[Edér: What happened?]

Not saying I disagree with you. I think Eder was just written in a way that you are not supposed to show much physical affection towards him. Neither bad nor good imho, just is.

That's exactly what I have a problem with: the Watcher in conversations with Edér is written to be somewhat emotionally detached, and this limits the player's options to roleplay their character the way they see fit. It feels like an artificially imposed restriction, like an invisible wall.

[Edér: What happened?]

What what I mean is that they are present in the first place only with companions who can be romanced. You can't hold Pallegina's hand, she'd probably impale you with that sword of yours.

 

I find this limitation artificial. Especially with Edér, because I think if the Watcher had not been restricted to be emotionally cold towards him, Edér would not have felt like there's no place for him anywhere. Besides, if there's an option to ask Edér about feelings, then it sort of implies that the Watcher may have feelings for him too, but you never get to show this in conversations with Edér. It removes the possibility to roleplay your character as romantically interested in Edér. It was mentioned before that the game seems very aggressive about not letting the player romance Edér, and eliminating all options to show any affection for him is part of it. I guess it's because considering how easily he gets attached to people, had the Watcher shown their feelings and that they care about Edér, he could have at least get a thought that dating the Watcher might be a good thing? I mean, Edér wants to have a wife and babies and settle down. In the first Pillars there was a way to roleplay the Watcher as someone who wanted the same thing. Edér would get along very well with that kind of  a Watcher, I think. Was that option blocked because they want to bring the Watcher back in the next game, but don't want to deal with a bunch of Teylecg babies?

[Edér: What happened?]

To be fair, I think fanart's contribution to the commercial succeess of both games wasn't too big. But seeing shippy art displayed and those valentine's cards - it was kind of misleading. I thought that since these 3 characters return, there will be romance options with them if we reach that goal. Because it made sense - we are already friends and all. We have things to talk about, we know each other, etc. And then in the game Edér drops everything he was doing, buys a ship, sails with you across the world. And then some of the companions make shippy comments about Edér and the Watcher? That definitely builds up expectations. And then he goes "nope, never liked you that way, I'm off to adopt that dude, bye!" That kind of feels like a blow indeed.

 

But now I'm also thinking about the Watcher's interactions with Edér. I remember I had an option to hold Tekehu's hand when he was scared or something; there was also an option to wipe the dirt off Xoti's cheek (and ten million options to flirt with her). But you can't even pat Edér on his back in a friendly way. That's just one example. What I mean is that the Watcher doesn't get options to show Edér that they really care about him or are interested in him. I see him discussing things that he feels strongly about with Pallegina or Xoti. Like that he wants to have his own family and children, and that's why he got so excited about the possibility of having a son, and how that is not going to happen. There's no option to be really supportive, even as a friend, show him that he can talk to the Watcher about it, tell him his emotions are valid and you understand, give him a hug. No wonder he doesn't want to date that cold woman. But that's not how the relationship between the Watcher and Edér was in the first game. I rememebr we could have a talk where he was processing his feelings about why his brother fought for Eothas, and we could voice our opinion and influence his life is a meaningful way. This time the Watcher doesn't get any options like that. And the Watcher also doesn't get options to be more light-hearted and maybe even flirty, like with other companions. And I have a problem with these options being denied to the player. Because the way I was roleplaying my Watcher - she'd give Edér all the hugs, bake him a pie and give him a puppy. Just to make him feel really loved and appreciated, even as a friend. She would let him know that he already has a family - that's Watcher, Steward, and Cosmo And Aloth.

[Timeline bug: the second game starts on the very same day as the first one.]

I think I accidentally posted to the wrong forum. This bug was in the game from the start, not in the patches.

[Timeline bug: the second game starts on the very same day as the first one.]

The bug was reported for the beta, but it remains in the game. Haven't seen it among the reported bugs (but I apologise if it's been reported and I missed it)

Here's when the first game starts:

Here's when the second game starts:

The second game should begin around 2828 AI, not 2823 AI.

How to recreate: start a new game, check the date.

[Edér: What happened?]

I haven't completed Tyranny, but I remember Barik and Verse were my favorites. What happened to him?

That's spoilers.

 

Let's say a very brief and very bugged sexual encounter was added, and I definitely wouldn't want anything like that for Edér.

 

 

Regarding reasons for Edér not to be romantically interested: it's one thing if he kept doing what he was doing in the first game, and the Watcher could never bring this up, or if the Watcher brought it up, and Edér said, "Sorry, I consider you my baby sister, and I love you like a baby sister." That's fine. But if we can ask him about his feelings, and he gives this very confusing speech about how he can't move on for 20 years but it's fine? What is this?

