefer it this way. It doesn't make me feel like I have to ALWAYS have the same party makeup to get the same, or similar, accuracy bonus. But I totally get where you're coming from. :)

Edited by fortuntek

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Everything that was nerfed was required. However in a few cases they target the wrong thing. I.e Time parasite. This needed to not stack as it gave ascendant an absurd speed boost. Instead they reduced the values.

Monk swift flurry seemed ok to me, the damage v.s. Speed of fists though...

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Everything that was nerfed was required. However in a few cases they target the wrong thing. I.e Time parasite. This needed to not stack as it gave ascendant an absurd speed boost. Instead they reduced the values.

Monk swift flurry seemed ok to me, the damage v.s. Speed of fists though...

 

 

Oh lord, does the patch not fix Time Parasite stacking with itself? That's hilarious.

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I am so glad they tuned down Devotions of the Faithful, honestly. It was too strong and has been since PoE1, swinging fights wildly and since it's per encounter now it was removing any tactics other than "cast at beginning of fight, always." I mean +20 accuracy? That's the equivalent of every one of your guys fighting SEVERAL levels above where they should be, while simultaneously making enemies fight several levels lower. Why would you ever not use it? It's still very useful at just +10/-10 

 

True.

 

I have just a problem now : if you have a zealous aura or stance of fighter. The true bonus is only of 5 pt. Not 10.

+10 is really perfect, IF there are no stacking rules.

 

15 accuracy was perhaps a better choice, with actual situation of stacking rules and at 4.5s of casting time.

 

Now you have two choices :

1) TAKE Devotion for one of your priest. But need 4.5s at the start of battle. And you don't pick aura or conquerer stance for your fighters/Paladins.

2) DON'T TAKE Devotion. You are free to use something else with a priest, or even don't pick a priest. And you take a free and permanent aura but you are only at 5 and not 10. Or Fighter at 10 with his stance.

 

A lot of thing which are supressed each others. Boring.

 

Personnally, With only a true gap of 5 accuracy. 3s is now a better casting time. 4.5s is too much for the difference.

 

I am a fervent defender of full stacking rule since the very beginning with two rules to limit haxx :

 

1) Containers (inspirations / Afflictions) don't stack. (Tenacious + Strong)

2) Same nominative spells don't stack (Devotion for the faithful from one priest + Devotion of the faithful from an other priest)

 

All the rest = stack.

 

From a personnal perspective, I found that far more interresting. EVEN with again few nerfs (not a problem for me) !... I prefer full customization, always. Even with less powerful passives abilities. Because with that you have a better feel of choice and assembly

agreed

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Have gun will travel.

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POTD is much better now, at least in the early/mid game.  I suspect that it will still get too easy after level 8-10, but am taking it slow.  

 

Devs: don't listen to anyone saying POTD is too hard.  That's precisely the reason you offer other, lower difficulty levels.

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POTD is much better now, at least in the early/mid game. I suspect that it will still get too easy after level 8-10, but am taking it slow.

 

Devs: don't listen to anyone saying POTD is too hard. That's precisely the reason you offer other, lower difficulty levels.

Yes,POTD is harder.But it's not fun enough.Devs just increased normal enemies' data and add more units,which make battles slower and a little boring.But most bosses are still weak,no new abilities,no new spelles,no new AI,just increase a few basic data as normal enemies.

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POTD is much better now, at least in the early/mid game. I suspect that it will still get too easy after level 8-10, but am taking it slow.

 

Devs: don't listen to anyone saying POTD is too hard. That's precisely the reason you offer other, lower difficulty levels.

Yes,POTD is harder.But it's not fun enough.Devs just increased normal enemies' data and add more units,which make battles slower and a little boring.But most bosses are still weak,no new abilities,no new spelles,no new AI,just increase a few basic data as normal enemies.

 

 

I don't agree. A couple of lagufeth on tikawara had Stoic Steel running (at level 9, no less), and to overcome that I had to turn it into a running fight so the bonus armor didn't get too high. New ability, new tactics necessary.

