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First I'm not a backer, but I have this game on my focus. (Buying it at release if I think it's worth it.) So my only experience is from reading the wiki and footage from the beta. At first the concept of godlikes has appealed to me, but now I think the effects are to low for "godlike". Now there are only marginal effects. Pro: - few people will love you - small attribute bonus - one unique passive ability Con: - most people will hate you - no helmet How about giving it more impact? The people thing can stay, but instead of small boni it should be big boni balanced out with big mali. So it will add choice especially in combination with the classes. (And thus diversity.) So you can choose a godlike to further increase the strength of some classes (in return to increase their weakness) or balance out weaknesses of others (in return to decrease their strenghts). Easy to add: There could be added a skill bonus/malus, like nature godlike with bonus to "survival" and mauls to "mechanical". Or the fire godlike with bonus to "athletics" and malus to "stealth". Harder to add: There could be some boni to related abilities and mali to nonrelated, like death godlike with a bonus to any debuff ability and a malus to any buff ability. Or the fire godlike with a bonus to any "fire" and "combat" ability, but a malus to any "nature" and "heal" ability that is not fire or combat. This would add to some interessting choices between godlike/nongodlike and classes. For example you can choose to be a fire godlike as druid and therfore greatly improve your capabilities with your spirtform (combat) and the few fire related abilities in extend of weakening most of your other abilities (nature). Maybe the nature godlike is the exact opposite and if you choose to be nongodlike you stay balanced in all your abilities. Maybe add some weak related abilities which the godlike gets regardless of class. So if you chose the fire godlike and mage you improve your "fire" magic but you will learn it's fire abilities anyways or you chose fire godlike and barbarian and miss the boni to "fire" magic, but that may be your only way to gain some fire magic with that class at all. (Ok, it would be OP with the boni to "combat" and the mali to "nature" and "heal" which the barbarian most likely doesn't have anyway, but that is only a suggestion to show what I mean.) TL;DR: Give the godlike more impact (positive and negative) to make it a true choice. Note: I understand why a godlike may not be able to wear "any" helmet, but since you can craft armor yourself why not adding a few non-lootable helmets specifically for crafting and godlikes? If you are allready able to craft a helmet you will have no problem making some holes in it for horns or something individual that fits your own head regardless how "special" it may be formed.

So I wanted to try and make a "useless" combat character and see how well it would do in combat. But what I found out was that my main has a lot more health than she should have. I don't know if im bad at calculating it but it seems to be very wrong. Haven't done other calculations but will trie to look at it later today. Hope this is the right place to post it. My Main Cipher The BB Rogue

I thought it might be a good to collect various bugs with items having to do with either their display or application of stats. I will start it off with: SUPER NAKED LEATHER ARMOR Item - Leather Armor, DT 9, Recovery 1 http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197999391268/screenshot/579031239332359651

