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Aloth: Opinions


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#41
Yria

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Fun fact re: goofiness and not being the sharpest knife in the drawer. If I'm not mistaken Tekehu actually has the highest intellect of all the companions stat-wise (not sure about Ydwin and Fassina, but it's def higher than Aloth's). It really caught me by surprise when I opened his character sheet.


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#42
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I'm going to hatekiss Aloth and then sail off to Yezuha with Rekke in the epilogue while Aloth continues his quest to destroy the Leaden Key.

Haha. I love Rekke too, though I worry about him being a "missionary". That could end up getting weird.
 

And I wouldn't go as far as to say all male companions are goofs. Tekehu certainly is, and Edér was never the sharpest knife in the drawer, but Serafen?

I'd describe them as more questioning of authority. Xoti can be viewed as an exception as she goes against what others of her religion think, but she's so dedicated to that it kind of cancels it out.


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#43
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Not dutiful perhaps, but definitely more serious than most male companions. I don't see these two goofing around much either.

Fassina has potential.

Spoiler
She's a bit of a rebel.


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#44
Aramintai

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Fun fact re: goofiness and not being the sharpest knife in the drawer. If I'm not mistaken Tekehu actually has the highest intellect of all the companions stat-wise (not sure about Ydwin and Fassina, but it's def higher than Aloth's). It really caught me by surprise when I opened his character sheet.

Well, whatever you call it - goofiness/stupid/carefree/careless/flippant, etc. These traits somehow mostly ended up in male companions. Hence op's original question about Aloth liking female companions more - that's because most of the serious/dutiful/"masculine" traits were relegated to them. Hence my opinion that companions writing is rather skewed one way.


Edited by Aramintai, 01 June 2018 - 04:04 AM.

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#45
Yria

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Well, whatever you call it - goofiness/stupid/carefree/careless/flippant, etc. These traits somehow mostly ended up in male companions. Hence op's original question about Aloth liking female companions more - that's because most of the serious/dutiful/"masculine" traits were relegated to them. Hence my opinion that companions writing is rather skewed one way.

 

I agree with that, and their stats aren't displayed that much in their interactions with each other anyway. Just pointing out a funny detail.

 

By the way, Rekke also fits in the "all male companions are careless goofs" picture (and seems to have a somewhat low opinion about Aloth who is too sour to his tastes).


Edited by Yria, 01 June 2018 - 04:23 AM.

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#46
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There does seem to be a general concept of males being more laid back/self confident (at least superficially)/accepting/able to question authority/possibly more capable of empathy? while the females seem to pattern into duty/something akin to zealotry (depending how you see it).



#47
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Haha. I love Rekke too, though I worry about him being a "missionary". That could end up getting weird.


If you pay attention to his dialogue, I think it's pretty clear he is NOT really a missionary.
He was a slacker/rebellious kid who had a bit of a pyro streak and ended up burning down an entire district. As punishment he was stuck on a boat with a bunch of missionaries headed to the middle of nowhere and told to help their mission.
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#48
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Haha. I love Rekke too, though I worry about him being a "missionary". That could end up getting weird.


If you pay attention to his dialogue, I think it's pretty clear he is NOT really a missionary.
He was a slacker/rebellious kid who had a bit of a pyro streak and ended up burning down an entire district. As punishment he was stuck on a boat with a bunch of missionaries headed to the middle of nowhere and told to help their mission.

 

You're right! I admit I just thought it was "weird" and was too lazy to invest the effort to think :D



#49
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Fassina comes out with some pretty hilarious comments on Arkemyr, and leaving him kind of suggests she's not that dutiful (as well as some other snippets you pick up about her). Ydwin - dedicated to her studies yes, but pretty into the whole experimental stuff. She seems more independent than "dutiful" to me.

Not dutiful perhaps, but definitely more serious than most male companions. I don't see these two goofing around much either.

 

I dunno if I'd call Ydwin "dutiful" or "overly serious" myself . She's more of an rogue "wild card" animancer hell-bent on survival, given her backstory. She's "dutiful" only beacuse she doesn't wish to hurt anyone with her research. Hurting herself is a different matter. And she can definately take a joke and dish one out too. Her sense of humour is rather subdued, but she's definately not a humorless stick-in-the-mud like for instance Pallegina. Literally first thing she does when she meets you is to gush about Old Vailian fashion and her tailoring hobby like an overexcited schoolgirl. She also likes to sing aloud for no reason when no-one is looking, although she has no singing voice - at least according to Mordwyr. I really wish she was a full companion - she would have been a excellent foil to Aloth.

As for no "goofy female companions" - where does Xoti fit into that? She is at times one step removed from a Looney Tunes cartoon with her childish behaviour. And she clearly doesn't realize the consequences of her soul harvesting due to her blind zealotry - so there goes the "dutiful" aspect.

But I get what you're saying. There is a running trend of "strong female characters" in various media that usually translates into "humorless, stuck-up woman with no strong personality traits or actual flaws - beacuse by God we cannot portray a woman as flawed", while men can be portrayed as flawed and incompetent without a bigger problem.  It's a certain double standard that I wish went away and never came back - beacuse good, complex characters should be just that - good characters, no matter the gender.