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271.2 hrs played and I'm done after trying the beta patch. Brilliant was the only thing that made playing casters fun for me, and I only play casters.

 

Don't get me wrong, they are still very powerfull, that's not my beef. They are just not fun for me anymore.

 

I guess I just hate the new system of only 2 spell casts for each spell level per encounter, and brilliant buff made it just bearable.

 

But now on the harder fights I'm often left with only auto attack for a good chunk of the it, because I run off spells/empower too fast and the enemy still has so much hp left... how can anyone find it fun, its beyond me. :-/

 

Oh, I still win the fights just fine, but now I'm obligated to speed up the fight to the maximum while watching youtube on my other monitor, waiting forever for my guys tickle the HP of the boss.

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I simply don't want any abilities/spells that make all others irrelevant when I play the game.

especially now that casts are per encounter.

Imagine in the first POE if you could cast crowns of the faithful in every encounter. Nothing else would be needed.

Seriously who came up with the +25 resolve?

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I agree with most of the nerfs, I just don't understand the need for lengthening the casting/recovery times (at release or since). I think I remember hearing in one of the dev streams that their goal was to slow down the pace of combat to make party management easier in real time, but this game is RTWP for a reason. There's literally already a slider to slow fights down to a crawl — if I wanted combat where party members and enemies stare at each other between moves, I'd play a turn based rpg (which is why I don't).

 

Combat should feel frenetic so as to to *necessitate* pause. Right now there's a little too much standing around.

Edited by Purudaya
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I welcome the patch, but I would still strongly suggest that the devs take what is currently named PotD in the Beta patch and just make that into the new Veteran difficulty, then design an even harder PotD. A non-hardcore player like me should be having real trouble killing the bosses on PotD.

The Good:
I only briefly booted to fight the last major fight of the game but I found it to be a welcome step up and so so much more enjoyable than in vanilla. The boss seemed savvier and less easy to isolate neutralize, using breath spells on the whole party even when tanked. It used breath attacks to hit multiple characters. It attacked faster, and used special abilities much more often. These were very welcome improvements. The mid-combat adds were more substantial as well.

Still...
using a full party (Éder, Xoti, Aloth, Pallegina, my Battlemage), I killed the last boss in one try without losing or rezzing anyone. I am not a hardcore, but merely competent, player. Not all my equipment was legendary or superb. To be fair, however, I used most abilities on my chars and was auto-attacking at the end. I also used the sacrificial dagger Marux Amanth at the end, although it was probably not strictly necessary! 


Regarding pen and armor in 1.1 and PotD: 

I'll be honest  that I don't quite understand the mechanics of pen scaling as is so perhaps all this is ill-informed. But I would give major, armored PotD bosses even higher pen so that they overpen all but superb/legendary plate, and/or paladins using legendary/superb scale and their special abilities. I would also revisit higher armor so that all but superb/legendary estocs, arbalests, and arquebuses, and legendary one-handed weapons using pen modals, have low pen. This might call for redesigning modals so that legendary 1h swords / warhammers using modals still allow pen against the major, armored enemies.  But continuing to revisit penetration balance in general would make two-handers more central to the game.

As it now stands, the last boss on PotD beta 1.1 had armor of 13 so out of all legendary 1h weapons, only sabre using modal had pen. But that felt sort of uncalled for; ideally legendary sword/warhammer would also have pen using the modals. After all, what is the point of their modals if you still always have low pen? Let me know if I'm wrong about the stats or my conjectures. 

In general, the Estoc and War Bow modals should not offer pen. The modal is redundant as superb/legendary War Bows/Estocs already (correctly) have pen against all major bosses on PotD, but full penetration is almost always impossible except against enemies in robes...Let the modals offer accuracy or damage or something. But grant Great Swords a penetration modal or something -- it seems very dumb that legendary sanguine blade cannot get pen against PotD last boss but a sabre can?  