I was bored this evening and after glancing across the "Josh Sawyer on attributes" thread and seeing that it's still going I once again started to wonder what method would Josh Sawyer use to make attributes have balance and to remove dump stats. The first thing I did was make a list of the known (unofficial) attribute names Strength - from the RPGCodex Q&A with Josh Sawyer earlier this year, he revealed that at that current state in time, there was an attribute that governed Damage and bonus healing. The reason I think this is Eternity's Strength Attribute is because in other posts he has implicitly mentioned that Eternity also has a Constitution and Intellect attribute. One of the pillars of Eternity (get it) is familiarity. The familar attribute that governs damage, at least, melee damage in most games is Strength and since all damage is governed by one attribute and Josh Sawyer has explicitly stated that his attribute design is not simulationist and people may find it weird, I believe Strength to be the most likely name for that attribute and I even think that Josh said that there was an attribute called Strength somewhere recently, but did not say what it did. Unnamed Attribute - from the RPGCodex Q&A with Josh Sawyer earlier this year Josh Sawyer mentioned that an Attribute governed Accuracy. He did not mention that the attribute governed anything else, it is possible that something has been added with Accuracy to make an Attribute or the Attribute only governs Accuracy. Constitution - Josh Sawyer mentioned this Attribute in a post somewhere, it might have been on here, or on Something Awful. I will not bother linking it but if you do a search, you will likely find it. It is also possible, but unlikely that it was named in an interview - but if my memory serves it was a forum post. We do not have any information on what Constitution does, but I will take a guess later in the post. Intellect - this attribute was mentioned in a forum post as well, possibly in the update thread that revealed the Vithrak. We also do not know what this attribute does. Constitution and Intellect were also implicitly named, not explicitly. You will not see Josh confirm these until attributes are semi-finalized. After reading every single post Josh Sawyer has made since September 2012, and every interview he has done, I think I am starting to understand some of his design principles. I believe that his attribute design revolves solely around 'combat efficacy' - stats that increase the efficacy of a character or monster in combat. I have come up with the following list of combat stats that are (confirmed) or might be related to character attributes, most of these are confirmed, some of these are not confirmed, but are likely. Confirmed combat stats - Damage, Healing, Accuracy, Deflection, Fortitude, Reflex, Psyche Likely combat stats related to Attributes - Hit Points, Action Speed +Damage - increases the the damage of all attacks +Healing - increases the stamina regeneration of a character (assumtion: includes passive stamina regen and maybe gives bonuses from spells/potions etc) +Accuracy - increases a character's chance to hit with all attacks, abilities and spells that explicitly or implicitly target other units. Subdivided into Melee and Ranged Accuracy (not explicitly, but there is a distinction for the purpose of some classes, and probably other things) +Deflection - increases the character's Deflection score which governs a unit's chance to be hit by physical attacks (not sure about touch attacks) +Fortitude - increases the character's Fortitude Defense which governs a unit's chance to be hit by Fortitude attacks such as Poison or Disease. +Reflex - increases the character's Reflex Defense which governs a unit's chance to be hit by Reflex attacks such as Fireball and Lightning Bolt spells (and possibly touch attacks). +Psyche - increases the character's Psyche Defense (same as Will in D&D) which governs a unit's chance to be hit by Psyche attacks such as Charm or Confusion. +Hit Points (guess) probably governs additional Stamina Points and thus Health Points - may not act like D&D and may not actually increase per character level but may in fact be a flat bonus like other games. Also may not be necessary for Project Eternity and actually may be a superfluous mechanic as HP could be governed by class alone, also could simply be handled by Stamina to Health Damage Ratio, but since that is currently a Barbarian exclusive stat, it is unlikely. +Action Speed (guess) - My guess is that there will be a 'stat' that governs Attack Speed, Cast Time and the cooldown (downtime) between when character's and monsters play attack animations and cast animations. The last known information was from a post here on the forums by Josh Sawyer, where