 

 

Such finality, like he already decided his life is over, but there is absolutely no reason for it to be over? He's not even old, and his life is not even that bad.

[Edér: What happened?]

To be honest, I am not holding out for the 3rd game on this.

Since this game handled it in such an unpleasant (for his fans) way, I think if the writers cave in to romance in the third game, it will be worse. 

Like Barik in Tyranny. My biggest fear for Edér!

Although Barik at least got his issues resolved in the DLC.

[Edér: What happened?]

I think in the endings where we didn't save the kid he's too unhappy. I bet the guilt will plague him forever, and that's why I will always do my best to save Bearn. He'll grow up and marry and make Edér a grandpa (granduncle?) in a couple of years, and then Edér can go back to the Watcher (I hope).

So I agree there's still hope. I just feel like his potential in Deadfire was wasted, and some of his character development from the first game ignored or oversimplified or retconned. Fingers crossed for more companions stuff in DLCs/future updates.

[Edér: What happened?]

Edér "not being good at committed relationships" thesis is literally based on one line from his short story about getting tired of relationships with women like Elafa or Iselmyr (or even Xoti, I guess, the way she was chasing him and the Watcher ). He acknowledges that he can't be in relationships based on crazy banging for long, that's all. Because they are fun at first, but tiresome.

I could assume that the Watcher has a crazy life, and Edér just wants to puff his pipe and pet all the dogs. There even was a line he throws somewhere early in the game about how you tend to get in trouble, and there's a hint of accusation in it. I'll look for the screenshot. But he never calls it an issue and indeed stays with the Watcher in some of the endings, which means this life suits him fine, and the Watcher suits him fine, and there's only this mysterious issue in his head which he clings to for no reason, and it makes him wait for something, even when he knows he only has one life now.

[Edér: What happened?]

If you think about it, the impossibility of having a family with the Watcher also can't be considered a block, because some Watchers adopted Vela and she's still alive somehow, so some Watchers are probably more or less ok as parents And if Edér really wants children, that's already one daughter, and they could adopt Bearn and live all together. So nope, I'm not buying that as well. The Watcher can be anyone. There might be a Watcher who is pretty much everything Edér has ever wanted

[Edér: What happened?]

I don't think Watcher's creepy abilities are the reason. Because when you ask him what he's feeling for you, he says he actually has a lot of curiosity about these abilities. And he always says that you are great, and he's very fond of you, and very loyal and protective, and you are NOT the reason why he can't fall in love. The reason is that weird explanation about waiting for something that will never happen. And it sounds really weird, because it's like he knows he has a problem, and it prevents him from getting something he wants in life, but he doesn't want to do anything about it. A friend of mine said that it's like he's deliberately building walls around himself, but it's never explained why he does that.

[Edér: What happened?]

I figured Edér wanted a family. That's pretty much what his short story was about. And that's what I find odd, because he clearly considers the Watcher (male, female, Orlan, Godlike, whatever) to be his family. He drops everything he was doing, digs out the Watcher and sails across the world for a faint chance that maybe it will help his friend not to die. You don't do that kind of thing for just anybody. And later he admits that this relationship is closer to anything he had in a very long time. But the way he repels the romance is pretty much this: he says that he can't have any romantic feelings, because he didn't sort out some issues from 20 years ago, and he's waiting for some mysterious things that he knows will never happen, but he's set on waiting for them until the next life, which we know now will also never happen, so that reasoning just sounds really bizarre.

[Edér: What happened?]

Yeah, the thing that really bugs me - it's been 5 years and none of your old companions thought to write/visit the Watcher. I thought we were friends, guys

This. Edér was a mayor of a pretty big town, situated on one of the main roads, just a day away from Caed Nua, and the Watcher apparently spent all 5 years sitting in Caed Nua, sleeping like some cursed princess the whole time, never going for a ride, never visiting the neighbours and old friends (in my ending GM, Edér, Durance and Hiravias were somewhere around). That's just so weird that the Watcher had no contacts with any of the old friends.

[Eder Tangent]

Purely for the sake of masochistic curiosity... can you tell him to sod off when he comes crawling back? I have plans for my second run (if I ever get that far... slow bug fixes are slow)... I so rarely play an utter bastard, but I'd kinda like to give it a try since we're in a 'rough' piratical atmosphere here.    

 

 

Watching him "friendzone" an Orlan watcher, then run off to fulfill a fairly selfish flight of fancy, then come crawling back just to be made to slink off again sounds... well.. horrible actually, but also evil, sadistic, and fun mwahaha!!  :devil:

 

No, it only gets mentioned in the epilogue that he comes back to your ship. So you can't roleplay it.

You can kick him out when he tells you "in another life", something like "I don't want to travel with you anymore!" He sounds slightly offended but leaves without much drama.

