Failure to create a sequel. An improved version.

[AeonsLegend]

As a follow up, the rules I've seen for 5e won't allow a character to go sub-8 on any one ability score, that's the real reason there's no true dump stats.

Inless you have a race that has -2 on that stat of course.

[Seroster01]

 

As a follow up, the rules I've seen for 5e won't allow a character to go sub-8 on any one ability score, that's the real reason there's no true dump stats.

Inless you have a race that has -2 on that stat of course.

 

 

True enough.

[Torm51]

I’m a lowlife too dammit.

[Torm51]

No point complaining about infinite carry capacity.

 

POE 1 had per rest which was changed to per encounter cause people didn't like having keep going back to town. There is no way on this planet your going get any real meaningful carry system as people just wouldn't play it.

 

Modern soldiers carry upto 90lbs of gear. 

 

Thats not much when start talking of armour swords and guns. No one going want to do multiple trips to dungeon.

 

I like having limits placed but carrying loot I don't want it limited. Per rest if I found myself going back town then I was making mistakes and need to look at what I was doing wrong, hence its punishment. Carry load would be constant punishment when done nothing wrong. It would seriously get boring fast.

 

If want explanation to infinite carry capacity thank aloth for his infinite carry spell.

Hah Machine gunners get it worse than 90 lbs.  9 mile patrol with that 240?? Welcome to hell, hopefully you get engaged so you can take your mind off of your absolute misery.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Torm51

[MortyTheGobbo]

5e D&D has absolutely not "fixed" the problem of dump stats, neither has any other edition of D&D. In fact, 5e rendered Intelligence a dump stat for every class that's not a wizard - because there's no skill points anymore and only a handful of spells and monsters enforce Intelligence saves. So dumping it to 8 on your fighter, rogue or cleric just isn't going to affect you in any way 90% of the time. Saves could have changed that, but they're victim to the same kind of sloppy and lazy design that pervades 5e in general, so Con, Wis and Dex saves outnumber the others massively. Like in every other version of D&D, your attribute selection is going to depend on your class and little else. You could cut stats out of 5e D&D entirely and lose nothing.

 

Pillars' stats are, honestly, bog-standard. Dexterity makes you quick? Check. Perception helps you hit and spot things? Check. Constitution makes you tougher? Check. Intelligence helps with special abilities? Check. Resolve is basically renamed willpower and very niche as usual. The only outlier is Might. Which, again, solves a very specific problem that's present in many RPGs - where strength just isn't going to be useful unless you're a hand-to-hand fighter. And even then, you don't necessarily need to focus on it. Even D&D eventually stopped insisting that every melee fighter be a muscle-bound oaf.

 

As far as inventory goes... the only "realistic" way to handle it would be not to let us carry much of anything. Which I'm absolutely, totally fine with and I sorely miss Witcher 1's inventory that did just that. Or Mass Effect 2 and 3, which just had us equip for missions. But if we are going to hoover up crap from our victims enemies, then carrying around 8 halberds isn't substantially more realistic than carrying 16. It has no rational explanation anyway.

[Abel]

 

If that's your approach to video games, I'm not sure you're going to find many you enjoy. In summary, I have great respect for the effort you put into the characters you make, but I feel like you're really setting yourself up for disappointment when you go that all-in for modern CRPGs.

 

 

Yeah. This one is a good post, thanks. I agree with more or less everything, including the "stubborness'' part ^^. It's just... I loved my character and can't really imagine playing Pillars with another until i've completely exhausted every possibility there is for it in the game. Creating another, with my mind stuck in mode ''hola, avoid casters with low strenght'' (which actually dismisses quite a lot of backgrounds) while considering the one i lost, would probably make me think: ''crap. The other one was so much cooler. Why am i playing this thing now, when i can't even believe the thing i wrote for it?"

 

As for the CRPGs. There is still Wasteland. Truthfully, the Roleplay possibilities are not on the same level as the ones in Pillars (once again this soul/madness (Maerwald) thing had potential), but, at least, i could write a background for every one of my rangers in every playthrough (in the biography tab) and reflect properly who they were on their character sheets. More or less. I can decide that handling heavy weapons require some bulky guys and do it accordingly. And so, i can play it without any kind of frustration. I really wait for Wasteland 3 a lot.

 

Concerning inventory. The IE games took the easy approach regarding that. They added magical bags where you could store many weapons. It's actually a magical item, with an item description, and they can be purchased at stores or found in the game world. They are implemented in the world. I don't care if the explanation for almost infinite carrying capacity is cheap. I can deal with it as long as there is one (which is NOT the case with the Infinite Stash in Pillars).