...I am going to get yelled at for this post, aren't I?


Edited by aksrasjel, 01 June 2018 - 12:28 PM.

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#50
Knoebroesel

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There does seem to be a general concept of males being more laid back/self confident (at least superficially)/accepting/able to question authority/possibly more capable of empathy?

 

More laid back and confident, that I see. At least in Serafen and Tekehu, considering how it seems that Edér still hasn't found what he was looking for by the beginning of Deadfire.

 

Empathy is also not a given for all. I can see it in Tekehu very clearly, but Edér is probably the least empathic person ever (*that* Iselmyr dialogue, anyone?). :p A shame he didn't learn anything in that regard, as he was already that careless in the original Pillars. I'm also not sure he learned a lesson this time around, so he could certainly use a bit of character development there!

 

I think the companions as a whole are good characters, and interesting to interact with. But it is indeed a bit of a shame that we didn't get a shady/flamboyant female companion to balance it all out better. Xoti is way off the goofy charts, though. :huh: I think of all the companions in all the games, I like her the least. 


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#51
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Fassina comes out with some pretty hilarious comments on Arkemyr, and leaving him kind of suggests she's not that dutiful (as well as some other snippets you pick up about her). Ydwin - dedicated to her studies yes, but pretty into the whole experimental stuff. She seems more independent than "dutiful" to me.

Not dutiful perhaps, but definitely more serious than most male companions. I don't see these two goofing around much either.

 

I dunno if I'd call Ydwin "dutiful" or "overly serious" myself . She's more of an rogue "wild card" animancer hell-bent on survival, given her backstory. She's "dutiful" only beacuse she doesn't wish to hurt anyone with her research. Hurting herself is a different matter. And she can definately take a joke and dish one out too. Her sense of humour is rather subdued, but she's definately not a humorless stick-in-the-mud like for instance Pallegina. Literally first thing she does when she meets you is to gush about Old Vailian fashion and her tailoring hobby like an overexcited schoolgirl. She also likes to sing aloud for no reason when no-one is looking, although she has no singing voice - at least according to Mordwyr. I really wish she was a full companion - she would have been a excellent foil to Aloth.

As for no "goofy female companions" - where does Xoti fit into that? She is at times one step removed from a Looney Tunes cartoon with her childish behaviour. And she clearly doesn't realize the consequences of her soul harvesting due to her blind zealotry - so there goes the "dutiful" aspect.

But I get what you're saying. There is a running trend of "strong female characters" in various media that usually translates into "humorless, stuck-up woman with no strong personality traits or actual flaws - beacuse by God we cannot portray a woman as flawed", while men can be portrayed as flawed and incompetent without a bigger problem.  It's a certain double standard that I wish went away and never came back - beacuse good, complex characters should be just that - good characters, no matter the gender.

...I am going to get yell at for this post, aren't I?

 

I agree with you.  Xoti isn't exactly ungoofy, but her zealotry ends up stuffing her in the Duty Over All Category. However, the sidekicks don't fit into the category, or have the potential not to, so it's a pity they weren't proper companions.



#52
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There does seem to be a general concept of males being more laid back/self confident (at least superficially)/accepting/able to question authority/possibly more capable of empathy?

 

More laid back and confident, that I see. At least in Serafen and Tekehu, considering how it seems that Edér still hasn't found what he was looking for by the beginning of Deadfire.

 

Empathy is also not a given for all. I can see it in Tekehu very clearly, but Edér is probably the least empathic person ever (*that* Iselmyr dialogue, anyone?). :p A shame he didn't learn anything in that regard, as he was already that careless in the original Pillars. I'm also not sure he learned a lesson this time around, so he could certainly use a bit of character development there!

 

I think the companions as a whole are good characters, and interesting to interact with. But it is indeed a bit of a shame that we didn't get a shady/flamboyant female companion to balance it all out better. Xoti is way off the goofy charts, though. :huh: I think of all the companions in all the games, I like her the least. 

 

Eder falls into the category of laid back superficially. His behaviour to Aloth is terrible, but he does have the animal thing going, plus it was usually him in POE1 who was worried about the Watcher, he gives you talks about helping people when you gain rep, obsesses over helping the kid of some woman he hasn't seen in years, etc, so he definitely has empathy, just - not for Aloth. I'm not sure I can even speculate as to why. Possibly he genuinely prefers Iselmyr to such an extent it makes him want Aloth to go away, or he can't handle the strangeness of two people in one and deals with it in that unpleasant way. Or something else.



#53
Yria

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he definitely has empathy, just - not for Aloth.

 

I don't know, he was also pretty rude to Hiravias and Pallegina on occasions too, without even realising that what he was saying was somehow wrong. Also, that painted chicken story from his childhood: even now as an adult he still doesn't really see that the thing they did to that farmer wasn't exactly nice.

 

I think Eder is an interesting example of a good-natured person who at the same time seriously lacks empathy.