he said that attack speed currently (at that stage in time) only affected the speed of the attack animation and not the downtime between them, however he also said that was something that will probably be changed, so it is likely that by release that "Action speed" shortens the downtime between actions in combat. There may also be other 'stats' that are governed by Attributes, but I cannot really think of anything major. Other than maybe Effect Duration I can only think of very specific use cases that could be handled by Skills (all skills in Project Eternity will give a combat bonus to the character) or Talents. This gives me a list of 7 confirmed stats and 2 very likely stats. The Theory This theory assumes that there are at least SIX Attributes because D&D and the IE games had six attributes. That is not to say that there will be six attributes in Project Eternity (Pillars of Eternity now I guess) and there may in fact be more, but six is the likely _minimum_ number of stats based on a specific quote from Josh Sawyer on Something Awful - "No Attribute affects multiple defenses". We get six from an attribute for damage/healing, one for accuracy (which may be tied into something else) and four for defenses. Because of this distinction we can assume that all elements that make up an attack in Project Eternity - Accuracy, Damage and Action Speed are also separated. Following these supposed rules I can come up with the following likely scenario: Strength - Damage, Healing Attribute #2 - Reflex, (Action Speed) Constitution - Fortitude, (Hit Points) Attribute #4 - Accuracy (+something?) Attribute #5 - Deflection (+something?) Attribute #6 - Psyche (+something?) One of the unnamed attributes is called Intellect. I am not sure which one as the attribute system is gamist, so your guess is as good as mine. If the attributes all follow D&D naming conventions and Charisma has been dropped then I would go with Psyche, If Charisma was not dropped I would go Deflection. If Action Speed and Hit Points are not governed by Attributes, then every attribute must control one combat stat except for Strength. The effect of bonus healing from Strength would probably be negligible outside of combat, but it's placement with damage might even be solely to give the Fighter class a reason to bump the Damage stat as it would benefit their longevity in an encounter because they are the only class that gain stamina regen in combat and they are not a high damage dealing class in Project Eternity, other than their efficiency with disengagement attacks. So without bonus healing, taking Damage on a Fighter might be inefficient. If Action Speed and Hit Points are governed by Attributes then I think there is at least one other combat stat that is missing from my list because I cannot imagine Fortitude, Reflex or Psyche to be the only thing goverened by an Attribute unless they are all the only thing governed by an Attribute. In my above example Psyche is on it's own. One thing I can think of that is *possibly* attribute related is Effect Duration. This would be useful for *most* classes as most classes do have abilities and spells that have effects, but the duration bonus would have to be finely granular as to not be OP. As far as I know, the Fighter does not have many abilities that have effects, but Fighters have a low Psyche Defense, so bumping the Attribute that governs Psyche is not a trap choice because it is strengthening that weakness, like a High Wisdom Fighter in D&D. It is also not impossible that every Attribute governs a High Efficacy combat stat and a lower efficacy combat stat, of which case Bonus Healing, Hit Points and Effect Duration (and undetermined others) would be lower efficacy combat stats and Damage, Accuracy, Deflection, Fortitude, Reflex and Psyche are high efficacy combat stats. This would also be in line with Josh Sawyer's fixation for unified mechanics, but it is possible that Accuracy and Deflection have a higher weight than other combat stats in the game, due to Accuracy being used for every single attack in the game and Deflection probably being the most attacked defense. It is also possible that the Character Attributes have the exact same naming conventions as D&D, so we might end up seeing thing such as characters with high Wisdom being more accurate in combat. I would finally like to remind everyone that this is just a theory and much of this information is assumed from the face value of quotes. It is also likely that some of the information in these quotes has now been changed, and that I am basing some of my assumptions of out of date information. EDIT: Changed all references "Stamina Regen" to "Bonus Healing" as per the actual quote on the Damage stat - http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9059

