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I think PoE2 is an improvement in almost all ways but it does suffer a few problems :

 

-empower and concentration are kind of esoteric. It’s not that easy for a laymen to understand .. especially concentration

 

- I really don’t like what they did with priests and wizards where you’re burning talent points to cherry pick spells. Grimoires help Aloth a little but I vastly preferred the original setup - and I can’t stand that they made some of the skills into spells - like interdiction and grimoire slam and arcane veil - like wtf? Total step down from first game

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There is this thing with micronerfs. Like nerfing Flames of Devotion Barbaric Smash or Penetratic Strike by 5%(from 25% to 20% damage bonus).

It looks petty.

If the ability was a problem, then 5% will not change a thing. If it wasnt a problem, why change it? Pleanty of Rogue and Twin Arrows get 25% bonus in the same time (good for them , cheers). It is even weirder with BleakWaker and 2.5% nerf.

Maybe the intencion was that PoE is turning MOBA and need perfect equal win ratio, or something.

But result is that OE spend extra effort to micro nerf something which wanst a problem, but have not put extra effort to buff some forgotten abillities.

 

If Rogue is totally different story, maybe their abillities should not be so expensive, or they could get Guil on kill at some point.

If ranger is totally different story, maybe their pet should be more resilent or scaling with levels.

 

Charge is good nerf, since the change is significant, and intencion clear. Still ok gapcloser, but less good for spamming.

 

There is a thing with difficulty, gear, levels, and abillities.

As you level up, your build comes together, and you stack crit bonuses.

As you level up, your gear could be much better, like legendary gear, or some regeneration with save bonuses. It adds up.

Even before 1.1 some fight early on could be hard, like Old City Grub, when you dont have so much gear, and build is work in progress.

 

Adding just 2 levels for everything would result that first island will be much harder, but as levels come everything will get easier. Which is opposite of what player want, challenge when you are naked fighter without abillities, and you cant do much about it is not etertaining, since no interaction.

 

Some solution would be if each 4 levels all enemies will get some extra buff. At low levels the extra buff would be minimal or none, but on PotD it will be substancial. So 1-4 levels would be a bit easier and not call for cheese, but after 8 the fun will begun.

Edited by evilcat
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Huh? What the heck is complicated about 'ignore one interrupt'?

It's complicated enough that you didn't seem to notice (?) that you can have multiple layers of concentration for example.

 

concentration_layers.png?dl=1

 

Or that something like the phrase of a chanter can remove ALL layers at once while a simple interrupt only eats up one layer. Stuff like that seems to make things fairly complicated. Then what does prone do? It's described as "more powerful interrupt"...

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Prone is a 1.5 seconds paralyze with no debuff.

 

a Push (for instance Clear Out) is a Prone effect with movement.

 

"Interrupts" are very specific, when an interrupt hits you, you either lose 1 concentration or you lose 1 resource, end your casting animation and start a recovery.

 

Knockdown is powerful because it's an interrupt *on Graze* that adds 1.5seconds to the recovery time. Clear Out is a Push that only interrupts on Hit, so the enemy doesn't lose their resource or recovery on graze, just 1.5s

 

What I don't understand is information such as "0% immunity to Concentration attacks in a 2.5m radius". I think Chanters have an effect like this, prevent people from gaining Concentration.

Edited by Esajin
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I know what prone does. I meant in the scope of "concentration vs. interrupts". Prone is advertised as a better interrupt. How so?

 

That's the thing, it's misleading, prone is not an interrupt. I meant to agree with you and merkmerk73, the Concentration/Interrupt system is obscure.

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Maybe the lash now scales as well?

I believe that's the case.

 

I was dead worried about my templar of berath and ran some combats in 1.1beta: every time I used flames of devotion + spiritual weapon on a even armored enemy, corrode damage was higher. At character level 6, power level 2, Corrode lash is doing 30% dmg on normal attacks. Multiplicative.

 

Btw, empower spiritual weapon has no effect on item scaling of spiritual weapon.

The math has always seemed funky with lashes with the combat log showing a higher number than the percentage would seem to be. Maybe it is because the armor rating for elemental based damage if often lower so it over penetrates? I will look at it more closely later and see if I can figure it out.

 

Druid claw lash got nerfed too, though not as drastically. Not sure if it scales better any better now. Shapeshift in some ways are worse because you not only lose your unique weapon enchantments. You lose all items so scaling is important to get right. Also you can’t really just ignore it like you can a bad summoned weapon.

Edited by Braven
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Frankly, there was absolutely no need to nerf Wildstrike and Greater Wildstrike. It was in a good place. Now it’s not really worth the talent points as you’d do more damage with s unique weapon anyway.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Frankly, there was absolutely no need to nerf Wildstrike and Greater Wildstrike. It was in a good place. Now it’s not really worth the talent points as you’d do more damage with s unique weapon anyway.