I would say in general that weapons should be (re)balanced to be either low pen but apply significant debuffs on modals or special modals to self (i.e., deflection), medium pen, allow to move to highest pen bracket but require big recovery time and/or loss to deflection; or afford high pen but allow a damage and or accuracy buff. What makes no sense at all is high penetration weapons that have a pen modal! -- this basically just makes them worse as full penetration is very unlikely except against weak adds.

Edited by lpro
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I agree with most of the nerfs, I just don't understand the need for lengthening the casting/recovery times (at release or since). I think I remember hearing in one of the dev streams that their goal was to slow down the pace of combat to make party management easier in real time, but this game is RTWP for a reason. There's literally already a slider to slow fights down to a crawl — if I wanted combat where party members and enemies stare at each other between moves, I'd play a turn based rpg (which is why I don't).

 

Combat should feel frenetic so as to to *necessitate* pause. Right now there's a little too much standing around.

 

I think they originally tried to find a combat pace that is "just right" but during the beta they gave up and introduced the slider. For which I am grateful, because I am exactly the person who wants to watch the action without much pausing. Too bad they didn't make such a slider in PoE 1.

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I am so glad they tuned down Devotions of the Faithful, honestly. It was too strong and has been since PoE1, swinging fights wildly and since it's per encounter now it was removing any tactics other than "cast at beginning of fight, always." I mean +20 accuracy? That's the equivalent of every one of your guys fighting SEVERAL levels above where they should be, while simultaneously making enemies fight several levels lower. Why would you ever not use it? It's still very useful at just +10/-10

 

Devotions of the Faithful and Dire Blessing is the only reason i used a priest if i am being honest. Everything else she can do, other classes do it far better. Druid is far better at heal over time or damage over time, paladin is alot better at ressurrect or burst heal. And Priests do crappy damage (more so now with Berath nerf). So tell me why should i ever use a priest now, instead of another dps source?

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I saw fextralife's 1.1.0 patch video on youtube today and i have to say i disagree with most of the things devs are doing. While i completely agree difficulty veteran and potd should be increased greatly, i believe destroying what makes certain classes strong is absolutely wrong way to go. In first game i felt classes felt a little bland, they did not offer enough diversity between each other, only when you leveled them up you actually felt the real difference but in this game all classes i played were significantly different from the start which felt great. Since devs are readjusting difficulty i think they should scale weaker classes such as rogue or ranger up to others like monk or paladin or wizard and provide a properchallange on that medium. That way they would not be destroying certain builds completely while enabling others to rise.

 

ps (i also agree with items being too op, they have far too many affixes which stacks up alot when you have a full inventory)

 

What do you guys think on the patch changes?

 

i whole-heartedly agree with you. seems kind of a joke that obsidian version of difficulty is removing features, nerf and handicapping you (low accuracy vs. high enemies defense) swarming you with lots of mobs during low level of the game where you have no gold, no level and no gear. they call that "difficulty". such a big joke obsidian is making here.. i like to see my powerful party with all those awesome builds that community comes up with against high level opponents that uses strategy. but no. what obsidian is doing is eyeing the forum on whatever build the player come up with and nerf the hell out of it. seems incompetent and lazy.

Edited by Archaven
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^ I agree with everything except the notion that Obsidian are incompetent and lazy. They just happen to have a different approach to balancing than some of us, which is fair. I don’t like the changes but I’ll give them the benefit of doubt since there are many more patches and three DLCs to go still.

 

If all else fails, we can mod the game to iur liking at the end of the patching cycle.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Obsidian are not incompetent and lazy.

 

They don't feel subtly the level of necessary nerf.

 

The difference between classes, to keep a balance for each class. The best solution is to preserves a niche trump card. Wizard (High AoE damage, AoE debuff), Chanter (Buff, Paralyse) Druid (Stun, petrfication, AoE Overtime damage) Cipher (Charm + double buff) Priest (AoE buff + Single strong Debuff) Fighter (Safe single damage via accuracy) Rogue (High single damage) Barbarian (High AoE physical damage) ETC ETC.

 

Each class have a trump card and can do the job for others domains.

Edited by theBalthazar

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