For Wasteland 2, the community had significant impact on what attribute system was ultimately accepted. Is there an attribute system would you like to use? Do you have any suggestions for improving traditional concepts and systems? I for one, would like to see Strength and Constitution to be merged into one (physical) Fitness stat, and Intelligence and Wisdom to be refined into a Reasoning stat. Furthermore, I would like to see Charisma evolved beyond just the ability to interpersonally influence others, but also as reflection of a character's identity, sense of self, and fidelity to it. Perhaps renaming it, Persona. Finally, I've always been fond of Perception stats. I'd like to see Perception apply not merely to detection radius of foes & traps, but of NPC motives, bluffs, and even of magical/metaphysical phenomena. I would also like to see some Deadlands influence. I loved how stats started out average, but that for every character flaw (hinderence) a player chose, they were allowed to enhance another attribute. These went beyond mere numbers, and were both expected and encouraged to be roleplayed. What are your views, suggestions, and hopes for character attributes in Project: Eternity?

Forum search didn't turn up much specifically for this, so I thought I'd start my very first topic. (I got the idea from the Barbarian thread, 8P) What kind of problems and qualities are there in various racial bonuses and traits (sometimes penalties, for balance) from previous games, and, naturally, how could this help determine how to handle them in P:E? Personally, I'm not a fan of the "this race is basically meant to be these 2 classes, and that's it" "bonuses" that are sometimes seen in RPGs. "Sand Elves -- Suffer an inherent -3 to STR, but get 150 bonus mana!" That's basically saying "You want to make a Sand Elf Warrior? *snicker*... okay, you totally can... *snicker snicker*" Really, I don't think the penalties are even necessary at all. I mean, if a Half-Giant gets +3 to STR, then everyone else automatically gives up a +3 STR bonus by picking something other than a half-giant. A Sand Elf with no STR penalty will still always be 3 STR weaker than a Half-Giant. And bonuses shouldn't be quite so narrow, I don't think. Especially in a game based so heavily on souls being a common source of ability power, regardless of class, it's probably much less restrictive (yet still varietous) to grant our fictional, example Sand Elves +10% soul energy or something, which would apply to all classes (still hypothetically, as I have no idea how soul power will mechanically function.) I just mean that the lore would support something like that. Racial bonuses should allow for some kind of benefit to almost any class, even if it's not the same for each one (Just like a common bonus to Soul Energy might allow a Rogue to maintain Stealth for longer, whereas it might allow a Wizard to cast more spells at once, or even target more enemies with the same spell at the cost of additional energy... the mechanics of soul energy could be different for each class.) Similarly, weapon proficiency bonuses should be decently varied, if they exist, so as to account for a variety of class choices. If you grant Sand Elves a bonus to effectiveness with wands, staves, and tomes, you're basically making any non-caster class choices pointless. I mean, even if it's possible, no one's gonna make a Barbarian who runs around dual-wielding wands... So, just thought I'd strike up a communal brainstorm on the matter.

I don't enjoy the idea of being overshadowed by my party members. That's mildly discouraging when they're another class, but when they're the same class it gives you the feeling of "why bother". I do enjoy some ego flattery, after all. Edit: I meant companion characters, obviously non-companion NPC's could be quite challenging

I'm curious. What does everyone expect of non-combat roles? Will they be purely skill-based, or will we have statistics to raise/determine our ability with certain skills? Will they overlap with combat skills? Let's say PE uses 5 main attirbutes for combat: STR - +dmg with melee weps, increase maximum equipment weight AGI - +dmg with ranged weps, +evasion CON - max life, stamina regen rate INT - +dmg with spells, +accuracy with weapons WIS - +max mana Lets say these are all the planned non-combat abilities for PE Sense traps / Awareness Disarm Traps Lockpicking Pickpocket Persuader/Intimidator Sneak/Stealth Alchemy Metalsmithing Leatherworking Research - required to utilize certain books in the game to acquire skills or knowledge, allows you to decipher ancient texts/languages in dungeons, or something Haggling Instruction - able to teach things you know to your companions or NPCs Seduction - differs from persuader/intimidator in that you can be a very ugly but persuasive person (Hitler) Cooking First Aid Should these things scale off your primary stats? I can think of one good reason for this - simplcity. It would be easier to balance a game where there are five core stats and they determine everything. It's also easier for people to pick up and it gives all stats meaning even if you're not particuarly interested in them for class X. However, I can't help but think it's too simple. The problem with a system like this I think, is skills like intelligence and agility (or dex, whatever the final system will be) end up being necessarily to advance/take-up 80% of the skills available. To me, it seems like these skills either need to be independent and be purely feat-based (you have level 5 feat of first aid, which maybe only requires an intelligence of 8 or 10 at most to take, so long as you character level is 15 or something [where first aid 5 is max rank and level 15 is close to max level]) or they need to scale off a second set of tertiary attributes: Charisma Appearance Dexterity Academics Kinesthetics These five attribtues govern nothing about your combat-related abilities and are raised independently (but perhaps they should sometimes interact with the core attributes; ie, when you level up, maybe you can choose between having one extra core attribute point or one extra non-combat attribute point; or maybe you can sacrifice certain combat stats at character generation for more non-combat skills). The idea behind this would be that there would be some overlap. If you get a high Kinesthetics attribute, you can become adept at Metalworking, First Aid, Sneak, and Awareness. If you get a high Academics attribute, you could become adept at Metalsmithing, Alchemy, Research, and Instruction. A single non-combat attribute might also have second-tier effects, ie, if you have a very high Academics score, you can't become a master at pickpocketing, but maybe you can read a book about pickpocketing you find in a store somewhere, and acquire a low level skill for it. Maybe a dextrous person can still become very good a cooking, but not reach master level. Having a mix of mediocre dex/academics might combine to allow you to master cooking, while dex/charisma do not. What are everyone's thoughts on these ideas?