 

There was no need to nerf anything shifter related. They aren't very strong. The scaling of their shifted weapons doesn't keep up with the gear bonuses you are sacrificing while shifted, and nerfing wildstrike just further increases the gap.

 

I really enjoyed playing a shift-focused druid in PoE1, but they don't really feel worth it in Deadfire. There are so many better options for a melee-focused character.

Edited by Anoregon
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Frankly, there was absolutely no need to nerf Wildstrike and Greater Wildstrike. It was in a good place. Now it’s not really worth the talent points as you’d do more damage with s unique weapon anyway.

 

There was no need to nerf anything shifter related. They aren't very strong. The scaling of their shifted weapons doesn't keep up with the gear bonuses you are sacrificing while shifted, and nerfing wildstrike just further increases the gap.

 

I really enjoyed playing a shift-focused druid in PoE1, but they don't really feel worth it in Deadfire. There are so many better options for a melee-focused character.

 

 

And the weird thing is, it took them a while to get shapeshifting to a good place in PoE1. Early on, it wasn't very good, and it was only in later builds that they managed to give druids a really distinct feel of being a strong CC/AoE caster who could protect the back line or support the front line when things got hairy. It's very strange that, having gotten it so very right, they'd move away from that.

If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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Spiritshift is not strong now (pre 1.1), the wildstrike is not that strong compared to legendary weapon/ You also lose all your fancy gear from other slots. It is already endangered spiece. With nerfs... it will be "WHY? tier". Why to even bother.

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I'd imagine the easiest way to balance shifters would just be to actually let gear matter, but I'm not sure if that's explicitly a design decision or a code/engine limitation. The current situation is pretty much the worst of both worlds, as shifters can't even benefit from unarmed damage (monk/devoted multiclasses, for example) due to having hard coded form-specific weapons while shifted. It feels like shift forms were just left behind in PoE1 stasis while everything else was re-balanced for Deadfire.

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Shifting and Wildstrike are now a joke.

 

Not far the well named and debated Cipher.

 

For me, this concept works in POE1 because you are virtually one of the best single target DPS of the game (with high speed) FOR 15 seconds.

 

After that, you are far less good. You are forced to be good at the start of the battle.

 

Now, spiritshifting is the worst DPS of all DPS and I am even not sure base druid is not more effective, with a good stuff...

 

So the concept is totally killed.

 

To reduce this screwing, the only solution is to supress the delay after spiritshifting. Frenzy = 0.8 seconds. Here : I think it is arround 3s (Recovery ?) ! (I have not the exact number)

+

Up the bonuses to 20 % elemental + 15 % elemental. You are more dependant of theses bonuses without your legendary stuff. So nerf a lot is very bad idea...

 

And what ? 35 % of damage is too much ? Paladin have far more, himself, Monk have more... All without time constraint WTF...

 

I'd imagine the easiest way to balance shifters would just be to actually let gear matter

 

 

You lose the "essence" of the first proposition of obsidian.

 

It is a pure return of the nature. You are without armor and weapon. You are enraged. Quick... For a little moment.

 

In fact, spiritshifting need to be at 50 % of damage. Like invocation. So the contrary of a nerf at 25 %.

 

Or... perhaps with an approach of level : 

 

Level 1 : 25 % (base 15 + up 10)

Level 20 : 50 % (base 30 + up 20)

 

Need to be strong, violent. Even with a reduced time. For 10s. + INT

 

23s is far too much actually. Nonsense.

Edited by theBalthazar
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Huh? What the heck is complicated about 'ignore one interrupt'?

It's complicated enough that you didn't seem to notice (?) that you can have multiple layers of concentration for example.

 

concentration_layers.png?dl=1

 

Or that something like the phrase of a chanter can remove ALL layers at once while a simple interrupt only eats up one layer. Stuff like that seems to make things fairly complicated. Then what does prone do? It's described as "more powerful interrupt"...

 

 

It also doesn't help that, e.g. Resolute says "gain concentration every 6 seconds" but it seems to only refresh the concentration from resolute and won't do anything if you still already have the concentration from resolute.

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What is the deal with new beckoner, like WHY? Isnt this subclass like very good with summons, and it cost more.

Cant i like play normal chanter then?

What could be done: +1 cost applies only to offensive invocations, making summons cheap, buffs normal, but offensive worse.

 

Spirit Weapon nerfed. (this wasnt that great)

SpiritShift wildstrike nerfed.(this wasnt that great)

Micronerfs with Flames of Devotion, and Penetrating Strike. (this 5% does not change much)

 

Not sure how this makes game better.

