Chanters are incredibly underwhelming

[Jmerc]

The Chants and Invocs are ridiculously good though. Take the passives from your martial class, thats not the point of the Chanter, though having 2 Chants active at once with a Troubadour is better than the vast majority of passives.

[Jmerc]

It sounds like the poeple hating on Chanter just skimped on perception, I was AOE-paralyzing everything on POTD without issue.

[Voltron]

Tbf if brilliant gets nerfed the wrong way/"removed", chanters will be really bad single class solo and for multiclassing there is just gonna be a lot of other better options

But I think OP simply doesn't know about brilliant and summons/ccs are not as overwhelmingly good as certain passives (fighter cleave stance, pala defenses, monk swift flurry + rods, heck even driving flight etc.)

 

And that is why I don't auto-patch single player RPGs . If they nerf brilliant I won't patch game till I get bored of Chanter. Even then I might mod it or keep old version of abilities file to replace in patched game.

 

I don't think Brilliant is OP, it's that some abilities that use resources are too strong and cost too little.

[Nemesis7884]

It sounds like the poeple hating on Chanter just skimped on perception, I was AOE-paralyzing everything on POTD without issue.

well companions have the stats they have can't change that

[Boeroer]

That's correct. But is Aloth's, Serafen's or Xoti's accuracy that much better than Tekehu's or Pallegina's?

By the way: I get abysmal attack rolls for my current MC - like... every time. He has the same ACC as Edér - but while Edér hits all the time I *always* get dice rolls below 10. It's really, really suspicious...

Edited May 23, 2018 by Boeroer

[evilcat]

 

And that is why I don't auto-patch single player RPGs . If they nerf brilliant I won't patch game till I get bored of Chanter. Even then I might mod it or keep old version of abilities file to replace in patched game.

 

I don't think Brilliant is OP, it's that some abilities that use resources are too strong and cost too little.

 

I think that is opposite. That some classes has very limited resource pool, so as soon as they could expand it, it is great.

With single class Rogue you could store about 11 guile, maybe more with some items. Your abilities cost 2-3 (the good one). So you can cast 4/5 special attacks and you are dry. Which leaves using 2-3 abilities over, and over again. Or passives, or MC. Also great bonus for any class with unlimited resources.

The solution is to give passives like Guile Master/Grandmastery at level 8 and 9, so classes could build up own resource to use all the cool abilities.

 

With nerfs there are two kind of power:

Regular power, which every class should have at some point.

Bug power, with interaction not expected or desired, like infinite critical attacks, or burning faces without dying.

Edited May 23, 2018 by evilcat

[Shadenuat]

I finally added pure chanter to custom party and tried some spells. I couldn't find a single bad one just by checking descriptions, honestly. Compared to Wizard/Priest feels like cheating.

 

At first I was all like fus ro dah and tactically shoving enemies around, then I got paralyzing shout and now I'm not sure how to lose combat anymore because, uh, I have unlimited amount of paralyzing AOEs.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Shadenuat

[Raven Darkholme]

 

Tbf if brilliant gets nerfed the wrong way/"removed", chanters will be really bad single class solo and for multiclassing there is just gonna be a lot of other better options

But I think OP simply doesn't know about brilliant and summons/ccs are not as overwhelmingly good as certain passives (fighter cleave stance, pala defenses, monk swift flurry + rods, heck even driving flight etc.)

 

And that is why I don't auto-patch single player RPGs . If they nerf brilliant I won't patch game till I get bored of Chanter. Even then I might mod it or keep old version of abilities file to replace in patched game.

 

I don't think Brilliant is OP, it's that some abilities that use resources are too strong and cost too little.

 

I don't think I understand what you mean.

If resources cost too little brilliant is not very strong, brilliant is strong with resource heavy classes.

A nerf for brilliant is important, but it can easily be the wrong kind of nerf, if the  nature of the invocation gets changed/resource recovery deleted the nerf is too strong.

The duration it takes for resources to recover needs to be havily adjusted, 3 seconds is way too quick and op, it needs to be adjusted to something like 10 seconds.

[shamil.a]

Chanters are really good when multiclassed to priest and specializing in chants (not invocations)

You just casting your priest buffs, while maintaining two other buffs from chanting and making a lot of summons to protect your party

Its especially useful in Path of The Damned, with its long fights, because chanters constantly regenerate their "spell points", unlike most classes

[ibanix]

> Chanters are incredibly underwhelming

 

This is the funniest thing I've read so far today

[drchocapic]

Yeah, even without the obviously broken abilities, Chanter (and more specifically Troubadour) is probably one of the best if not the best class in the game as far as I'm concerned.

