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Hey folks, this is especially for those of you, who already delved further into the story. From what i'm understanding so far, the whole Watcher/Soul-manipulating thing cries for a cipher or maybe monk, at least something "spiritual"... I started a fighter first and when the whole Watcher thing kicked in, to me it felt like there was no immersion anymore... So i'd appreciate any (no to low-spoiler) hints on what class would make most sense lore-wise. Thanks in advance

What class you think does the best buffs and why? Chanter, pally or priest? - I like the chanter, but don't like summons - Pally would be too busy tanking - If I make a priest it's to heal from afar. Thoughts?

Hi, there have been a hundred topics about that, but I want to ask a more specific question. I played all the IE games and I'm a long time RPG fan. Sadly, I start every new game five times due to fact that I never can decide whom should I play with. I usually go with glass cannon or stealth and with Eternity I widen my choice to those: Rogue, Druid, Wizard, Cipher What I want: - I'll be definitely playing with pre-build characters, not creating my own, because I value their stories - my character needs to be the strongest - and that's not munchkinism! I just need to control the strongest figure if the game to have good reasons for others to follow me. As simple as that. If other guys in my party are more powerful than me than I'm a ****ty leader. - Rogue feels like a way to go, but can it match in power with spellcasting classes? - Is it true that Wizard is in general the weakest of spellcasters? - Is Druid really that powerful and if yes - why? What makes Druid better than Wiz or Cipher. - Cipher seems really fun as kinda darkish magical presence. Does mechanics of Cipher live up to this expectations? - All in all I want a FUN class to play, which for me means lot of micro in game mechanics and character that is bad ass enough to look boldly in the face of death. Advise please.

Short version: Does class have an effect on interactions? Will my character be recognized for the Wizard/Priest/Barbarian he/she is? Long version: I hate classless RPG systems. PoE has a strong class system, which is very good. Now if my character's class has an impact on the story telling, that would be even better. My favorite RPG is Gothic 2, in that game you will have to join 1 of 3 factions: Paladin, Mercenary or Fire Mage (priest). Depending on the faction chosen the whole game changes, sometimes in small ways, other times in a rather important ways. Classless RPG system is the most unrealistic and roleplayingly weakest system any RPG can have. In real life (depending on the culture you hail from) your chosen proffession may have an even greater effect on you social standing (the interactions people will have with you) than your gender, wealth, physical attributes or mental attributes. On the RPG side of things, classless system is only good for action, nothing else. Sure those games advertise that you can be anything you want, but only on the actions side. On the RPG side, you are nothing, not a great warrior, a powerfull wizard nor a divinely chosen priest. You Are Absolutely Nothing.

I excluded Priest from the poll due to the 10 choice limit per question. I figure that as the only true healing class most party's will include one regardless of usefulness. That said, please feel free to tell everyone if the Priest is awesome or terrible in the comments!

I'm thinking: 1: Priest (party healer) - Fire Godlike (for the DT bonus to keep the squishy priest around) 2: Fighter (obvious tank is obvious) - Coastal Aumaua (Resistance to stun) 3: Rouge (DPH and all dat stealth skillz) - Hearth Orlan (dat crit bonus + sneak attack) 4: Wizard (Crowd control and AoE) - Pale Elf (nothing really "screamed" wizard soooo... burn and freeze resist i guess) 5: Paladin (second-liner and party buffing) - Moon Godlike (heals everyone when pally takes enough damage= aaawwww yis) _____________________________________________________________ Would love to hear some feed back on what would make the best party! What about you guys, what's your "power-five"?

I'd like to ask the backer beta players, based on their exp with the different beta builds, and their intution on how the classes will end up in the final build, to make a top 3 list of the most valuable classes, explaining the reasons they find them most valuable. Of course the top 3 will be subjective to one's playstyle (for example someone may manage without fighter's sticky methods, while someone else cannot picture playing without it) and to play difficulty (some classes may shine on hard-PotD, while others may become obsolete and hamper the player), but in general the feedback will be tons of useful to us non-beta players who didn't have the opportunity to play the game. Thank you in advance for your feedback

Being a 2nd ed. AD&D player and fan of old-school crpgs I have to say that Classes weren't balanced, but also that this was not a bad thing. Most Classes were unique in their abilities and were able to act in a seperate ways. Why have balanced Classes in PoE ? The effort to do that may result in a quite similar 11. People who have tried the beta can share their exp & opinions about this.

Hey, everyone. I just wanted to let you know that your Pillars of Eternity team is hard at work fixing up the game based on the bugs you have been reporting. I can't give you an exact date, but we would really like to release the patch next week, if possible. We have been focusing on save/load, pathfinding, AI, and class fixes. When we get the exacts nailed down we will let you guys know. Thanks for all of the hard work you guys have put into helping us with the beta. The extra eyes are invaluable!