Edited by evilcat
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glad i'm on gog and i did not install the patch. if there's a way to install the patch without the balance changes that be great.

Not very good at moding but:

make copy of director: data/exported/design/gamedata/

install patch

copy files items, attacks, abillities (or only some of them)

 

could also make a copy of patched gamedata, in case there is conflict.

Edited by evilcat
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I hope they dont turn this into a MMO style , take the fun out of the game for the sake of balance , i wish they focus more on Bugs , fixing the companions , story , etc ... But thats just me and im the minority ...

 

So much this.

 

I don't mind fixing abilities that aren't working as intended, even if that fix "nerfs" the ability.  But spending time and resources tweaking abilities that are working correctly, e.g. from 25% to 20% or whatever, strikes me as poor prioritization.  This isn't a multiplayer game.  The various classes and abilities do not need to be perfectly balanced.  Any player upset about how "OP" some ability is can just not use that ability.

 

I'd rather the devs have Deadfire correctly recognize my PoE choices, get the companion relationship system to approach sanity, add quality of life features, etc. than endlessly tweak abilities that aren't broken.

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glad i'm on gog and i did not install the patch. if there's a way to install the patch without the balance changes that be great.

Not very good at moding but:

make copy of director: data/exported/design/gamedata/

install patch

copy files items, attacks, abillities (or only some of them)

 

could also make a copy of patched gamedata, in case there is conflict.

 

 

thanks will give that a try!. after looking at the patch notes this seem like a mega nerf patch.

Edited by Archaven
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Looking at the patch notes now, most of the changes make items or abilities less powerful. It might be hard to find out what's actually become better. It's a bit sad seing all my favorite items become less powerful, so I thought I'd cheer myself up by looking at the positive changes. This is just after a quick glance at the patch changes (and playing the beta patch).

 

 

Cool stuff:

- Aloth and Serafen attributes modified, lowered resolve and raised perception Serafen also lost 1 dex and gained 1 might - What are the actual changes to Resolve and Perception, anyone know? Serafen was considered the weakest character by many, it's nice to see him gaining 1 (?) Perception and 1 Might.

- Rogue: All active abilities have +25 % damage (!). This makes a build with a Sneak Attack subtheme (like an Assassin/Bleak Walker MC, Swashbuckler Edér and Scout Maia) even more appealing.

- Ranger (Maia): Animal Companion base penetration increased to 6 Pen for all except the Bird Companion (which did not have Best Of and so was increased to 7 Pen).

- Shields: Shield Quality Deflection values are doubled from 1/2/3/4 to 2/4/6/8 (makes it harder to just give two weapons to Tank Eder)

- Guns: Blunted Criticals lowered from -25% Crit Damage to -15%.

- Modal: Great Sword Modal Acc -15 -> -10.

 

 

Other stuff:

- Rogue: Sap now costs 1 Guile (down from 2). 

- Barb: Reduced Frenzy Upgrades back to 1 Rage cost for Barbarians

- Barb: Flesh Communion has no per encounter limit and has Fast Recovery

- Barb: Barbarian Leap and its upgrades now have a Very Fast Recovery time

- Ranger: Binding Roots and its upgrade Bond Cost 3 -> 2

- Ranger: Binding Roots and its upgrade are now Small AOEs (1.5m)

- Ranger: Twinned Shot 3 Bond to 2.

- Ranger: Twinned Shot to +25% Damage

- Priest: Prayer for the Body from Average Cast to Fast Cast

- Priest: Prayer for the Spirit from Average Cast to Fast Cast

- Priest: Litany for the Body from Average Cast to Fast Cast

- Priest: Litany for the Spirit from Average Cast to Fast Cast

- Priest: Champion's Boon from Slow Cast to Average Cast

- Priest: Salvation of Time from Slow Recovery to Fast

- Druid: All Spiritshift granted active abilities are now able to be empowered.

- Druid: The Moon's Light Range 5m -> 8m

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However:

 

 

Watery Doubles now Join Team rather than Join Party.

Substantial Phantom and Essential Phantom now Join Team rather than Join Party.

Dichotomous Spirits now Join Team rather than Join Party.

 

 

Dichotomous Spirits already weren't all that good; now I'm definitely not gonna bother*.

 

Not sure whether this was fixed for release, but in the beta patch Watery Doubles and the Phantoms were just auto-attacking—which, needless to say, made them completely useless. No idea how they plan on making them useful if you can't control what spells they cast, when, and where. Regardless, you're better casting literally any other spell of the same level.

 

*Oh, wait, I actually am gonna bother since I'm restoring 1.02 files to avoid all balance changes. Except it's very sad that I need to resort to this and miss out on all changes I agree with.

Edited by AndreaColombo

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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