 

Not only does it have great potential for damage, utility, summons and buffs/debuffs but it's also one of the most interactive classes in the game, making it impossible to "run out of juice" during a particularly long fight. It's an amazing single class and multi-classes well with pretty much everything.

 

In fact, it's so good that I'm having trouble finding another class to main the game with after finishing it with my last Chanter run.

[trashplayer]

 

Tbf if brilliant gets nerfed the wrong way/"removed", chanters will be really bad single class solo and for multiclassing there is just gonna be a lot of other better options

But I think OP simply doesn't know about brilliant and summons/ccs are not as overwhelmingly good as certain passives (fighter cleave stance, pala defenses, monk swift flurry + rods, heck even driving flight etc.)

 

And that is why I don't auto-patch single player RPGs . If they nerf brilliant I won't patch game till I get bored of Chanter. Even then I might mod it or keep old version of abilities file to replace in patched game.

 

I don't think Brilliant is OP, it's that some abilities that use resources are too strong and cost too little.

 

 

Balancing the entire system around one ability vs Keeping the outliner down with the rest, the former is better ofc.

[Taevyr]

Beckoner/priest can be quite broken with high intelligence and the right skills: summon 4 ogres, buff them up to infinity and they'll hold back an army. Add ancient memory and consecrated ground for extra hp regen, the stun invocation for more CC, and you're set for life.

 

For added fun, be a wael priest: free Illusion spells mean you can be in the fray without worrying about armor recovery time, and the free confusion/gaze of the adragan makes you even better at controlling the battlefield.

[Voltron]

 

 

Tbf if brilliant gets nerfed the wrong way/"removed", chanters will be really bad single class solo and for multiclassing there is just gonna be a lot of other better options

But I think OP simply doesn't know about brilliant and summons/ccs are not as overwhelmingly good as certain passives (fighter cleave stance, pala defenses, monk swift flurry + rods, heck even driving flight etc.)

 

And that is why I don't auto-patch single player RPGs . If they nerf brilliant I won't patch game till I get bored of Chanter. Even then I might mod it or keep old version of abilities file to replace in patched game.

 

I don't think Brilliant is OP, it's that some abilities that use resources are too strong and cost too little.

 

 

Balancing the entire system around one ability vs Keeping the outliner down with the rest, the former is better ofc.

 

 

Agree. Fortunately it's Single Player RPG game so I can play it as I see fit, not as developers do (like in online games) .

[Faustus2]

How would y'all rank and rate the subclasses?  Seems like taking no-subclass is the best for multiclassing?

[Voltron]

How would y'all rank and rate the subclasses?  Seems like taking no-subclass is the best for multiclassing?

For pure offensive chanter that will do nothing else well but split damage dealing invocations: Skald. Works best when paired with Fighter or Berserker due to their high Hits to Crit ration. Add all equipment you can for Hit to Crit to stack it and proc more often from Skald Passive. 

 

For being a perfect mix of being party buffer, healer due to long linger and have an option of being almost as good as Skald in using offensive invocations (Skald will be better when min-maxed for crits but that is late game) and better than all other subclasses in being great at using all sort of invocations types- Troubadour hands down. Most flexible and strongest subclass for chanter. You can multi him with anything and he will work great. Fighter, Paladin, Wizard, Priest, Monk- all will work great. You just have to learn how to use his Brisk Recitation.

 

Pure Chanter is imo weakest as I see no point taking pure Chanter if you have Troubadour who is better at everything or taking Sklad if all you want to do is spam offensive invocations.

 

I am not fan of beaconer as I prefer bigger and stronger summons.

 

 

So overall in terms of all their feats and traits I say Troubadour>Skald>pure Chanter=Beaconer. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Voltron

[Palas]

I like the chanter class, but tekehu as pure chanter was a bit disappointing. Most battles on veteran mode were to short, if i used one invocation, then i get seldon enough new phrases to use another one, before the comvat was over. So brilliant Inspiration was quit useless and the phrases are nice, but except that against the charm of the Fampyrs i dont had the feeling, that they make a big difference.