Update by Josh Sawyer, Project Director In this, our final class update, we will be discussing fighters and barbarians. Along with the wily, pain-powered monks (covered in Update 52), these three classes form the front line. The front line defines the heart of any battle, where two sides tangle face-to-face. The responsibility of the front line is more than simply dealing damage. It means holding the line no matter what tries to break through. If the party rogue needs a breather, the characters in the front line need to be able to cover her retreat. If a swarm of xaurips descends on the group after the wizard hurls his fireball, the front line needs to be able to neutralize them en masse or absorb their attacks before they overwhelm the entire party. Designed to take punishment and tackle hordes, the front line are the first in and, more often than not, the last standing in any battle. Next update will focus on some brand new creatures that we haven't shown yet, so be on the lookout. Each class holds the line in its own way. As covered in Update 52, the monk absorbs damage to fuel special attacks through the use of accumulated Wounds. These attacks can stun, push, or weaken individuals or small groups around them. While monks have to be monitored to ensure their Wounds do not overwhelm them, they can absorb a large amount of punishment and hamper enemy movement on the battlefield. In contrast, the fighter holds the line the traditional way: by standing her ground, blocking opponents, and being infuriatingly difficult to knock out. Barbarians are designed to jump into the fray swinging wildly. Lacking the accuracy and strong Deflection of the fighter, the barbarian makes up for his lack of discipline through sheer speed, savagery, and abilities tailored for fighting groups of enemies. We've already covered the monk's Wounds and how they play into their use, but the other two front line classes differ in how they stem the enemy tide and how players monitor and use them over the course of combat. To show you how they differ, let's look at the details. If one of Pillars of Eternity's eleven classes is the rock (we'll skip the obvious "pillar" joke), it's the fighter. All across Eora, fighters are known for their discipline, skill, and durability. In the Eastern Reach, they are often employed as caravan guards, soldiers, and personal bodyguards. Accustomed as they are to long marches, strange places, and life on the road, all fighters gain a minor skill bonus to Athletics, Lore, and Survival. In combat, fighters are steadfast and stalwart. Even novice fighters enjoy the highest base Deflection defense of any class and the ability to passively recover a small amount of Stamina every second. As the levels rise, fighters gain access to weapon specialization, modestly increasing their overall damage for all weapons in a specific category. These categories are broader than they were in the Infinity Engine games. E.g. the Knight category covers battle axes, swords, morning stars, crossbows, and war bows. The Peasant category includes hatchets, spears, quarterstaves, hunting bows, and blunderbusses. The selections are designed to cover a variety of damage types, to include one- and two-handed options, and to always feature at least one ranged weapon. At even higher levels, fighters gain abilities to recover Stamina immediately after being wounded, to protect nearby allies from incoming attacks, to knock down groups of enemies, and even to yank enemy passersby into the fray. Overall, fighters are designed to be low-maintenance, reliable, and long-lived even in marathon battles. Here are more detailed descriptions of some of the fighters' abilities: Defender (Modal) - Allows the fighter to trigger Melee Engagement on up to three enemies and increases the fighter's Deflection. While active, the fighter's attack rate is reduced. Vigorous Defense (Active) - Dramatically increases all defenses for the fighter for a short period of time. 1/encounter. Unbending (Active) - For a moderate time, the fighter will recover 50% of lost Stamina from an attack over the 5 seconds following it. This has no effect on the amount of Health lost and does not prevent the fighter from being knocked unconscious from a temporary dip in Stamina from a strong attack. 3/rest. Confident Aim - 20% of a fighter's Grazes are converted to Hits. Additionally, the minimum damage for any melee weapon they use is increased by 25% of the range between the minimum and maximum. Critical Defense - 20% of all incoming Crits against a fighter are converted to Hits. Crippling Guard - When a fighter Hits or Crits with a Disengagement Attack, the target is automatically Hobbled for a brief duration. Unbroken (Active) - This ability can only be activated when the fighter is at 0 Stamina. When used, the fighter will stand back up with 50% of her Stamina. For a short while, her defenses and Damage Threshold are both increased. 1/rest. A QA (Quality Assurance) favorite at Obsidian, barbarians are the wild, unconventional counterparts to fighters. Barbarians need not be from the "hinterlands" of Eora, though the vast majority are. In the Eastern Reach, barbarians most often come from Eir Glanfath, though some can be found in rural Dyrwoodan communities or drifting in from abroad through port cities like Defiance Bay and New Heomar. Barbarians are often used as shock troops for dealing with mobs or simply to intimidate the easily-cowed with their ferocity. As the Dyrwood has settled down over time, the regular employment of foreign barbarians has slowed significantly, but they still make up the majority of Glanfathan front-line forces. Barbarians all have a strong skill focus in Athletics and lesser focus in Survival. While fighters rely on disciplined adherence to proven combat techniques to weather difficult battles, barbarians charge furiously into melee and wreak enormous damage to everyone around them. Barbarians are relatively inaccurate, but every melee attack they make gives them an opportunity to strike out at bystanders. Barbarians have the highest Health and Stamina of all classes, which they need given their low Deflection -- a defense that suffers additional penalties when the barbarian frenzies. A barbarian's Frenzy is one of his most valuable tools, allowing him to dramatically increase his damage output and Stamina for a short period of time. However, in addition to suffering penalties to Deflection, the barbarian's Stamina and Health meters are obscured for the duration. It's not uncommon for barbarians to suddenly drop unconscious -- or dead -- when their frenzies come to an end. Many of the barbarians' higher-level powers shine when they are surrounded by a throng of enemies, outnumbered and often badly-wounded. Even so, they are designed to burn brightly and expire brilliantly in the unfortunate event that a battle drags on. Due to the nature of their abilities, barbarians are a higher-maintenance class than fighters. Carnage - When barbarians hit with melee attacks, they automatically make reduced-damage attacks at all additional enemies within a short distance of the target. Wild Sprint (Active) - The barbarian gains a large movement bonus that lasts a few seconds. While active, it allows the barbarian to ignore the stop effect from Engagement as well as the hit reaction from an Engagement Hit. Additionally, his Deflection is reduced during the sprint. 3/rest. Blooded - When a barbarian falls below 50% Stamina, he gains a bonus to damage for as long as his Stamina is below 50%. Thick-Skinned - Allows the barbarian to take only 1 Health damage per 8 Stamina damage received, instead of the normal 1 per 4 ratio. Brute Force - When finesse fails, barbarians rely on brute force. On any attack that normally targets Deflection, the barbarian will automatically target the enemy's Fortitude if it is the lower defense. One Stands Alone - When barbarians are Engaged by two or more enemies, they gains a bonus to melee damage. They cannot be Flanked unless they are Engaged by more than three enemies. Vengeful Defeat - When barbarians are reduced to 0 Stamina and have melee weapons equipped, they immediately make instant Carnage attacks at every enemy around them. 1/encounter. Heart of Fury (Active) - In a blur of movement, the barbarian performs a melee attack with each equipped weapon at every enemy within 2m. Each attack does increased damage and Carnage applies. 1/rest. Our take on the traditional front line classes attempts to capture the spirit of their Infinity Engine predecessors while introducing some interesting and fun differences for players to experiment with. We hope that you've enjoyed this and all of our other class updates. More importantly, we hope that you enjoy making all the parties you can imagine when the game comes out. As always, let us know what you think in our forums. Thanks for reading. Update #52 - Monk Update #56 - Paladins Update #62 - Ciphers Update #71 - The Heavy Hitters: Rogues and Rangers Update #74 - The Mob Rulers: Wizards and Druids Update #78 - The Leaders of the Band: Chanters and Priests Eternity at E3 Hey, everyone. This is Brandon Adler. I just wanted to give you a quick update about our E3 presentation. Everything went really well and the game was well received by the gaming press. We gave short ten to fifteen minute demos in which we showed off the first few areas and explained the basic concepts of the game. After the demo we had a quick question and answer session and gave any interviews that we could fit in before the next batch of journalists. All in all, it was a grueling, yet rewarding, experience. There have been some questions about why we chose to do a closed door demo for the press and have not released footage from the demo. While the demo looked great, there are still parts of the game that need more polish before we release videos to the public. In addition, a lot of the demo footage was filled with spoilers and we would like to show off portions that are less critical to the story. Look for a video that shows some non-spoiler, polished gameplay sometime in the next couple of months. If you would like to learn more about the demo and what was shown, take a read through some of these great articles: GameCrate Joystiq Kotaku PC World Polygon The Escapist Kicking it Forward: Harbour Our friends at Tasty Minstrel Games have a new Kickstarter that needs your support. Harbour is a light-hearted fantasy board game where you and your friends play as ambitious entrepreneurs in a bustling port city. Play as one of the many colorful characters as you buy property, sell goods, manipulate market prices - and at times break the rules.

