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Found 5 results

  1. With the game being released now, I have updated the speed calculator for the current v1.0 version. You can access it here: Attack Speed Calculator version 1.0.3, compliant with Deadfire v1.1.0 Additionally here's the aggregated info on this topic: PART 1: History. And what has changed since PoE1: PART 2: Formula. Or how the speed/time values for attack, recovery and reload phases are actually computed: PART 3: Weapon base values: For v1.1.1: For v2.0.1: PART 4: Action cycle, and phases: For usual weapons action cycle goes like this: For firearms, crossbows and arbalests, recovery phase is substituted with reload phase like this: Reloading is almost the same as recovery. The difference is: - recovery phase is affected by ActionSpeed and RecoveryTime effects. - reload phase is affected by everything that affects recovery; and in addition to that by all effects that specify reloading. - you can start a new action at any time, and reloading will resume when the character has time. While with recovery - you have to recover from previous action first. PART 5: Types of attacks: Weapon attacks can be of 3 types: - Normal (auto-attack) - the character alternates hits with main and off hands. - Primary Attack - the character makes a hit with his main-hand. - Full Attack - if you wield a single weapon, it's the same as Primary Attack; but if you dual-wield you hit with both weapons, in the following succession: The great thing about Full Attacks is that if you dual-wield you can effectively skip the recovery/reload phase of your mainhand completely. And yeap you can chain Full Attacks with something like two pistols, and your mainhand pistol won't require reload. PART 6: Mini FAQ on various related stuff: Q1. How does the math behind Armored Grace work? I don't get how the -25% armor recovery penalty from the tooltip factors in. A: It is a bit convoluted but works in the following way: - the game doesn't operate that much with [recovery_time] penalties for armors; Instead it stores and uses their speed coefficients. - for heavy armors it is: 0.645 (= 1/1.55) - for medium armors it is: 0.741 (= 1/1.35) - for light armors it is: 0.833 (= 1/1.20) Now, Armored Grace increases the armor speed coefficient by +0.1, which becomes: - for heavy armors: 0.745 coef => (1/0.745 = 1.342) => +34% displayed recovery time penalty - for medium armors: 0.841 => (1/0.841 = 1.189) => +19% displayed recovery time penalty - for light armors: 0.933 => (1/0.933 = 1.071) => +7% displayed recovery time penalty P.S. Yeap, tooltip lies. The actual value is 0.1, not 0.25. And it reduces recovery speed penalty, not recovery time penalty. Q2. Is Sure-Handed Ila working as intended for reloading weapons? A: Sure-Handed Ila chant has two components. One that lowers recovery time. And another that lowers reload time. In beta4 all effects that affected recovery now started to affect reload as well. This resulted in both components of Sure-Handed Ila chant to affect reloading time, basically granting you -20% reload_time x2; or in other words +50% reload_speed. [(1/0.8 - 1) + (1/0. - 1) = 0.5 Q3. Feel free to ask. Q4. ... P.S. If you find any bugs or inaccuracies feel free to PM me or post them in this thread.
  2. I've taken a look at how Attack/Action Speed works in Deadfire, and will list the aggregated info in this thread. First of all here are the main differences between Beta2 and PoE1: - weapons' recovery duration (on average) was doubled - but they now have almost halved attacking duration - reloading weapons no longer have recovery phase at all - weapons deal damage right at the end of attacking phase (instead of doing that somewhat in the middle of it) - in PoE1 we could "abuse" Quick Switch and skip recovery of firearms along with reloading. This is not possible in Deadfire even if firearms would still have said recovery. - many PoE1 "+x% Attack Speed" effects were changed to "+x% Action Speed" - in PoE1 attack phase duration was influenced only by DEX. In Deadfire everything that states "+x% Action Speed" affects it. This is minor for weapons (since they have really fast attack), but big for spells. - speed system / formulas / stacking was heavily rewritten - dexterity bonus is no longer multiplicative with other coefficients. All multipliers are now aggregated in additive manner. - and maluses go through double inversion (like in current damage calculation) In practice that results in: if you have many bonuses and let's say 1 malus - that malus will have a much greater effect on the final value. - stacking speed bonuses subject to increasing returns in PoE1; and is subject to diminishing returns in Deadfire. Notes: - it looks like reload duration was decided to be left unafected by the armor type. - Swift Strikes and Frenzy seemed to not affect attack duration in Beta1 (they do in Beta2, and it's now consistent with other "+x% Action Speed" effects, like: potions, bloodlust and dex). Now regarding the formula: phase_duration = base_phase_duration / speed_coefficientwhere: speed_coefficient = steps_sum >= 0 ? steps_sum + 1 : 1 / (1 - steps_sum)where: steps_sum = step_1 + step_2 + ... + step_nwhere: step_n = coef_n >= 1 ? coef_n - 1 : 1 - 1 / coef_n And a concrete example. Warbow has: - 1.1s base attack duration - 3.0s base recovery duration Q: What attack/recovery it will have at 20 DEX with overdraw? > Let's compute attack duration: - steps_sum = (1.3 - 1) = 0.3 - speed_coef = 1.3 + 1 = 1.3 - attack_duration = 1.1s / 1.3 = 0.846s > Let's compute recovery duration: - steps_sum = (1.3 - 1) + (1 - 1 / 2) = 0.3 + -1 = -0.7 - speed_coef = 1 / (1 - -0.7) = 1/1.7 = 0.588 - recovery_duration = 3.0s / 0.588 = 5.1s Result: at 20 DEX and overdraw, warbow will have: ~ 0.8s attack duration ~ 5.1s recovery duration Btw, ever wondered why: - plate armor displays: +55% recovery time - scale armor displays: +35% recovery time - plate armor with armored grace: +18% recovery time - scale armor with armored grace: +6% recovery time ?