 

Most time Tekehu paralized mob of foes and Xoti (monk), Maia (ranger) and Eder (swashbuckler) (in that order) take them down. My priest of weal was most time good looking, execept against vessels^^

[Nemesis7884]

guess i am doing something wrong then cause on POTD pallegina's invocation as part-chanter hardly ever hit...especially the -armor one since everyone and their mom has fortitude >100.... and if they hit their duration is reduced by 70%

 

I guess chanters work perfectly fine, if you use these sub classes and if you use these stats and if you use these items.... but turning a companion into one hasn't been an amazing experience... it might be different on other difficulty levels

[Tosho]

Chanter is nice, but single class Beckoner is a bit annoying. 

 

All you can do is auto attack and summon once every 30 sec. 

 

It would be nice if a t8/t9 talent doubled summon duration so you can actually, you know, play your character lol.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Tosho

[Shadenuat]

I run skald now with 1 handed perk, stiletto from asassin & best scepter I can find, she casts spells very quickly - I forget to use all phrases I get. Arguably the setup would fit chanter/rogue way better though, but I wanted a big repertoire of songs and invocations to try them all out. The accuracy of invocations does feel even a bit lower than of wizard spells or similar, but you never run out of them and they do affect many enemies and are cast very quickly and are hard to interrupt.

[rheingold]

I gotta say I would rate beckoner higher than skald and on par with troubadour. The summons are fantastic, and though I under why people get bored with chanters I think they are great. Sadly, in my experience, none of the companions make good chanters... as far as I know they can't get the subclasses, or they have terrible stats, and I'm not a power gamer, so I mean really terrible. Best I guess, would be Pellagina as a paladin multiclass.

 

Still love my single class boreal dwarf blacksmith/enchanter/beckoner. (Enchanter as in roleplaying.)

[Shadenuat]

Pallegina with healing chant + healing aura + improved lay on hands is a mom. Nobody ever dies.

[Arnegar]

It's a good multiclass because the benefits are mostly fire-and-forget, but the class in itself is so bland and inactive. The chants are passive, and you get to cast a pseudo-spell (most of which are weaker than ordinary spells for their level) every 18-24 seconds or something like that. It was the same way in PoE1, but then most classes were pretty simple at that point. The chanter class on its own doesn't lend itself to attacking, all it really brings is your passive chants and then an incantation once or twice per fight. That's pretty miserable design-wise, but it's not underpowered simply because there's a few chants and incantations that are really strong.

 

Whenever I play a chanter, I find that half my talent points are just put into something arbitrary because there's nothing I'll use in that tier. Most chants are completely useless because you can only actually use one or two at a time, so you never really have a reason to use any but the best one or two chants. Incantations all use the exact same resource which is gained too slowly to really let you use an appreciable variety of them. Feels like incantation costs should go down as you level up so the earlier ones eventually cost 1 and can be used with some measure of regularity instead of just sticking with your best one. That turns the chanter into a class that effectively has one active ability.

 

Before the second half of the game where everything becomes so easy that nothing matters, the best use of chanters is to sing the regen or +10 deflect song and then do the AoE paralyze incantation on cooldown. Later they can restore resources and stuff, but at that point the game is so trivial that it doesn't even matter. You pretty much choose between Skald for more paralyzes, Beckoner for more summons, or Troubadour for an extra chant coverage. Nothing else is legitimately worthwhile.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Arnegar

[rheingold]

You can change chants during combat, depending on your needs. I find them fun personally , and between summoning or casting invocations they are active enough. The beauty of the class though, is if you want a more active play style you can also multi class. Heck, you can also go single class, going with a troubadour or skald. While it's not the most active class, you can keep yourself busy.

[Ganrich]

Yeah, you aren't reading the Chant descriptions if you think the +10 Deflection or regen phrases are the best all the time. A Troubadour with Brisk Recitation on and the +10 damage shield is choice. 10pt shield every 3 seconds.

 

The Weaken affliction on The Long Night's Drink is terrific. -5 con is good, but that -50% healing is amazing.

 

Flame weapons - nuff said.

 

Dragons Thrashed - its ok.

 

12% lifetap is terrific.

 

+100% healing is broken.

 

Concentration removal is really good in a lot of fights.

 

Then the 3 Resistance phrases are all super helpful. I'm planning a pally MC with those 3 phrases to keep my party so resistant to CC/afflictions it isn't funny.

 

As for Invocations, there isnt a bad one. All the summons are solid to broken. The damage ones are all pretty good with the right accuracy buffs and enemy debuffs. The buffs are terrific. The heal and res are good. Both paralyze and charm are gold. So on and so forth.

 

I have trouble building my Chanters because I see so much value at every level. I have trouble finding bad choices. Everything is good.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Ganrich