I would first like to say hello to everyone. I've been lurking around the forums for a long time but I've only made a few posts. I thought that a party composition discussion would be interesting now that we have all of our class updates out of the way. In the IE games my PC would usually be on the front line as a fighter, paladin, multi cleric/fighter, or something along those lines. So I was really looking forward to update 80. How do you think paladins will compare to fighters in a tanking role? A damage role? Do we know if the Paladin abilities such as coordinated attacks, zealous march, and inspiring triumph will stack if more than one paladin is in range? If these abilities do stack would it be better to have a few paladins in a group working off of each other rather than having a mixture of other classes on the front line? For my first party I was considering having 2 paladins and a barbarian up front. If the barbarian's accuracy can be boosted by both paladins then his/her carnage ability might put out some crazy damage. What do you think? Do you have any other ideas for possible synergies? I'm sorry if some of these questions have already been answered.

Update by Josh Sawyer, Project Director An agent of Dunryd Row attempts to perceive a "housed" soul within a piece of evidence. Hello and welcome to today's class update! We'll be discussing some newcomers to the Dyrwood's "magic" scene, the enigmatic and deadly soul-manipulators known as ciphers. Read on to learn how ciphers went from being an animancer's theoretical possibility, to the feared foes of Dyrwoodan settlers, to an integral part of Defiance Bay's secret police, Dunryd Row. Cipher Mechanics Contemporary ciphers are fighting casters, like the Glanfathan "mind hunters" who invented the discipline. When engaged in physical combat, they use an Ability called Soul Whip to contact and drain the psyches of their targets. Recognizable by the purple flames that engulf a cipher's weapons, Soul Whip generates a Focus resource that ciphers can use to power their abilities. Though ciphers begin combat with a modest amount of Focus, their more advanced techniques demand large expenditures of Focus. Additionally, repeated uses of even minor powers will quickly drain a cipher's Focus, requiring them to dive into physical combat to generate more. Cipher powers are not limited to mental manipulation. They have abilities that allow them to use a target's soul energy to "leak" and burst into flame, to generate a physical shockwave of that knocks down everyone behind the target, or even to bend back toward the cipher, creating a field of protective energy around him or her. With the exception of Soul Whip, all cipher powers require Focus and a nearby target other than themselves, one with a "housed" soul. In practical terms, this means that ciphers must always target a nearby ally or an enemy with their powers. It is impossible for them to target themselves, a distant target, or open ground. Here is a sampling of some of the cipher's abilities: Soul Whip (Modal) - At close range, the cipher's weapons generate fields of parasitic energy that lash out at a target's soul. The Soul Whip mode reduces the amount of damage caused, but each successful hit briefly lowers the target's Psyche defense and generates Focus for the cipher (attacks Psyche). Mind Wave - The cipher violently intrudes into an enemy's mind, Stunning the target (attacks Psyche) and generating a cone of concussive force behind him or her that can knock down anyone in its path (attacks Fortitude). Soul Shock - The cipher causes an ally's soul to "crack" and violently release energy into the physical world. The resulting explosion of electrical (Shock) energy damages everyone nearby except the target (attacks Reflexes). Psychovampiric Shield - The cipher drains Intellect from enemies and uses it to temporarily increase his or her Deflection. The increase in the cipher's Deflection is dependent on how much Intellect he or she successfully drains from victims (attacks Psyche). Mind Blades - The cipher uses the souls of nearby enemies to generate attacks against the subjects themselves. Each target is attacked once by a slashing "mind blade" which then moves on to the next nearest enemy up to a maximum of five targets (attacks Deflection). Recall Agony - The cipher causes the target to re-experience the pain of a wound moments after the target originally suffered it. The damage is a percentage of the original value, but it ignores the armor of the target (attacks Psyche). Ectopsychic Echo - The cipher and an ally generate a bolt of psychic energy that periodically rebounds between them, causing Crush damage to anyone caught in the area (attacks Reflexes). Cipher Lore Many classes have abilities that allow the user to channel the power of their own soul or ambient soul fragments to produce incredible effects. Paladins ignite their souls to produce auras, wizards draw soul fragments into grimoires to shape and cast spells, and monks use personal suffering to focus energy through their bodies. While these classes often develop abilities that allow them to affect the minds and souls of others, the power is always generated by the user. Feared for their mental powers and extreme hostility, the vithrack were once eagerly pursued by animancers for research purposes. In the field of animancy, which focuses on the study of souls, researchers wondered for centuries if they could develop a discipline or technology that would allow people to connect with the soul of another living thing -- not just reach or strike out toward it. Wizards and priests had developed abilities to overwhelm or inspire the mind, but not to connect with it. Animancers theorized that it could be possible for one soul to reach out and connect to another, but they had no proof. Animancers studied folk legends about figures called Watchers who reportedly were able