Hey, a new forum to spoil with another tilted poll. So you'll meet potential companions. Do you want all to be equal in their abilities (within their class). Examples are incorrect, I don't remember the stats or levels or characters or stuff. That was largely the case in BG and such, the girl from next door is basically the same as a master assasin you come upon later. Granted, the girl is level 1 and the assasin is level 5 (but so are you and the girl when you meet him). Now this pretty much worked and didn't bother me much at all. All were D&D adventurers afterall. But I kind of would have liked some characters, like a finest swordsman ever, to have had significantly better luck with stat rolls. Where it really bothered me, were NWN2, DA:O, MotB. When I get a humongously powerful blade golem... well I was a bit disappointed it was just about exactly as effective as whatever fighter type I'd have around. Less so actually, given how fighters would have souped up weapons. DA:O, Sten and the Golem. Both are storywise presented as absurdly powerful creatures, yet they don't have anything to show for it. Neither is stronger than just another fighter, the golem is actually pretty weak compared even to alistari. MotB, bear gods and ancient devourer creatures... are just as powerful as any other companion. Now, I understand there's game balance to be considered. If some companions are more powerful than others, there's this minmax need to take the powerful ones. But if I get a demon from hell as a companion, I don't want him to be another Fighter: Level 8 Nor do I want him to be just at the same powerlevel as my childhood sweetheart. Opinions?

Should there be funny (but useful) perks and traits available when creating and leveling your character? And should abnormally low stats/skills (e.g., intelligence) affect dialogue and gameplay in a humorous and not-necessarily-game-breaking way? Finally, should there be items/consumables/wearables that affect gameplay in a humorous way as well? For example, in the Fallout games, there were perks and traits that would give you bonuses (e.g., to defense and bullet resistances) while lowering your charisma (essentially a terminator-like perk) -- or ones that would cause you to leave a bloody mess wherever you went, or ones that gave you bad luck, etc. A couple ideas that would be silly but might still fit within a Project Eternity world might be: A Tarzan-like Attack/Defense bonus for barbarians that fight naked or in their undies (pixelated); can significantly affect dialog options and wandering around a city may cause swift fines and a difficult time talking to anyone, including party members. Depending on charisma and gender, may result in different reception from other characters -- e.g., you may be thrown in jail for indecent exposure. (Idea from here) A cursed trait that affects everyone else around you, but not so much yourself. Similar to 'Jinxed' from Fallout, but essentially affecting others a little more than yourself. This also makes it much harder to recruit and keep companions (either willingly with you, or alive). Can also affect dialog and plot/story options, for example a seer or tribal elder might chase you out of a village or city on account of you bringing bad luck wherever you go. Maybe even a lot of bad luck, depending on how long you stay in a place -- or maybe this could even be rolled into the overarching plot. As for stats/skills, in Fallout if your intelligence was too low, your sentences would be slurred and speech would take a significant hit. Should something like this be present in Project Eternity? Should abnormally low stats/skills affect gameplay, but not necessarily in a game-breaking manner? For example, if you had really low intelligence, perhaps your other party members (the few you were somehow able to convince to join you) would speak more often instead of you for dialog with other NPCs.. or maybe they'd be more likely to scheme against you or otherwise be more likely to try and use your quest to their own advantage? Similarly, perhaps having low-intelligence might make otherwise dangerous encounters somewhat less dangerous -- perhaps NPCs would believe your character too stupid to understand what they are doing, and less likely to try and kill your character or throw them in a dungeon? Finally, should there be items or wearables or consumables that affect gameplay in a humorous (but potentially useful) way? For example, maybe there's a particular type of food made in the Swamplands of Whatever, which, when consumed, causes the character to smell so badly that their entire party will be forced to follow at a significant distance. Walking into a city square will cause residents to flee, and any attackers with working sinuses will likely hesitate before attacking you, and will always prefer to stay far away rather than be overwhelmed with your 'odor'. Dogs, wolves, and most other normal animals will also opt to run away from you, potentially making it a useful tool when trying to access otherwise inaccessible (or very dangerous) areas. This item might even be part of a quest (rather than something you can purchase in a store).