 

Actually, there is something i tend to think since Icewind Dale 2 (which i could never play past Act 1). And that is my problem is not with Pillars specifically, which had so much potential in so many ways. My problem has always been with the way Sawyer approaches game design for RPGs. Though, i think New vegas is his work too? This game improved a lot of things from Fallout 3. The hardcore mode is actually an absolute ''yes'' for me.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Abel

[MortyTheGobbo]

Concerning inventory. The IE games took the easy approach regarding that. They added magical bags where you could store many weapons. It's actually a magical item, with an item description, and they can be purchased at stores of found in the game world. They are implemented in the world. I don't care if the explanation for almost infinite carrying capacity is cheap. I can deal with it as long as there is one (which is NOT the case with the Infinite Stash in Pillars).

 

 

So how do you explain carrying a dozen weapons and armor sets long before getting a magical bag?

[Abel]

 

Concerning inventory. The IE games took the easy approach regarding that. They added magical bags where you could store many weapons. It's actually a magical item, with an item description, and they can be purchased at stores of found in the game world. They are implemented in the world. I don't care if the explanation for almost infinite carrying capacity is cheap. I can deal with it as long as there is one (which is NOT the case with the Infinite Stash in Pillars).

 

 

So how do you explain carrying a dozen weapons and armor sets long before getting a magical bag?

 

 

 

Probably, the good answer would be: you can't ^^. A forgiving game designer would put one for loot in one of the first areas of the game, though.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Abel

[marimo]

 

I don't know why people always think swords weigh like 20+ lbs but I'm gonna blame Blizzard (and Warhammer I guess). 

 

My issue is less about the weight, and more about most of the weapons people are carting around are 2+ foot long "sticks" of metal/wood that have to be either held or attached to you somewhere.  There's only so many places you can put such things and still fight in melee realistically.  And by "so many" I mean, 1-2 at most.  Daggers/small knives are one thing, can be fit into a belt or some such.  But multiple long swords/maces/axes/spears etc. would quickly get in the way far too much to fight in melee and not get hung up on either the items themselves or the belts & whatnot used to attach them to someone's body.

 

Oh, I agree that inventory systems in games are unrealistic, but I wouldn't want to play one with a realistic system. I was talking about things I see in pretty much every thread about fantasy games and realistic combat, like that you need a ton of muscle to wield swords or that full plate armor is always the best armor no matter what the circumstances are. I don't believe those things and I'm mildly annoyed when I see them. 

[Abel]

Wasteland 2 has actually a cosmetic feature which is really cool regarding this. The game has the good old encumbrance system depending on strenght (which i like) and you can find cosmectic backpacks of different sorts and sizes in game (or create the character directly with one. I even use a trainer to add some of these to the companions you find). These backpacks (which don't improve the encumbrance, they are only cosmetic) range from the huge, luggage like bag, to something that is little more than a pouch.

 

I tend to equip my bulkiest guys with the biggest backpacks, and give them the most cumbersome items (like assaut rifles), because the size of the bag fit the size of the weapons. And i will give little items, like healing stuff to those with little bags. I happen to have lots of fun managing inventories like that (especially since inventory slots are infinite and you don't need to play tetris like in BG). This adds some meaning to the strenght attribute, other than just numbers in fight, like Pillars tend to do.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Abel

[Seroster01]

Oh, I agree that inventory systems in games are unrealistic, but I wouldn't want to play one with a realistic system. I was talking about things I see in pretty much every thread about fantasy games and realistic combat, like that you need a ton of muscle to wield swords or that full plate armor is always the best armor no matter what the circumstances are. I don't believe those things and I'm mildly annoyed when I see them. 

 

We have the same view on "I wouldn't want to play a loot pinata game with a realistic loot system".  My general outlook is have it be either

 

1.) ME2/ME3 style where you outfit your group before missions & lootable objects are collected in very rare/specific situations and aren't large physical objects

 

2.) In the "PICK THEIR BODIES CLEAN, WE'LL NEED THOSE XAURIP TOES LATER!" loot systems: something like the POE stash where you have functionally infinite carry space.  I also liked the Witcher 3 inventory system after a few patches: The re-usable Consumables (all of them) and items used in crafting were basically infinite carry, as they had no weight.  Equippable items & "vendor trash" were the only things that had weight (most of said "trash" could be refined into crafting goods, but were frequently worth more sold to a merchant than the results of refining them, and since you had to pay a merchant in order to refine them...).

 

Edit: I will bring up that Scenario 1 tends to work better in sci-fi settings because a lot of the "loot" can simply be data that you can use to make new/better equipment, whereas medieval fantasy settings the fanciness is usually that the item you found is unique & powerful, not that you found a sword that was made better/different.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Seroster01