to see lost souls and perceive an individual's ancestral lives, but claimants to that title were typically charlatans at best or mentally unstable and violent at worst. A few intrepid animancers attempted to communicate with the reclusive spider-like race known as the vithrack. The creatures, obviously of advanced intelligence and extraordinary capabilities, seemed to possess the ability to connect to an individual's soul -- albeit with horrifying consequences. The dangerous nature and rarity of the vithrack combined with their inhuman physiology have still proven to be insurmountable obstacles in understanding how their powers work. Still, the animancers had a few other leads to follow. Over a century ago, during the Broken Stone War, soldiers in the Dyrwood reported wild tales of having their minds invaded, of seeing comrades lose control of themselves, of orlan and elven Glanfathan warriors wielding knives engulfed in purple flames that "cut away" the souls of their victims. The war was a new experience for everyone involved, so many Dyrwoodans dismissed many of the more outlandish tales over time. But over the decades that followed, more settlers reported similar violent encounters with Glanfathan guerilla fighters. In the War of Black Trees, Dyrwoodan animancers confirmed many of these experiences across a wide number of soldiers and settlers. However, with Dyrwoodan settlers in a state of war with the population of Eir Glanfath, the researchers couldn't find many Glanfathans who were willing to talk about it. After the Dyrwoodan revolution for independence, the Dyrwood officially stopped the Aedyr Empire's practice of exploring and plundering Eir Glanfath's sacred ruins -- the practice that had ignited the earlier wars between Dyrwoodan settlers and Glanfathans. In the years that followed, the tribal princes of Eir Glanfath allowed Dyrwoodan animancers to speak with some of their brîshalgwin ("mind hunters"), the elite warriors that had terrorized Aedyrans and Dyrwoodans in past wars. From the brîshalgwin, the animancers learned that Glanfathans had developed mental abilities that allowed them to perceive and contact what animancers categorized as "housed" souls, i.e., souls held within a physical vessel. They initially developed these talents in an attempt to communicate with souls held in the Engwithan ruins they were sworn to protect. When the tribal princes outlawed this practice as disrespectful and dangerous, their councilors advised the princes to turn the efforts of the brîshalgwin towards protecting the ruins and developing new methods of warfare. Standing stones of adra like these were carelessly knocked down by early Dyrwoodan colonists, starting a conflict with the local Glanfathans that erupted into what became known as the Broken Stone War. Excited by these revelations, animancers in Defiance Bay began working with the brîshalgwin, whom the animancers had previously described as "ciphers" due to their mysterious nature. Given Dyrwoodans' general discomfort with the Glanfathan language, the cipher name stuck and continues to be used in everyday conversation. For decades now, the ciphers and animancers have worked together, each generating new ideas and expanding their collective understanding of soul manipulation. Today, Dyrwoodans and foreign visitors from Aedyr, the Vailian Republics -- even distant Rauatai -- have learned and expanded the ciphers' growing field of techniques. Recently, encouraged by the potential the ciphers have shown and dismissive of the superstitious concerns of locals, Lady Webb, a prominent noble and advisor to the duc, petitioned the Dyrwood's erls to create a spy service in Defiance Bay consisting primarily of ciphers. The erls approved, creating what would become known as Dunryd Row, a respected, if somewhat feared and mistrusted, organization that operates out of an old, vine-covered house in the city's Brackenbury District. Though ciphers' powers are still being explored, unlocked, and debated across the civilized world, most people recognize that their abilities hold great potential -- for good or ill -- in the cultures that develop them.

Following on from a discussion in Sensuki's Class primer thread, myself and Malekith both found a dissonance present in the presentation of the Rogue as the superior damage dealer when compared to the Fighter. We both came to the conclusion that this dissonance is present because of terminology, a Rogue presents a certain image of thievery, stealth and misdeeds, while a Fighter suggests an expertise in the art of Fighting. Thus I believe a suggestion thread for alternate Class names seemed appropriate. Obviously this is a personal and biased opinion, and my respectful suggestions are simply that, and I might add that I am aware of being a curmudgeonly old relic out of touch with modern norms. So with the aforementioned disclaimer I present an alternate list of names for the classes which are personally problematic. Fighter: Soldier, Legionnary, Guardian, Defender, Shieldbearer, Warden. Rogue: Assassin, Blademaster, Swordmaster, Weaponmaster, Killer. Barbarian: Dervish, Wardancer, Brave. Obviously this makes the profession of Thief no longer associated with what was previously the Rogue class, but that to my mind makes sense, in Eternity anyone can sneak, handle mechanical devices etcetera. In reality anybody can steal, muggers are not expert pickpockets or particularly stealthy, and thieves do not conform to one role. Please feel free to suggest alternate Class names or deride my misguided efforts.

Hello everybody.I want to tell about the druid class in Project Eternity.How do you think Obsidian can make our beloved class more interesting to play?A big choice of nature powers,shape-shifting,summoning the creatures of mother nature-an ancient treeman is may favorite=). Some things about how the druids can look-good for me=) Watch attached pics.