[Eder Tangent]

Honestly I don't think he isn't interested in Xoti because of her beliefs, more because she reminds him of himself. Also, she is really young. He fought in the Saint's War, she was literally just a kid like 5-6 years old at that time. In fact, other than Aloth (and maybe the watcher), everyone in the party is notably younger than Eder.

He's not that old. According to the strategy guide he was 32 in the first game, so now he's 37. That's not old at all.

 

You can talk to Eder about the quest on the boat afterwords. If the quest goes "badly" he definitely brings it up in party banter and his dialogue at the ending.

 

Oh alright. Must have been a bug on my part then. I solved the quest well and saved Bearn, but never got a follow-up conversation.

 

I wonder if I got the same bug. Sometimes "this character wants to talk to you" icon appears on them, but they say nothing new. The only conversation I got from Edér afer the quest was the one where he friendzoned the Watcher and asked if he should adopt Elafa's kid (who should be about as old as Edér was when he went to war, btw). I told him to leave the kid alone and let him figure out who he wants to be on his own, and he said "yeah I think you are right" and still left in the end to turn Bearn into an "irreverant stubborn hothead". Care bear Edér strikes again. You ruined a good kid, congrats!  

 

I've read about the option that if you make Edér atheist but somehow manage to keep Bearn pious, then Bearn will escape from Edér to live on his own. Which I think is good for the kid. Better than to feed Edér's overgrown sense of obligation. But I didn't try myself to get that ending, because for my Watcher convincing Edér to give up his faith but at the same time convincing the kid to keep his - these would be two mutually exclusive things. Besides, I'd hate to make the kid hate Edér. Edér's great! How dare you hate him, kid? I'd rather keep Bearn on the ship and teach him about explosives, seafaring, and other fun things. He's old enough to be a sailor, he needs a job, not a baby-sitter.

[Request: Make Bearn a sailor please]

He liked me alright. Eothas was my buddy! And he liked Edér too, in the end.

And if he dies - you don't get him. Simple! If he survives - I want to keep him. To be perfectly honest, I don't trust Edér with patenting him on his own. He'll feed him whiteleaf for breakfast or will try to turn the kid into his mom.

[Request: Make Bearn a sailor please]

It seems like an obvious choice. We can have Vela, a little child, on our ship, but we can't keep Bearn so Edér could be sure nobody will prey on him again? And I think it would be healthy for Bearn too to travel a bit, see the world, find out what the gods are up to, learn a profession. Like, maybe he could be a cook? And then Edér wouldn't have to leave in the end. Everybody wins!

So yeah, please let me adopt that stupid kid, Obsidian. And keep both him and Edér in the end.

[The ending feels very underwhelming]

Hm, yes, I like how you explained this. When I finished the game, I was like, "So, I could have told Berath in the beginning to let me die, and it wouldn't change anything?" I didn't feel like I made a difference. Didn't feel like I got anything from doing side quests other than the XP. Comparing to Pillars 1 ending, where you stop the Legacy, and return hope to a broken country, where children are born again because of what you did, Deadfire ending doesn't feel good at all to me. Also there's so little influence on our companions this time, that they feel like some brief acquaintances, not real friends. I didn't feel like I've changed their lives for better or forged meaningful friendships. Their loyalty to the Watcher apparently doesn't affect anything, so what was the point of it? I'd say this is the biggest disappointment since I finished Mass Effect 3. I liked some parts of the game, but overall it felt shallow and unrewarding.

[Xoti flirty no matter what: bug or feature?]

I think she's bugged. She had a huge crush on my Watcher, and I kept rejecting her, because I was in relationship with Modwyr, but in the end I got the epilogue like I stole her virtue or something and then dumped her. What? Unless she did something with my Watcher's body while her soul was away chatting with the gods - nothing ever happened between them!

[Ukaizo: Three missing skeletons]

I assumed it's was Abydon, Woedica, and maybe Eothas. Although I only understand why Abydon is not there. I don't know at which point Magran"burnt" Woedica, but perhaps that meant she destroyed her body. Eothas is the third god who was killed, but it doesn't make sense that his skeleton is not there, because he was killed after the gods gave up their bodies. Unless someone like Thaos destroyed it somehow or the skeleton turned to ashes when Eothas was killed. However Abydon's skeleton is still out there. So I don't know, either a plot hole or a sign that the gods had more fights between them than we know.

[Eder Tangent]

Eder doesn't really like to use his head for thinking though, so its sort of understandable that this whole affair is one giant mess.