I'm tired of playing stick thin mages and dumb as bricks fighters. I know, I know, classes must be differentiated to offer a diverse experience and meaningful choices; and if a character is good at everything it utterly destroys this. I agree. At the same time I feel it's unrealistic that a fighter must utterly lack charisma and intellect (See Alexander the Great) and a mage must have never been outside in their life. I saw an interesting idea from a poster on the something awful forums that may offer a solution. Essentially, it amounted to having two entirely separate stat pools during character creation. So for example, using D&D stats (again, JUST an example), instead of dividing points from a big pool between STR CON DEX INt WIS CHA You would have two separate and equal pools (naturally modified by race and class) that looked like this: 1. Physical stats STR CON DEX 2. Mental stats INT WIS CHA Point taken from one pool have no influence on the other. Now you can have your clever fighter, your buff mage, your charismatic ranger, etc. I'd like for their to be even more mental and physical stats to differentiate this more, but most class differentiation would come in the form of skills and talents. You may have a fastidious wizard that insists on a balanced diet and frequent exercise, so he's actually quite strong and not going to be KO'd by stiff breeze; but compared to the fighter that's been in martial training most of his life, he's still very ineffective in combat due to a lack of technique. Fencing is about far more than strength. Conversely, the fighter may be poor in academic matters, but still possess a shrewd intellect and street smarts. This could differentiate characters even within a class. One wizard may have a very high INT score, and a low WIS. You now have something of a savant. Another might have a low WIS but very high CHA, being an excellent if unorthodox communicator. Thoughts?

Hello. Rolling-up a character in the old-skool IE games was fun. As Psychoblonde said in another post, re-rolling stats using virtual dice is fun. Not point buy. Not select-a-character-and-go. No, listening to the theme music whilst drinking beer and clicking to get great stats. Now I know some very serious hard-core types like playing gimped characters as a challenge. More power to your elbow, and if you want to donate those unused ability score points to me I'll happily take them. Anyhoo, on to character generation. It should be fun. It should be a mini-game. Look at the personality test in Jagged Alliance 2. Consider the background rolls for careers in the P&P sci-fi game Traveller. What about those crazy background traits in Arcanum? I don't have a load of answers here, but can some consideration be given to making the process of character generation really, deeply cool in of itself. Give it more love than you'd usually expect. Amaze us. Delight us. Indulge us. Make rolling-up a character so cool that I'd want to do it again just for the hell of it. Stats, character background info (even if it is just for immersion rather than tangible performance), personality info, race / sex / class dealt with in a different way (maybe genders from different classes have different roles in their cultures and you get a comment when you go off-piste), starting equipment, money, appearance... Do NOT make it streamlined and 'convenient' (i.e. dumbed-down), a race to the bottom like, ahem, other RPG developers. What do others think?