So, I have the various pieces of PE concept art cycling through my desktop background, and I was looking at the composite shot of the Monk, Wizard, Fighter and Cleric, and I thought to myself, 'I hope we see some Cipher concept art soon'. But this got me to thinking, what visual cues should the Cipher incorporate? I love the wizard designs we've seen, particularly Aloth and the female elf. They're a nice diversion from typical wizard designs whilst still having an inherent wizardliness. The cipher has much less existing expectation to work with, and its closest kin in other settings - psions - often come out looking just like wizards with a 'head' focus. The difference between the look of a psion and a wizard is often that the psion has a headpiece on or is touching their temples. I'd hope PE could come up with some more distinctive visual language to convey Ciphers. So what do people think would make a good look for Ciphers? What existing character designs would you take inspiration from? Is their anything they shouldn't do? I think I'll be playing a Cipher or a Chanter, and there's a good thread already about Chanter influences. My main desire is that they'll be clearly distinct from wizards, and also I'd like to avoid the cliche of lots of (usually blue) glowy floaty light effects. They're cool but they've been done a lot. Just like the wizard designs have shied away from beard-and-robe without turning against it completely, I'd like to see the Ciphers have a bit more uniqueness too.

I am. A new element to branch out of would be a great way to add replay value and something new to the genre. Fire, water, ice, earth, lightning have seen its fair share of use since the ancient greeks first go the idea they made up the cosmos. Well, now that its 2013, how about we draw some information from more current sources understanding? Biology, particle physics, quantum mechanics, there's a great deal of awesome fields of knowledge to draw inspiration for! Why isnt anyone trying something new like this? The setting doesn't necessarily demand it, theres no rule saying a fantasy rpg has to stay with old tropes, neither does it preclude the use of modern science-inspired elements, you can always rephrase them in a way that aligns them with the rest of the arcane world. Yes, i realize some of the "elements" might best be suited as individual skills, but you get my point.

Ok, I recognize that we have a lot of different threads about individual classes or sets of classes. I'd think a major issue is really how each class fits into a role within a party. While the designers have expressed a desire to have flexibility enough where a party can be comprised entirely of one class, it's also been expressed that certain classes will naturally be stronger in certain areas than others. So, I think looking at the system from a bird's eye has some value. I'm going to provide a sketch of what I perceive as class tendencies and their natural roles, and others can add their feedback on how they'd like to see the roles develop: * Fighter: Best tank class. Many strong defense abilities. http://eternitywiki.com/Fighter * Barbarian: DPS Tank. "Rage" or equivalents increase damage output. Weaker defensive abilities than warrior http://eternitywiki.com/Barbarian * Paladin: Support tank. Moderate tanking. Provides buffs. Also provides area of effect damage. http://eternitywiki.com/Paladin * Ranger: Ranged support. Ranged DPS. Weak tanking. Skirmisher * Monk: Weak tank. Skirmisher. Possible light DPS? * Rogue: DPS. Skirmisher. Tactical combat using contraptions? http://eternitywiki.com/Rogue * Chanter: Moderate, passive buffs/debuffs. Versatile supporting abilities. http://eternitywiki.com/Chanter * Cipher: Primary crowd control. Charms to distract and disrupt enemy tactics? Possible secondary skills? http://eternitywiki.com/Cipher * Wizard: Ranged Area of Effect DPS. Moderate crowd-control? Weak tactical combat using contraptions? http://eternitywiki.com/Wizard * Priest: Strong buffs/debuffs. Possible weak/light combat? http://eternitywiki.com/Priest * Druid: Distraction through summons? Possible secondary skills? When the wiki has something, I've included it, but for rangers, monks, and druids, the wiki did not say very much directly about the class. I'm speculating that wizards are more DPS oriented, due to their roles in many other games(project eternity seems conventional in that sense), leaving druids to be a more likely option for summoning. With rangers it's the fighter description that suggests rangers are the strongest ranged class. Additionally, by putting this forward, I am not saying that wizard-tanks, or rogue-tanks are outside of consideration, only that the class will tend to guide a player towards certain builds. I think Obsidian seems to favor flexible classes that can fill many different roles, but also classes that tend towards certain roles. Even if they had another idea, this also seems the most reasonable approach to class builds, to seek to allow a rogue-tank, but to tend to specialize a rogue's talents elsewhere. So, here's what I'm seeing from the current class system: 1) More caster variations than IE. IE tended to only have 2 different types of casters: divine or arcane, where divine types were interchangeable, and arcane types were interchangeable. PE seems likely to have 4 different types of casters: Druids, Ciphers, Wizards, and Priests, each of which going down a different pathway. 2) Because there are too many casters, this also suggests that PE casters are not as obligatory as IE games. So in IE, it's harder to play through without an arcane caster and a divine caster in your party, and it's expected you'll have both. We can't be expected to have 4 caster classes. So, this suggests a vision of different compositions of spell-casters. And maybe a stronger role for the Bard as the guy who can handle more cross-class casting. 3) Possible better specialization than IE? So, in an IE game, a Paladin really only seems different from a Warrior because he can wield a Holy Avenger sword. In this case, specializations seem more likely to be more deeply rooted in the build. 4) More varied combat styles? Because specialization is better, classes are to be treated as more interchangeable, combat is better because there are different ways it can be run. Different buffers to use. Different distractions to use. Different tanking methods. Etc. I dunno, anybody else have thoughts about party builds?

Reading the description, PE's "paladin" is basicly a warlord. A charismatic general. That's it. It really doesn't have the "feel" of a paladin at all. They might as well simply call the class warlord of something else. Of course, you might ask what makes a paladin a paladin? Divine powers? Well, not necessarily. At least to me, being part of a religious order, a brotherhood with oaths and rules to follow - that gives more of a right "vibe". Think Templars on DA:O. They weren't paladins. Yet they felt very much like them.