And that's what Edér has the Watcher for! Imo sending Bearn to become an apprentice of some craftsman somewhere in Neketaka, or to learn medicine with the Dawnstars, or to join the animancers - it all would be better, because he needs the kind of environment where he could grow on his own, make friends and find out what he wants. Edér, judging from the epilogue, never gave him a chance to do so. For a game which leitmotif is sort of the choice between autonomy and submission, the absence of such choice for Edér's quest is disappointing and makes it look incomplete or not very well-thought-out.

[Eder Tangent]

I agree with Midian13. It's really disappointing that you can't influence Edér in any way, like in the first game. I told him after his quest to leave that kid alone and let him make his own mistakes and figure out what he wants. Apparently it didn't affect the epilogue at all, because he ended up camping on Elafa's grave and raising her kid to be like Edér remembers Elafa was, which, in my opinion, is unhealthy for both Edér and Bearn, and I bet it's not what she wanted. I wish I could have a talk with Edér about how to do parenting right, because it looks like he ruined the guy's personality to satisfy his own nostalgia. If nothing my Watcher says or does can influence the outcome of the quest, then what's the point of that quest? Should I let Bearn die next time to make Edér move on? Just because the option to talk with Edér about what he really wants in life is absent?

[Eder Tangent]

Hm, the short story mentioned that Edér is fully aware that he has a type (like Elafa, Iselmyr), but he's also aware that he can't endure relationships with such women for long, because he gets tired of it. So I got the idea from that story that this is his type for short term fun And that's why I'm surprised he's so into Elafa 20 years after she told him she doesn't need a relationship with him. The story also implied that Elafa wasn't the only one of that type he ever dated, because he thinks to himself "it never lasts with girls like that". So why her and not, say, the milkmaid? I bet that one still lives in Gilded Vale and is much easier to find. That's why his quest is not convincing to me.

[Eder Tangent]

I agree. I personally find it odd that Edér is more attached to a woman he last saw about 2 decades ago (especially since the short story makes it look like that has already been dealt with) and to her kid, than to his real friends, who he has strong bound with and clearly cares about very much. Elafa didn't seem that special to him from the short story (though I think she was cool). She left, told him to move on, and he was like "Yeah, whatever, church time!" His claim that he hasn't had any romantic relationships for ages kind of contradicts what he says in the first game, about ladies he courted, some milkmaid, the Pallid Knight even? Even his interest in Iselmyr. I understand he was joking a lot about his personal life, but he never seemed like a one true dead love kind of guy to me. But if he's into dead ladies, the Watcher should be exactly his type I'm still hoping he'll sort out his issues in some DLC, but it wouldn't undo his quest, which is really disappointing already.

[Edér: What happened?]

I never thought like an important part of Pillars plot got stuck into those short stories. They felt like little illustrations of what the characters were like. Edér's story seemed at the time like an illustration of such traits of his as loyalty, his sense of obligation, his religious views. Elafa didn't seem like a big deal too, just a girl he once dated but it didn't last long. And then he returned from the war lonely and confused, and she was a familiar face, and they found a bit of comfort in each other for an evening. I never could imagine she would resurface 20 years later as the love of his life or something. I was ok with his quest at first, thought he was driven by nostalgia, and then a possibility of being a father. But I expected we'd find her alive and she would once again explain to Edér that she has changed and moved on, and he better do the same, because you can't enter the same water twice. Instead she got killed off, and Edér got stuck forever with his issues. I think he deserved better. And Elafa too deserved better than to be a source of his eternal angst. She seemed like a pretty cool lady from the story, and I would love to meet her. Her son wasn't interesting at all.

And even with him, it seems like a giant plot hole that after he tells us he wants to join some creepy cult we simply leave him be, only to discover later that he did as he said and sails after Eothas to commit suicide. Surprise! We could have offered him to become a cabin boy on our ship, since we are going after Eothas anyway. The sea would make a man out of him So many missed opportunities! I'm not even speaking about that overused woman in the fridge trope, because enough has been said about it already.

There was also a potential to give him a slow "friends to lovers" romance arc. We rarely get those, and it would have felt fresh. Especially comparing to some companions who jump out of their pants a couple of hours after they first saw the Watcher. Not that it's bad, but love has many faces, no? It would be fun to have something different.

Him being fixated on Elafa, who I assumed was an old story, which was over 20 years ago, is what I think gives me the feeling like 20 years of his life experience were undone. And even the friendship we forged in the first game got lessened, because he says something like he didn't have anyone to talk to, and his old folks didn't know him, and only remembered him as a child. It feels odd because he knew where the Watcher lived, and he never had problems with sharing his thoughts with the Watcher in the first Pillars. I thought we were friends, Edér! Friends are great for such talks And then he leaves everything behind, picks up his comatose friend and sails to the other end of the world. And it kind of feels like his actions and his words don't correlate.