  3. Attack Speed Calculator version 1.0.5, PoE v3.06 compliant PREFACE: - When I have just introduced myself to PoE, I quickly noticed that something feels strange. Weapon tooltips are vague. Attack speed bonuses are providing non-uniform gains. Also there have appeared many questions when it came to the build optimizations. If you are interested in attack speed mechanics behind the game facade, than here it is, the aggregated info on this topic. NOTE: - This is still a WiP. Additional sections/explanations will be added over time. BASICS: - One of staple notions in PoE is [action]. Action is character's activity, be it a swing, pistol fire or spell cast. - Every action consists of minimum two phases: [attack] which included the attack animation per se, and [recovery] which role-playing speaking is the duration for your character catching his breath and getting ready for the next attack. - A specific set of ranged weapons, namely: crossbow, arbalest, pistol, blunderbuss and arquebus have an additional phase called [reloading] during which the character reloads the weapon in question. The phases go one after another. And visually a full action cycle can be presented in the following manner: RANGED: MELEE: * As you have noticed there is also a small delay between two actions. Tbh I haven't found any trace of it in the source code, but it's always there when you doing frapsing tests. It has a value of 5-7 frames which corresponds to 0.166-0.233 seconds. Most likely it is related to UnityEngine itself and the way it periodically checks for the events; with 1-2 frame variance coming from stuttering in case Unity was busy with something. BASE VALUES: - When trying to decide which weapon to choose, an important factor is how fast each weapon is. UI Tooltips are not providing the exact values. And those categories are actually quite inaccurate. So: WEAPON BASE VALUES: DRUID FORMS BASE VALUES: ANIMAL COMPANIONS BASE VALUES: Speadsheets: link P.S. If you want to check these base values yourself, feel free to use a simple mod I've made for this purpose. It will print some extra data in the combat log, each time any party member is performing an attack: (it will also 'catch' existing recovery modifying talents/buffs/armor; but unfortunately not the weapon enchants; at least not yet) Installation is quite simple, as it was made to work with IEMod Framework. - download IEMod. 5.1.0-beta Launcher for 2.03.0788 ZIP content preview will suit. - copy the INFOMod.pw.dll in the same /Mods folder, where IEMod.pw.dll is - launch PatchworkLauncher - add the mod in active mods (you can leave IEMod unchecked) - select "Launch with Mods" The dll can be downloaded here: INFOMod.pw.dll Or you can download the project itself: link
  4. From what we know, Obsidian are going to make the inner mechanics of Attack Speed system more transparent and intuitive. Plus things like speed, armor and other recovery-affecting stuff will also start influencing reloading_duration. Source: This made me thinking how exactly could the speed system be improved: 1. the game should clearly communicate all phases of action cycle and stick to the same terminology everywhere. 2. tooltips should specify the correct phase that is getting affected. For example in PoE1, speed tooltip reads "+20% Attack Speed", when in fact it reduces recovery. 3. if the tooltip reads "+20%" then.. it should be +20% (at least in the absense of other effects). And I think this can be achieved even if we don't touch the attack duration. Example: Link to spreadsheet. Pros of this approach: - player can calculate in mind how much will his attack rate get increased from taking x talent or using y buff. - reloading weapons are now fully affected by speed, armor and other recovery-affecting effects. - armor penalty is heavier now, in line with the tooltip values. - reduced gain snowballing when approaching zero-recovery. But this is compensated by the fact that other speed categories are now as important as AttackSpeedMult, and will have higher impact when pushing for the last mile. - flexibility. You can easily change recovery_factor without breaking anything; relative speedup will be the same. You can also make attack_duration getting decreased when recovery becomes negative (i.e. remove the hard-cap), without fear of getting to extreme 0 attack-duration. Formulas: P.S. Few questions regarding terminology: - how would you name the blue phase? In PoE1 it was named "attack" or "totalAnimation" (if in code). But this also refers to buffing/casting animation and potion consuming. - how would you name the green part? - how would you name the yellow phase?: "recovery time" or "recovery duration"? We can't just use the term "recovery", because it will lead to duration <> speed confusion.
  5. I'm currently building a ranged rogue (not an optimal build for rogue or ranged hero I know) and can't decide on weapon specialization class due to confusion regarding different ranged weapons. As I understand it, bows are generally higher interrupt and lower damage compared to firearms (although firearms can pierce Arcane Veil), but what about attack speed and potential upgrades/enchantments? From the Wiki, there seem to be much better unique bows than unique pistols or blunderbusses. Are there any quantitative values for attack speed for each class of projectile weapon? I know firearms have reload time, but just how much slower is it?
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