First of all, is this role even desireable? A scenario: Ragnar and Erule went first down the thick of the forest, shadows all around them. Sparkles of slight light, eyes in the blackness. One of the beasts lunged forward, and as if appearing out of the very shades themselves appeared Orianna and pinned down the beast to the ground by its neck. She whispered some carefully laid words into the beasts ear and shortly thereafter it ran away back to the pack, now leaving each other respectfully and knowingly alone. Later, accidentally falling into the beasts lair, the Wolves Den. At the heart of the pack. Though instead of lashing out and biting, they notice Orianna in the back, huffing and puffing. Sighing as if annoyed but respectfully abides to the "Truce". No words have been spoken, but simply put Orianna's knowledge of the wilds, human to beast, is what allows for such an interaction. ----- What I am suggesting is that the tribe of wolves you slaughtered mindlessly on Playthrough 1 could actually be a sentient tribe of Wolves that you can interact with on Playthrough 2. A Druid or Barbarian too, or a Scholar.

Specifically to the classes. Is there some weapons that just has an "umpf" in terms of fitting with a Class? The Grimoire as an example, Wizard tool. Is there any other items, tools or weapons that just resonate with a class discipline? Would the Barbarian be better with Axes because they like to be up close and personal and hack and slash? Does classes have an innate practice towards one of the weapon disciplines, because they are devoted to it? Unlike this thread "Outlandish Weapon and Armor" that touches "Exotic"/"Magical" weapons/armors, and also unlike this thread "Armor & Weapon Design A Plea Pt 3" which touches "Realistic" weapon/armor... This thread is a homage to the Classes and below I've brainstormed, top of my head. Barbarian = Axes, Clubs, Two-Handed/Dual-Wielding, Rocks (Big, Throwing), Fists, Polearms Chanter = Megaphone-ish, partiture, Jew's Harp, Harp, Guitar, Flute (Blowpipe?), Ocarina, Staff, Poem Cipher = Crystal, Emblem, "Implants" (alchemic potions and needles~injecting magical essence into veins)... I think the Cipher is most difficult to think about weapons, because the Cipher's weapon is the "Mind". Dream Catcher earrings? Enchanted glows that are special to the Cipher? Strings (to be able to do puppetry stuff) Druid = Nature, Staff..?? Fighter = Sword, Mace, Shield, Axe, Spear, One-Handed, Sword+Board Monk = Fists, Staff, Sword?? Ranger = Bow, Spear, Axe, Sword, Rogue = Dagger, Scimitar, Short Sword, Throwing, Gun Paladin = Hammer, Shield, "The Holy Word" Priest = Mace, Gun, Shield, "The Holy Scripture" Wizard = Grimoire, Lantern, Wand, Staff, Dagger Let's try to make a decent list instead of what I've presented, I understand that everyone will be able to wield everything (from my understanding of Obsidians comments) but is a Fighter better with a Sword than a Rogue is? The Rogue can still wield a sword, but initially (as an innate ability because of Class History/Lore) a Level 1 Fighter is better with a Sword than a Level 1 Rogue? True? False? Are some classes better with some weapons, just like some classes have some abilities that other classes don't have? I would like to say "Yes" (granted, I have no clue). That doesn't mean that a Rogue won't be able to equip a Sword, just that the Rogue would be weaker with a Sword than a Fighter to start off with. A Rogue could become great with a Sword, but never quite as good as a Fighter (the Rogue would become good in his own way). Input?