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#54
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he definitely has empathy, just - not for Aloth.

 

I don't know, he was also pretty rude to Hiravias and Pallegina on occasions too, without even realising that what he was saying was somehow wrong. Also, that painted chicken story from his childhood: even now as an adult he still doesn't really see that the thing they did to that farmer wasn't exactly nice.

 

I think Eder is an interesting example of a good-natured person who at the same time seriously lacks empathy.

 

I don't remember any of those scenes. Mind you, I usually only cart Aloth and Eder around all the time in P1, so that would be why.



#55
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Eder falls into the category of laid back superficially. His behaviour to Aloth is terrible, but he does have the animal thing going, plus it was usually him in POE1 who was worried about the Watcher, he gives you talks about helping people when you gain rep, obsesses over helping the kid of some woman he hasn't seen in years, etc, so he definitely has empathy, just - not for Aloth. I'm not sure I can even speculate as to why. Possibly he genuinely prefers Iselmyr to such an extent it makes him want Aloth to go away, or he can't handle the strangeness of two people in one and deals with it in that unpleasant way. Or something else.

 

 

Mmh... that is an interesting point. Maybe it's more a certain thoughtlessness rather than complete lack of empathy?

 

As Yria mentioned, he wasn't just terrible to Aloth but also pretty terrible to Hiravias, too, never truly realising how he offended them when he did with his careless actions or words. It is a large part of who Edér is, but seriously, whenever such a thing happens in Deadfire I sigh heavily because I wish he had seen *some* development in that department. ;)

 

Edit:

One example for the Hiravias scenes is that Edér said something terribly racist in one of their dialogues. The next time, he walks up to Hiravias to say sorry, that he didn't mean it... and immediately after that asks Hiravias if he can pet him, like he was a dog. o.o

 

It was a classic Edér, but very much highlights how thoughtless he could be, and insensitive. The buying-Iselmyr-a-drink is also another great example of what I mean.


Edited by Knoebroesel, 01 June 2018 - 05:51 AM.

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#56
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I think it says something about US too, that Eder's ruggedly handsome good looks are enough for us to try and explain away his behavior so it is still "okay" to be attracted to him. :p
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#57
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As an example, we'll use Edér.  If you remember Edér from the original Pillars of Eternity, you may recall that he has a soft spot for animals, has a troubled relationship with his god, Eothas, and doesn't think highly of zealots.  You may also remember that he has an unwitting tendency to express racist attitudes toward orlans.  In mechanical terms, we create tags for the following behaviors/attitudes: Cruel to Animals, Kind to Animals, Pro-Eothasian, Zealous, and Racist.

(The Racist quality isn't in the final game though)



#58
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(The Racist quality isn't in the final game though)


Only because they didn't want to ruin good ol' boy Eder for us by throwing it in our faces.
Anti-racism is a tag for Serafen and Pallegina and they react to it when Eder speaks sometimes.
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#59
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Eder falls into the category of laid back superficially. His behaviour to Aloth is terrible, but he does have the animal thing going, plus it was usually him in POE1 who was worried about the Watcher, he gives you talks about helping people when you gain rep, obsesses over helping the kid of some woman he hasn't seen in years, etc, so he definitely has empathy, just - not for Aloth. I'm not sure I can even speculate as to why. Possibly he genuinely prefers Iselmyr to such an extent it makes him want Aloth to go away, or he can't handle the strangeness of two people in one and deals with it in that unpleasant way. Or something else.

 

 

Mmh... that is an interesting point. Maybe it's more a certain thoughtlessness rather than complete lack of empathy?

 

As Yria mentioned, he wasn't just terrible to Aloth but also pretty terrible to Hiravias, too, never truly realising how he offended them when he did with his careless actions or words. It is a large part of who Edér is, but seriously, whenever such a thing happens in Deadfire I sigh heavily because I wish he had seen *some* development in that department. ;)

 

Edit:

One example for the Hiravias scenes is that Edér said something terribly racist in one of their dialogues. The next time, he walks up to Hiravias to say sorry, that he didn't mean it... and immediately after that asks Hiravias if he can pet him, like he was a dog. o.o

 

It was a classic Edér, but very much highlights how thoughtless he could be, and insensitive. The buying-Iselmyr-a-drink is also another great example of what I mean.

 

Ugh. I cringed reading about Hirvais and the buying Iselmyr a drink scene always makes me cringe.

 

I think it says something about US too, that Eder's ruggedly handsome good looks are enough for us to try and explain away his behavior so it is still "okay" to be attracted to him. :p

YES, why DO we like him so much that the well-meaning teddy bear is the image he generally has with people (including myself). ö



#60
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(The Racist quality isn't in the final game though)


Only because they didn't want to ruin good ol' boy Eder for us by throwing it in our faces.
Anti-racism is a tag for Serafen and Pallegina and they react to it when Eder speaks sometimes.

 

Although Pallegina is racist towards her own self too. Godlikes aren't really a race or species or whatever in the usual sense, but still.






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