Brainstorm = Cipher ability Hi I've had some thoughts on a system lately and it's starting to form more and more. The only issues with it (until I get feedback from lovely you ) is the Non-Lethal path (which wouldn't get as much combat skill or armor, not in the same way). First of all I've got thoughts on an Experience gain for more than just the Character and/or Out of Combat (coming soon in another issue of the WoT). Here goes: Growth Weapon Experience Sword Level 1 67/500 to Level Up (Caps at Level 5) So enemies, regular enemies, give experience, but only to the weapon you are wielding when taking down enemies. When you gain a level in the Weapon you could gain an "Ability" or choose between 2 (X-COM style). Having a weapon in your Off-Hand levels both that Weapon and your Off-Hand. In essence this is what the Baldur's Gate "experience" really is. Gain experience when you've taken down an enemy, not by slashing. Off-Hand Experience Off-Hand levels in a way which gives you a better Shield-Arm, or a better Dual-Wielding experience. Magic Tools do not grow in Experience in the same way. Off-Hand can be split up into 3 4 5 6 Sections (you know what? Let's just say "Undecided"). Works just like Weapon Experience in that you "Gain Experience in that you are Wearing". If you choose to have 2 Swords you'll get Dual-Wielding Experience, having a Two-Handed Weapon gives you Two-Handed Experience. You can't get Experience for 2-Handed when you've got a Sword & Board etc. etc. if you get Level 3 with a Sword and Equip a Sword on an Off-Hand would give the Sword Experience on the Off-Hand a Penalty (based on Dual-Wielding). If Dual-Wielding is Level 3 and the Sword is Level 3, no penalties, but if Dual-Wielding is Level 2 and Sword is Level 3, the off-hand Sword becomes Level 2. Simple? Magic Wielding works in the same way differently and covered throughout the post. - One-Handed Experience (One weapon, 1 Sword) - Sword & Board Experience (In Essence Sword & Shield) - Two-Handed Experience (Single Two-Handed Sword, Staff is a Hybrid) - Dual-Wielding Experience (Two Weapons, Sword/Sword) - Magic Wielding Experience (Off-Hand Grimoire/Magic Tool, Staff is a Hybrid) - Unarmed Experience (Fighting with knuckles, a Hybrid with a Grimoire) Spell Experience Is different, and based on your Character Level and resources (finding scrolls/buying scrolls at a merchant/Wizard) as well. A Magic Missile would shoot 2 Missiles at Character Level 3. But! Magic Wielding Experience makes Spells stronger and leveling up Magic Wielding could give you 2 abilities to choose from (X-COM style) to determine Effects of the Spell (Fire Magic Missiles? One Large Magic Missile that is charged longer?). Armor Experience The Armor is purely resource based like Spells. But more like a Skill Tree in your Inventory/Equipment screen. You slay a Bandit, you grab some resources to be able to Upgrade your own armor in your inventory (No "Light Armor, Medium Armor or Heavy Armor Skill" <- Based on Character Level). Some Armor Upgrades must be done by a Craftsman in town, whom you must pay gold to Upgrade your Gear. Armor has no Levels entirely, but that [Tier] Armor would have 3 slots that you can upgrade in 2 different ways each (X-COM style). Unlocking more Armor (Higher Tiers) requires Character Level Growth. Finally, it's not like you are going to be able to strap on that guys armor that you just cleaved in half. Character Level This is purely dependent on Questing, "Experience is only gained at the end of a Journey when you Understand it". This level determines the Armor you can wear (Tier 1, 2... 4) Weapons you use (Tier 1, 2... 4) Spells you can cast (Level 1, 2... 9). General Strength Growth. More Armor slots in your Inventory (Helmet, Gloves) a linear simplified License System (FF12). Progression/Summary You have to take down enemies to get resources, taking down enemies makes you better at wielding your weapon and looting enemies gives you better equipment. To be able to wear more equipment, or better equipment, you have to do Quests to grow in Level. As a Level 1 character you are limited to the gear you are Limited to basically. This system is very combat centric, like every system out there really. Non-Lethal Approach (Feedback and thoughts needed!) Work in progress. This is difficult because from my perspective it is a playstyle, the stealth approach. I would play with 3 party members, max 4, in a stealth approach. Mostly light armor wearing characters, more than that would feel more and more as an "attention" gatherer (Really, 6 party members in a City and specially in a dungeon would gather more attention). Stealth is a difficult matter regardless in a Party-Based game like P:E, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape: Torment. It is doable of course, but designing an open world with it in consideration I believe is very difficult, it's like building one game inside another games. Magic & Tools Next on the list is Magic and Tools of Magic. How do you use Magic and what are the tools for it? Who can use it? The Grimoire of Dark Arts All Magic, Arcane, Blood, Elemental, Necromancy and so on. Needed for the most powerful ritualistic Magic. These examples below portray the "Main Weapon" Strength, the Grimoire is really the Power tool and the Spells within it. Grimoire+Hand would throw spells from the Grimoire real fast, but it would also be weaker than throwing spells with a Wand. Having a Sword in your Main Hand would allow you to cast spells with the sword at a long range but it would really be weak. You could send your Sword (Force Throw) at enemies, enchant the Sword with powerful Magic and so on. * Hand & Grimoire: Arcane, Fastest & Weakest. * Wand & Grimoire: Arcane, Fast & Weak. * Dagger/Sword & Grimoire: Blood Magic. Weak Arcane Magic. The Crystal of the Mind Mind-Magic/Psionic, a Cipher's tool. Usable by a Wizard too. Holy Scripture and the False Word/Song Paladin, Chanter and Priest. Using a Grimoire on a Paladin/Chanter/Priest makes them "Fallen" or "Corrupted" in the Eyes of their Faith. Poems, Songs, Chants, Partiture The Chanter's tool for singing, a Rogue, Monk and a Priest can use it well too. Staff * The Druid's Tool of choice. Strong Elemental Magic, if Staff's aren't necessarily 2-Handed (putting a sword in an off-hand) the Magic would be weaker but the Wizard/Druid could fight close range better. A Grimoire and a Staff would cast slow strong Magic. Only having a Staff on a Wizard would let him cast the strongest Low-Tier to Mid-Tier as well as some limited High-Tier Magic. Mon, Druid, Wizard and Chanter preference. * A Monk could use the Staff to channel Elemental Magic for close range (Hitting the Earth with the Staff sends an avalanche or a rock slide towards the enemy). This is really interesting (IMO) for a Monk because the Monk doesn't necessarily "strike" the enemy but asks for the aid of the Soul of the Land. A horizontal wavering with the Staff could send a Wind Slash at enemies. * The Wizard would use the Staff as a power tool, whilst the Druid uses it as a Naturalist. Using the Nature in combination with their Faith, giving and taking. A Wizard would only take from the land when using Elemental Magic, without giving anything back (Which could give other consequences). A Druid could very much dislike a Wizard holding a Staff. * Chanters use the Staff to vibrate their voices, as if tuning, enhancing their voices and/or in a way to shatter bones and nerves with a powerful verse of sound, vibration and frequency. Metal Staff's purely. With this list went through, could Items determine the Class? Multi-Classing I've got a Fighter, I go through the first prologue area (take down some enemies along the way) I get slightly better with a Sword & Board (not even close to leveling it up, 1/5th of the first level perhaps), got some better gear from the resources I gathered. I get to town, finish the first initial Quest and I gain 1 Character Level (Now Level 2). I remember Obsidian saying something about "Quick fast early levels". I'm in the first town and I've got some gold so I can upgrade my armor at the Craftsman, maybe there is 1 Companion or 2 in this town that I can recruit as well. As the Equipment Screen is like a "Skill-Tree" I choose to go to the Wizard and upgrade my Off-Hand to a Grimoire instead, so now my Fighter is in essence a Fighter/Wizard. I can keep a Shield in the inventory and switch around for situations between Grimoire and Shield. Likewise, if I make a Wizard and I pick up the Sword I suddenly have a Wizard/Fighter. Using the Grimoire in battle and taking down enemies would not give me Sword & Board experience (as it isn't equipped) but instead experience in Magic Wielding. With Items and Equipment being tied to Classes, you could make a Chanter a Chanter/Druid, or a Druid a Druid/Barbarian and so on and so forth. Being able to upgrade the armor accordingly to your "Build". In Baldur's Gate there is a limited amount of experience that you can get, so choosing a Build early is important for the Growth of your character (Unlike TES, where Experience is Abundant and you could become a Master at Everything). Have a great wonderful day And of course... thoughts?

I've been thinking about this question and I have read some previous discussions/arguments erupting due to what I believe are disagreements in what a class should be defined as. The discussion on "Monks" and especially Forton has made me continue to think about this, and I wanted to see what Obsidian has to say on the matter: What defines a class? What makes one character in your world a different class than another character? From the definitions provided, they seem to be descriptions for a career path or a mental state that a character would be. But I can't be sure how exactly you are distinguishing between your classes. Are they distinguished by the skills they can have? By their combat styles? Philosophies or personalities of these characters? Any information on this would be really beneficial to us, the players. The reason I bring this up is because sometimes the distinction between classes are very vague, and often, different criteria distinguishes between classes (as opposed to a singular criteria effective across all classes). It's easy to distinguish between a fighter and a wizard, but the same criteria cannot be used to distinguish between a fighter, a monk, and a barbarian. The same thing occurs with a rogue and a ranger. Monks, especially, are the product of a philosophy fit into a combat style within a specific culture. No other class really is described this way. As I said in another thread, I hope the devs can articulate these distinctions to us and utilize one definition for the word "class" and define their classes by distinguishing between them through that singular lens so that a lot of these arguments between what a paladin or a monk mean can be better understood by us the players. D&D, because it is a game that has evolved through each new edition has had its definitions diluted, corrupted and sometimes made backward-incompatible, has made convoluted descriptions that are difficult to understand. When starting a completely new IP and gameworld, we do not have to work with these adulterated definitions. We should be clear about what we mean.

I don't find a topic for this subject on our beautiful forum. I want multiclassing. Warrior-mage, kenai-mage mage-priest were always my faworite multiclass i pick up. I think that not only i whould like tu play a character with 2 or mayby even more classes. Post your thouts about this. In the terms Multiclasser i mean a person that have 2 or more classes let's say fighter 10 lvl and mage 20 lvl. If you hawe your thouts about multi-class problems than tell as about it. Thank you wery much.

This is all fictive ideas. * Character Creation You start out without any class but you get to put out stat points and get to choose some basic gear. Statistics effects Dialogue, Physique, Intelligence and so on and so forth. * Classes/Advancing A Class is something you find in the game, through a Trainer or through Learning by a book. You are the naked Adventurer without much skill and have to learn everything from scratch. Saga Frontierhas this random effect where there is a chance you might learn a technique in battle. Companions would/could teach you, and help you progress. In another thread we slightly discussed Breathe of Fire III and the protagonists development throughout the game: 1- Starts out like a fart (not really but I don't want to spoil) and he wails his sword closing his eyes in battle. He has no skill and is somewhat of a coward 2- Is more confident after a series of events and begins to learn how to handle the sword and look at his enemy when he attacks them. He has now started to learn how to protect someone else and is very confident. The game presents the Player with a purpose. 3- Time passes, our hero is older, is now a confident Master Swordsman. * Enemies Defines your Weapon Level, in a sense. Basically, the more you take out of one Monster or enemy, the easier they become to take down. When you reach a certain amount (let's say you killed 50 Gibberlings) you won't be stronger against them anymore because you can pretty much glare them to death at this point. Enemies that you have slaughtered a lot could even flee at the sight of you because you've traumatized their Race and you are now an Apex Predator in their eyes. This will also let the Player get to play the game through the real challenges. Bosses would always be unique and thus always difficult, or if you have taken down 100 Humanoid Bandits you might get a petty little +1 Bonus to Damage/Attack/Hit when facing the Bandit Lord (which is rather insignificant on anything but Hardcore-Expert-Deluxe). Fighting enemies would unlock techniques after a while, that works on anyone. Take the Fighter for instance, he might learn a Magic Cleave Attack that sends energy out in a wide arc when you've defeated 34 Gibberlings, which you can use on Tasloi's. * Armor/Advancement The gear you start with is your "core" gear, throughout the game you find upgrades. A leather strap to put over the torso, perhaps an enchantment which makes your skin tougher (if you go the Barbarian route). Shin guards that you can repair and upgrade with new features and new plating and so on and so forth. A more of a Terraria/Minecraft approach (Except without looting and having 10000 components in your backpack). You advance on the fly, you defeat the Bandit then you use his gear instantly to boost your equipment, then moving on (Interactive Experience Points ftw). For Bosses you could get specific loot, Legendary Weapons and such. Armor/Defensive would be it's own "Character" within your "Character". Something that Levels up on its own kind of, or like a "Pet" that you control. I don't know how to explain it but I think you might get what I'm going for. Piece-meal armor that progressively upgrades as you play the game. * Magic/The Grimoire As your "Naked" Adventurer (Much like Planescape: Torment) you find the tools to craft your own Grimoire and go the route of a more Magical character. Using spells makes them better, but you have to use them a lot. A Magic Missile used 10 times might get you the 2 Magic Missile content. Using that 20 times gets you to 3 Magic Missiles etc. etc. If Enemies are fixed (Like in Baldur's Gate, little respawn except during Fast Travel) Grinding spells is going to be like Rest Spamming but worse and totally not worth it for the average/casual player. You would have to dedicate a lot of energy and time just to abuse this (if P:E will be anything like Baldur's Gate). * Dedication and issues I think a system like this would put you on your toes a little bit, it could cause problems if too complex and requires lots of dedication. If I get the Grimoire, if I want to be any good with Magic it would require me to use Spells a lot but I'd be missing out on the Weapon skills or the defensive skills. There are no "Levels", but fixed enemies of fixed strength. * Because I like Trees Having 3 Combat Skill Trees that can be upgraded on to of all of the above: Defensive/Armor, Offensive/Weapon and Magical/Grimoire. * Not addressing any "out of combat" thoughts.

Like above whats Your expectations for the next companion ? You want dwarven warrior ? Orlan Rouge ? We have alrady 5 companions there will be 8 ... what races, classes they should be .... share with us your ideas on these 3 companions